What is the overall best Infantry unit in the game, thoughts?

[Cetra]

after several playthroughs I'm somewhat divided

Which is the better for Sturgia, the heavy axeman or spearman, I know the axeman have projectiles but does that make up for the lack of a spear

and how do they fair against the empires imperial legionary? I find its better to command hold fire so the unit keeps its spear rather then throwing it and only having a sword, does anyone else do this?

I've read somewhere that that empire units do better in normal formation while sturgian troops where meant to be in shield wall ?

[Telerion]

I personally find it wierd to think of fighting skills when it comes to infantery. It is obviously a question how you play, personally i judge the infantry not by the number of kills they get, but for how long they can hold there ground against the enemy. Archers and Cav are the real MVP's.
Sturgian heavy spearman are therefore my most favorite infantry units. In a shieldwall formation they can withstand enemy archers until they run out of arrows with minimal losses. If the enemy Cav arrives, the spears will stop a changing horse in there tracks, and a not moving horse is a dead horse.
In a square formation they get sourrounded while my archers shoot the enemy in the back and there side so i dont have to care about there shields while my own cav can get rid of there archers.
In a direct fight one on one the surgian spearman is crap, but thats not what he was meant to do, his one and only job is to hold the ground and with his big shield and his long spear he does that extreamly well.

The lack of throwing weapons isnt that big of a deal, as they are useless until you micromanage them by holding fire until the enemy is close so they dont try to throw there javalins at enemy horsearchers. And i like to be part of the fighting, so i dont want to sit around and wait for the perfect time to fire at will with some infantry men that are supposed to hold the ground.

But that is just me, and my strategy to fight.

[Cetra]

Originally posted by Telerion:

I personally find it wierd to think of fighting skills when it comes to infantery. It is obviously a question how you play, personally i judge the infantry not by the number of kills they get, but for how long they can hold there ground against the enemy. Archers and Cav are the real MVP's.
Sturgian heavy spearman are therefore my most favorite infantry units. In a shieldwall formation they can withstand enemy archers until they run out of arrows with minimal losses. If the enemy Cav arrives, the spears will stop a changing horse in there tracks, and a not moving horse is a dead horse.
In a square formation they get sourrounded while my archers shoot the enemy in the back and there side so i dont have to care about there shields while my own cav can get rid of there archers.
In a direct fight one on one the surgian spearman is crap, but thats not what he was meant to do, his one and only job is to hold the ground and with his big shield and his long spear he does that extreamly well.

The lack of throwing weapons isnt that big of a deal, as they are useless until you micromanage them by holding fire until the enemy is close so they dont try to throw there javalins at enemy horsearchers. And i like to be part of the fighting, so i dont want to sit around and wait for the perfect time to fire at will with some infantry men that are supposed to hold the ground.

But that is just me, and my strategy to fight.

Fair enough and this is the type of info i was looking for, what units specialise at what, Thanks mate.

[Telerion]

Happy to help ;)

[Gilgamesh]

Fian Champions

[Aven]

I really like the Battanian Wildling line and the Battania troop tree in general. Their Tier 1 recruits have Sledgehammers, which is great for using them as bandit capturing fodder. From Tier 2 on the Wildling line has javelins to help level, Tier 3 on gets shields, and overall they get some decent armor. It's also a bonus that they don't compete for upgrades with Battanian Fians, allowing you to collect both.

[flyingscot1066]

If Vlandian Sergeants actually got the western fullered mace they are listed as getting, they'd be my #1 pick, but they often spawn with swords instead.
So instead, my choice for best infantry is the Imperial Legionaries.
130 skill in 1-hand, Pole, and Athletics, 80 in thrown for when you take them off of hold fire and let them have at with their pilum.
50 head armor
63 torso armor
42 arm armor
45 leg armor
Good large shield, fine steel paramerion.
They have the best survivability in the game for infantry. I like to run a mixed force of Legionaries, Vanguards, and Fians, about a 30/30/40 mix.
That's for field battles. For castle sieges my choice is Heroic line breakers backed up by Vlandian Sharpshooters and/or fians.

[Centurion]

I love sturgian sperman too, but they die too easily because of lack of armor. Most enduring infantary is Legioneries again, because of their armour.

I generaly mix Vlandian sergenants+Legioners+Sturgian H.Spear+Sturgian H.Axeman.
Backbone is Legionaries.

[Morkonan]

Originally posted by Cetra:

...
I've read somewhere that that empire units do better in normal formation while sturgian troops where meant to be in shield wall ?

IMO, having played as a Lord with both factions, they're fairly equitable in terms of overall survivability and performance. Though, expect that to change here and there up to and past release, depending on patches.

I do think the Spearman is a more defensive unit and I also think the Heavy Axeman is meant to be an all-around Heavy Infantry "shock" type of unit, but with much more protection and utility than something like a truly specialized Shock unit. (They're basically there as a recent addition to beef up the Sturgian line.)

Because of the above, I would always suggest a mixture of both. The Sturgian line NEEDS some anti-cavalry and heavy defense units while still retaining offensive capability. You should mix them up for best overall effect. Failing to do this means you're purposefully removing an ability designed to keep your melee capability very strong as well as dangerous for mounted/missile units... Which, is why the Sturgian units were revamped in the first place.

Imperial Units are good all-around Infantry and have some of the best armor in the game. Legionairies are meant to set the standard for "Heavy Infantry" in Bannerlord, IMO, both according to "canon" as well as practical effect.

I don't think there's a good "versus" comparison on paper. You'll have to see for yourself. However, in "versus" between Legionaries and Heavy Axemen, I think the Axemen might edge out. But, Imperial Menavlions are the go-to unit for chopping up heavy infantry and mounted units with support from Legionaries. Legionaries can pretty much destroy anything melee unit of lighter grade than they are while Axemen might be a bit more versatile. (Note: I do remember some instances where Heavy Axemen seemed more prone to being "squishy" but, on paper, they shouldn't be "that" squishy. :))

Again, on the "thrown" secondary weapon, it's situational and how it's used. There's not going to likely be an engagement where all the units do is playing "catch." :)

Note: Imperial Trees/Units seem to be structured around mutual support and specialty units being used together. Sturgian units are nearly entirely reliant on heavy infantry formation fighting and brute force "take a step, kill, take a step, kill, rinse/repeat." Sturgians are very dangerous for any army that decides to get "close" to them. Imperial units make very good "multipurpose" armies.

PS: I don't mix-and-match units, typically... I will take on a few bandit types for "irregulars" as some kind of roleplaying thing, but I try to stick with Faction-specific OoB.

Thrown weapon tactics:

Thrown missile weapons have been janky, again dependent on patch version. Either they're working, not really working, working ineffectively, working great up to the next patch... etc. Some units have shown a reticence to actually use their weapons appropriately, likely due to primary vs secondary weapon AI choices when targeting an enemy unit. (IMO) Keep this in mind between patches and any announcement of TW touching anything to do with Combat AI, weapon vs target choice, and secondary weapons as well as armor values and damage types.

Thrown weapons are tools for shock and disruption. One isn't going to get a sort of volley-fire obliteration of the enemy's front ranks effect from them. (Unless they're garbage tier enemies.) BUT... Bannerlord doesn't have formation disruption rules and the like and subsequent combat penalties as a result. It does, however, have broken shields and big fat horses to hit with them as well as tons and tons of units armored in bathrobes. (Stun effects are possible on low-tier units hit by thrown weapons, though. But, who cares about them, anyway? :))

So, in formation fighting with your line of heavy infantry, who may happen to have thrown weapons, "Hold Fire" is good when you're facing off against other Heavy or even Medium Infantry, depending upon their Shield. If they've got crappy shields (or none!), go ahead and "Fire at Will" to get some damage on those Shields. If they've got good ones, hold fire until you can break that formation up with kills and then you'll be throwing into their backs...

Against light/missile/unshielded troops and trash units, go ahead and "Fire at Will" once they're within what you feel is effective range.

Against charging mounted units, it's a toss-up. Each time they throw they "might" be reducing their defense. I can't say they are or aren't, since it's difficult to know. The key, though, is that unless you can do a significant amount of damage to a mounted unit or its horse, it's not going to stop it's charge. Units in Bannerlord have no "instinctual preservation AI" feature - They don't balk or flinch unless you can get in a very significant "hit" on them. (Stun) Against lightly armored units, i'd likely let fly. Against more heavily armed units, I'd "brace" once that mechanic is working...

Against bandit units of any type, always "Fire at Will" since they're disorganized and only a few will actually be strong units capable of taking a hit.

When Charging the enemy, just go ahead and set everyone at Fire at Will. It'll get some additional kills during a rout if your units have ammo.

So, from the above, what's the takeaway? IMO, the type of thrown weapon doesn't truly matter, it's how they're used that's important. For "What's Best" it's going to rely on how you use them. I haven't seen much difference between high-tier units of similar capability and equipment. It's nearly all "situational" and there is no "I Win" choice between standard unit trees in any case. (Noble trees, however, have some units of distinction worth paying attention to.) I would not make any choices depending on type of thrown weapon, but may make choices whether or not the unit has them.

[Cetra]

Originally posted by Morkonan:

Originally posted by Cetra:

...
I've read somewhere that that empire units do better in normal formation while sturgian troops where meant to be in shield wall ?

IMO, having played as a Lord with both factions, they're fairly equitable in terms of overall survivability and performance. Though, expect that to change here and there up to and past release, depending on patches.

I do think the Spearman is a more defensive unit and I also think the Heavy Axeman is meant to be an all-around Heavy Infantry "shock" type of unit, but with much more protection and utility than something like a truly specialized Shock unit. (They're basically there as a recent addition to beef up the Sturgian line.)

Because of the above, I would always suggest a mixture of both. The Sturgian line NEEDS some anti-cavalry and heavy defense units while still retaining offensive capability. You should mix them up for best overall effect. Failing to do this means you're purposefully removing an ability designed to keep your melee capability very strong as well as dangerous for mounted/missile units... Which, is why the Sturgian units were revamped in the first place.

Imperial Units are good all-around Infantry and have some of the best armor in the game. Legionairies are meant to set the standard for "Heavy Infantry" in Bannerlord, IMO, both according to "canon" as well as practical effect.

I don't think there's a good "versus" comparison on paper. You'll have to see for yourself. However, in "versus" between Legionaries and Heavy Axemen, I think the Axemen might edge out. But, Imperial Menavlions are the go-to unit for chopping up heavy infantry and mounted units with support from Legionaries. Legionaries can pretty much destroy anything melee unit of lighter grade than they are while Axemen might be a bit more versatile. (Note: I do remember some instances where Heavy Axemen seemed more prone to being "squishy" but, on paper, they shouldn't be "that" squishy. :))

Again, on the "thrown" secondary weapon, it's situational and how it's used. There's not going to likely be an engagement where all the units do is playing "catch." :)

Note: Imperial Trees/Units seem to be structured around mutual support and specialty units being used together. Sturgian units are nearly entirely reliant on heavy infantry formation fighting and brute force "take a step, kill, take a step, kill, rinse/repeat." Sturgians are very dangerous for any army that decides to get "close" to them. Imperial units make very good "multipurpose" armies.

PS: I don't mix-and-match units, typically... I will take on a few bandit types for "irregulars" as some kind of roleplaying thing, but I try to stick with Faction-specific OoB.

Thrown weapon tactics:

Thrown missile weapons have been janky, again dependent on patch version. Either they're working, not really working, working ineffectively, working great up to the next patch... etc. Some units have shown a reticence to actually use their weapons appropriately, likely due to primary vs secondary weapon AI choices when targeting an enemy unit. (IMO) Keep this in mind between patches and any announcement of TW touching anything to do with Combat AI, weapon vs target choice, and secondary weapons as well as armor values and damage types.

Thrown weapons are tools for shock and disruption. One isn't going to get a sort of volley-fire obliteration of the enemy's front ranks effect from them. (Unless they're garbage tier enemies.) BUT... Bannerlord doesn't have formation disruption rules and the like and subsequent combat penalties as a result. It does, however, have broken shields and big fat horses to hit with them as well as tons and tons of units armored in bathrobes. (Stun effects are possible on low-tier units hit by thrown weapons, though. But, who cares about them, anyway? :))

So, in formation fighting with your line of heavy infantry, who may happen to have thrown weapons, "Hold Fire" is good when you're facing off against other Heavy or even Medium Infantry, depending upon their Shield. If they've got crappy shields (or none!), go ahead and "Fire at Will" to get some damage on those Shields. If they've got good ones, hold fire until you can break that formation up with kills and then you'll be throwing into their backs...

Against light/missile/unshielded troops and trash units, go ahead and "Fire at Will" once they're within what you feel is effective range.

Against charging mounted units, it's a toss-up. Each time they throw they "might" be reducing their defense. I can't say they are or aren't, since it's difficult to know. The key, though, is that unless you can do a significant amount of damage to a mounted unit or its horse, it's not going to stop it's charge. Units in Bannerlord have no "instinctual preservation AI" feature - They don't balk or flinch unless you can get in a very significant "hit" on them. (Stun) Against lightly armored units, i'd likely let fly. Against more heavily armed units, I'd "brace" once that mechanic is working...

Against bandit units of any type, always "Fire at Will" since they're disorganized and only a few will actually be strong units capable of taking a hit.

When Charging the enemy, just go ahead and set everyone at Fire at Will. It'll get some additional kills during a rout if your units have ammo.

So, from the above, what's the takeaway? IMO, the type of thrown weapon doesn't truly matter, it's how they're used that's important. For "What's Best" it's going to rely on how you use them. I haven't seen much difference between high-tier units of similar capability and equipment. It's nearly all "situational" and there is no "I Win" choice between standard unit trees in any case. (Noble trees, however, have some units of distinction worth paying attention to.) I would not make any choices depending on type of thrown weapon, but may make choices whether or not the unit has them.

I really appreciate that detailed response thank you!!