So, workshops are just worthless then?

[StormRangerX]

For the longest time I was just under the impression that workshops were still a work in progress, given how underdeveloped and underwhelming they were. However now revisiting the game again, I've noticed all the WIP elements of workshops, like workshop levels for example, have just been removed and workshops just seem to be declared fully functional, unchanged from the initial launch of the game. Workshops barely make any profit despite a massive upfront cost, and just go up in smokes the second the town they are present in turn hostile to you. I see workshops as nothing but a practical joke, a money sink, or a noob trap.

[Zorlond]

Ya gotta feed 'em.

You get stuff just by fighting, loose equipment and food, mostly. Smelt the weapons you don't care about, dump the metals into a warehouse that is feeding a Smithy, and it's profits jump. Smelting also often feeds you a lot of lumber, so chuck that to a Woodshop. Dump excess grain into the warehouse of a Brewery, it'll crank out cheap beer to make money and keep your soldiers happy. In all cases, you have to tell them to use Warehouse Input (via Clan > Other).

The other workshops are harder to feed, but if you set them near villages that produce the needed goods, they can feed themselves for less profit.

And yeah, do not set them up near an unstable border, unless you can personally stand watch over them.

[Azunai]

Work shops work fine. Don't build them in low prosperity towns and don't build them when you're a mercenary. That's all, really.

They aren't great, but they generate a steady stream of income and pay off the initial investment within a few years.

[StormRangerX]

Originally posted by Zorlond:

Ya gotta feed 'em.

You get stuff just by fighting, loose equipment and food, mostly. Smelt the weapons you don't care about, dump the metals into a warehouse that is feeding a Smithy, and it's profits jump. Smelting also often feeds you a lot of lumber, so chuck that to a Woodshop. Dump excess grain into the warehouse of a Brewery, it'll crank out cheap beer to make money and keep your soldiers happy. In all cases, you have to tell them to use Warehouse Input (via Clan > Other).

The other workshops are harder to feed, but if you set them near villages that produce the needed goods, they can feed themselves for less profit.

And yeah, do not set them up near an unstable border, unless you can personally stand watch over them.

You've got it backwards, smelting eats lumber, unless you're getting nothing but like pitchforks or something. Most weapons will give 1 wood, if even, rarely enough to keep up with the cost of charcoal. Other than that, having to constantly babysit a workshop just for it to make money is a massive waste of time and all I'm feeding it is stuff I could just sell anyway at that point.

[StormRangerX]

Originally posted by Azunai:

Work shops work fine. Don't build them in low prosperity towns and don't build them when you're a mercenary. That's all, really.

They aren't great, but they generate a steady stream of income and pay off the initial investment within a few years.

A few YEARS? Who thinks on that timescale? A caravan pays itself off in a month or two, and gives experience to a companion while its going. The game is going to be over by the time workshops become profitable.

[Azunai]

A year in calradia is 84 days.

Caravans are more profitable, but also have a much higher risk. They aren't even worth using at all if you're a merc, vassal or king since they die long before they can recoup the investment.

[StormRangerX]

Oh a year as 84 days, that makes more sense if we're talking in that scale I suppose, still a lot of time and babysitting to turn a profit. Personally I've rarely had an issue with caravans dying since early builds of the game, they seem a lot more competent at keeping themselves alive now, especially if you use companions with high scouting. Unless you're just at war with literally everyone, usually there's only one or two wars at most and the caravans tend to work around that. Then they just make much more profit entirely passively, so I can focus on building wealth myself while my caravans cover expenses.

[Azunai]

You don't need to babysit the workshops. You buy them and that's it.

In my current game i was running a mercenary clan for a long time until i decided to become a vassal. I went with vlandia, checked which of their towns had the highest prosperity and then just bought the workshops in the highest ones.

I never touched them afterwards and they have been generating something like 1000-1500 denars per day (combined) ever since. It's not a big deal, but it's pretty much free money, so there's not much reason not to have them.

[Zorlond]

Originally posted by StormRangerX:

Originally posted by Zorlond:

Ya gotta feed 'em.

You get stuff just by fighting, loose equipment and food, mostly. Smelt the weapons you don't care about, dump the metals into a warehouse that is feeding a Smithy, and it's profits jump. Smelting also often feeds you a lot of lumber, so chuck that to a Woodshop. Dump excess grain into the warehouse of a Brewery, it'll crank out cheap beer to make money and keep your soldiers happy. In all cases, you have to tell them to use Warehouse Input (via Clan > Other).

The other workshops are harder to feed, but if you set them near villages that produce the needed goods, they can feed themselves for less profit.

And yeah, do not set them up near an unstable border, unless you can personally stand watch over them.

You've got it backwards, smelting eats lumber, unless you're getting nothing but like pitchforks or something. Most weapons will give 1 wood, if even, rarely enough to keep up with the cost of charcoal. Other than that, having to constantly babysit a workshop just for it to make money is a massive waste of time and all I'm feeding it is stuff I could just sell anyway at that point.

One of the earliest perks of Smithing skill is the ability to turn 2 lumber into 3 coal. That's more coal coming out than lumber cost, so I always have plenty of coal lying around. If I ever go short, I just grab a bunch of cheap farming tools on the market, always dozens lying around for about a hundred each, and break them down.

Markets have finite money, typically 40-100k, and selling all the gear you get will rapidly drain a city's funds, and then drain any useful high-end equipment they have. What then? Smelt the junk you can't sell to make more money via Smithy.

I also forge Legendary weapons to pile up in my inventory specifically as a way to increase the value I have on hand at any moment. Why? Because when Buying a City, you need over 10 Million Gold to buy it. Legendary weapons are as good as cash for that sort of purchase.

All the while, my Smithies keep chewing up the metal I don't want to make more money.

[StormRangerX]

Most weapons I get from battle loot will smelt down into one wood at most, often none. It's really only the long pole stuff like farmer weapons as you mentioned that smelt down into more wood. All this extra time spent sitting around smelting is time lost I could just be earning more through fighting or trading myself.

[lar unuruur]

all trading of goods, trading skill, caravans, workshops... all of it is absolutely worthless from any rational standpoint. but! IF that is what player enjoys, now thats different. to enjoy playthrough is the whole point, right?

loot from battles is around 40-80+ thousands per bigger battle, these fights happen mid-late, lategame nearly every day. so, income from all these gimmicks is so pointless, it can be hard to comprehend for newer play what a waste of time and efforts it all is.

prize from one, single tournament can bring more money than all workshops and caravans combined for a few years.

few(8-10) top level crafted javelins will bring more money instantly than ten years of caravaneering, losing them, hassle with restarting them and ten years of income from all workshops. it is even more perilous if one is trying to play merchant and joins faction, for it is guaranteed these enterprises will be blown up into skies by some raiders or town at some point will drop in hands of enemy, there will be sieges and so on.

but again, who enjoys rolepay merchant, its whatever, who cares then.

ps. just won tournament, wrapped helmet with mail coif, 16.4k. took around real time minute, zero days ingame time. what are odds caravan will survive several years before bring that gold?

[kristianjakob]

Workshops are not the same. They have been updated to be more interactive which, as Iar above touch upon, is undoubtedly something that appeal to those that (somehow) do enjoy roleplaying as a merchant.

For the rest of us. Who the h... actually needs money? The game is incredibly generous with income so it makes no difference whatsoever. There is basically zero gameplay value in having a "one click and you can forget about it" incomestream in a game where income isnt really hard to come by in the first place.

You dont need to engage with every single mechanism in the game. Infact, the game would be alot worse if we actually HAD to engage with smithing, trading, workshops etc. in order to get by.

[lar unuruur]

right, for main, most important income comes not in form of gold, but as influence and it lies on battlefield. you need it all the time - for policies, restraining other clans ability do most idiotic things one can imagine within kingdom, raise armies at will and need and lead normal life as king or queen anyway.

[Zorlond]

Originally posted by lar unuruur:

right, for main, most important income comes not in form of gold, but as influence and it lies on battlefield. you need it all the time - for policies, restraining other clans ability do most idiotic things one can imagine within kingdom, raise armies at will and need and lead normal life as king or queen anyway.

I actually have four NPC parties running around getting me influence. I just wander out and around if I feel like it, or see something juicy. I'm not at the point of the game where I actively want to take over everything. Not yet, anyways.

Originally posted by kristianjakob:

For the rest of us. Who the h... actually needs money?

A valid point. Just grabbing two sets of throwing axes for a thousand, melting down and reforging them into a single weapon that sells for 20-90k gets me plenty. But I still look for ways to make more, and sources that don't rely on the limited cash cities have on hand. Plus fighting gets boring if it's all you ever do.

[flyingscot1066]

Workshops fulfill a multitude of purposes, and they work fine. I'm not going to say any of the advice above is bad, it simply differs from how I use them.

By the time I am ready to become a mercenary, I have enough gold to buy 3 workshops, which is the limit at that low a clan tier. I decide WHO I'm going to merc for. Usually Aserai, for reasons. So I go to Quyaz and buy the Oil Press there, then Sanala for the Silversmith and Brewery.
I set all 3 to send their outputs to the warehouse.

This means none of them will make me any money through normal operations, but my Trade skill will climb rapidly, about 2 points/day without any further effort.

Every few weeks I go to both places, take the products out of the warehouse, and go sell them down in Askar and buy horses with the proceeds for my cavalry, or drag them up north to sell.

I use this to crank my Trade up to 125 for Great Investor.

This is the point where I stop being a merc and send every last damn companion, my brother, sister if she's 18 yet, basically everyone except my personal heir-factory off to run their own caravans. Since I also took Traveling Rumors at 75, having all those caravans out is not generating steady Renown AND is telling me what the market conditions are all across the map, so I can make the best trades, getting MORE Trade skill without having to resort to cheese.

I also change my workshops from sending to the warehouse to selling directly to the market.

It generates enough income to replace both battle loot and mercenary wages to an extent, but without the overhead because I can run with a party of tier 2-3 bandits that I get from the escort missions, and their cost is further reduced by the Deep Pockets perk. They are already mounted so i just need pack horses.

A few weeks later and my revenues are far exceeding my costs, I can chase down all but the fastest of steppe bandit parties, and I'm tree to wander the map making trades, clearing hideouts, competing in tournaments, etc. and my Trade / Roguery skills keep climbing.

[Someguyinhere]

Workshops are for roleplaying as a merchant, which some people do actually enjoy doing occasionally (me). You have to actively manage them in specific ways if you want max profit, and there's a lot of inter-connectivity in the economy that dictates exactly how much they'll make you and what you need to do to manage an area. If you're just doing a regular become noble, paint map playthrough, you don't need them.