Add duel wield swords?

[Grugaler]

it would be sick charging into battle wwith a sword in each hand and slicing people left a right right?

[Ardariel]

Originally posted by BlackKatana:

Originally posted by Ruffio:

Dual wield swords is a hollywood/fantasy thing...

In an open battlefield, it would be more to harm than an advantage.

I guess Miyamoto Musashi is a fantasy character then... Do you have to argue with every opposition in this forum ?

he have not used 2 swords though. So... He is real character. That used long blade and short blade together. In CIVIL settings, not a battlefield one. Just like in europe.

I just cant fathom why people try to mend the history to suit their fantasy.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Miyamoto_Musashi

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Niten_Ichi-ry%C5%AB

ANd also, do you really need to oppose anything rufio said every time?

[Ardariel]

Originally posted by Balls:

Originally posted by Ruffio:

Pay NOTICE to the historical records mentioned in the video.... Now come back and show me some evidence of it was a common thing used in battle to slice people left and right...

I never said it was common and I specifically said it was rare but still historical. You claimed it was fantasy. There is an account by a British officer that describes a Native American rushing at him with a knife in an ice-pick style grip, along with a tomahawk. This account is found in the memoirs of British Lieutenant John Enys, who served during the American Revolutionary War. In his memoirs, Enys recalls an incident where he was attacked by a Native American warrior wielding both a knife and a tomahawk. The warrior charged at Enys, holding the knife in an ice-pick grip, which is a style where the knife is held with the blade pointing downward and the hand raised above the head, resembling an ice pick. Another historical account of someone duel wielding in combat.

So once again, according to your own words, there is no historical evidence of a dual wield of swords in combat.

And lets summ it all up - NOOONE in their right mind would do that. People who do that are dead.

Like "gunblades" there were made, all ended up being either decorative or reason for owners demise.
Like foling blades

yadda-yada-yada

Yes, you CAN makestupid things on battlefield. You end up dead though. You may go w/o armor on battlefield too, ya know. That is why every tradition of battlefield martial arts diitched that idea quit quickly. As battlefield does nto forgive such idiocies.

[Ardariel]

Originally posted by Balls:

Originally posted by Ardariel:

You better not talk about what you dont understand.

Miyamoto Musashi's existence counters your whole argument. Come back after doing some research, kiddo.

myamoto musashi spent his life in duels, not on battlefield. (there were no wars, well, no major ones, during his lifetime). And note, that every mentions of those "styles" comes from periods, where swords have not being used on battlefield. Care to guess why?

Also he have not used dual sword wielding, he used longer + shorter blade and used second defensively, cause he can not use shield. And in abscense of shield, with guaranteed to be unarmored opponent, you indeed better have second blade in second hand than nothing, if you want to use second hand defensively. But once you have european or chinese style of sword... even that is questionable.

LEARH HISTORY by reading history, and not watching anime.

[Ardariel]

Originally posted by Ruffio:

Originally posted by Balls:

Miyamoto Musashi's existence counters your whole argument. Come back after doing some research, kiddo.

Kiddo? I predict he old enough to be your dad....

i probably spent more time practicing with sword, than he is alive on this earth, but that whole "argument" is moot. You dont need age to have knowledge, that is why only kids using age as "attack" (or old people who have kids brain and achieved nothing in their life).

[Azunai]

If your armor is good enough to not need a shield in the offhand, you'd be stupid to dualwield short onehanded weapons on a battlefield. You'd use a twohanded weapon that gives you the advantage of longer reach.

[BlackKatana]

Originally posted by Ardariel:

he have not used 2 swords though. So... He is real character. That used long blade and short blade together. In CIVIL settings, not a battlefield one. Just like in europe.

Originally posted by BlackKatana:

This isn't a battlefield simulator, so your argument is senseless.

Originally posted by Ardariel:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Miyamoto_Musashi

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Niten_Ichi-ry%C5%AB

Originally posted by Ardariel:

There is difference, my dear, between throwing a link and UNDERSTANDING what is written inside.

Originally posted by Ardariel:

ANd also, do you really need to oppose anything rufio said every time?

No, I usually ignore you both.

[Ardariel]

Originally posted by BlackKatana:

Originally posted by Ardariel:

he have not used 2 swords though. So... He is real character. That used long blade and short blade together. In CIVIL settings, not a battlefield one. Just like in europe.

Originally posted by BlackKatana:

This isn't a battlefield simulator, so your argument is senseless.

Originally posted by Ardariel:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Miyamoto_Musashi

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Niten_Ichi-ry%C5%AB

Originally posted by Ardariel:

There is difference, my dear, between throwing a link and UNDERSTANDING what is written inside.

Originally posted by Ardariel:

ANd also, do you really need to oppose anything rufio said every time?

No, I usually ignore you both.

Yep, yo ignoring reading also.

Is it getting you off when you make yourself look stupid?

Read sometimes, you know. What is INSIDE a link. And try to UNDERSTAND, so you wont spew fiction like "myamoto musashi used two-wielding fighting style on battlefield". No he have not. He was famous duelist, not a soldier. He nevr used two swords, on battlefield or in combat in general,he used two different lenghted blades and only in duels. Try to READ.

People really are longing for some kind of faith, it seems, cause i see no other explanation, why they so insistent on believing in something, while all evidene is to contrary.

[Ardariel]

Originally posted by Azunai:

If your armor is good enough to not need a shield in the offhand, you'd be stupid to dualwield short onehanded weapons on a battlefield. You'd use a twohanded weapon that gives you the advantage of longer reach.

Not necessarily of longer reach in case of two-handed sword, for example, as one-handed stances with even shorter blade would give you more reach, but defensive utility, speed and power of strikes with two-handed grip making up for it in lot of cases.

Also, you not necessarily want to abandon shield either. It would be of little use if you are in full plate in hand-to-hand combat, but if you are not full-plated OR you marching towards enemy lines, shield give quite an advantage. There is also whole big topic of evolution of armour to defend against arrowfire, and not all footmen had top-notch armor, so shield is generally very useful on battlefield. Hence we see it for so long when people dont use polearms for some reason.

[Azunai]

i think in the high medieval period that is more or less depicted in the game (norman invasion, first crusade etc.) i think most infantry would use shields and spears plus some melee weapon as sidearm (axe/mace/sword). plate armor was not yet a thing in that time and so they neither had the need for weapons like halberds or poleaxes to deafeat plate armor nor did the chain hauberks or gambesons of that time period provide enough protection to not use a shield.

[Urmel]

if you like good fighting,
i advice to look some good old kung fu film like "iron monkey".

better action and story / chars then any tripple A film today could deliver.

[Ardariel]

Originally posted by Azunai:

i think in the high medieval period that is more or less depicted in the game (norman invasion, first crusade etc.) i think most infantry would use shields and spears plus some melee weapon as sidearm (axe/mace/sword). plate armor was not yet a thing in that time and so they neither had the need for weapons like halberds or poleaxes to deafeat plate armor nor did the chain hauberks or gambesons of that time period provide enough protection to not use a shield.

Sure, but i was talking about polearm in general sense. As in "long-shafted weapon", and not in moden-age classificaion more suited to late med-renaisanse era.
And it was not limited to spears (although, ofc, they are king of battlefield for a reason), but all kinds of guisarme, faulchettes, bills, etc. They were not as prominent as spears, by far, but they were there.

We also should mention "atgeir", that is often translated as "halberd", but was not one. And translated, iirc, as "mail-stabber" or "mail-piercer", that is a weapon even predates game period (viking age).

Well, i guess you see my point. Polearms were not anti-plate weaponry, and they kinda evolved into one later, but they were there before plates appeared on battlefield. We just so used to classifications engulfing whole medieval + renaissance period, and in that scope lots of weaponry chaged their roles. So it got confusing sometimes and stuff mixing up.

As for "need for polearms" in this context - higher reach is very significant advantage, so all armies around the world always tried to utilise it. Its not about armour. Its just that with development of armor leverage provided by polearms made it much easier to make anti-plate weapon out of them. But even then, "crow`s feet" is primarily one-handed weapon. And boy, does it make short work of a plate with all the padding underneath.

P.S.
I guess i better to just reffer to "warring kingdoms" era of chinese history to demonstrate my point - PLenty of polearms, that reappeared in mid-late medieval europe (not necessarily originated, although it is plausible, yet unproven), were there, with no plate armor in sight.

[Ruffio]

Originally posted by Urmel:

if you like good fighting,
i advice to look some good old kung fu film like "iron monkey".

better action and story / chars then any tripple A film today could deliver.

Jackie Chan, Drunken Master 4tw -)

[BlackKatana]

Originally posted by Ardariel:

Yep, yo ignoring reading also.

Is it getting you off when you make yourself look stupid?

Read sometimes, you know. What is INSIDE a link. And try to UNDERSTAND, so you wont spew fiction like "myamoto musashi used two-wielding fighting style on battlefield". No he have not. He was famous duelist, not a soldier. He nevr used two swords, on battlefield or in combat in general,he used two different lenghted blades and only in duels. Try to READ.

People really are longing for some kind of faith, it seems, cause i see no other explanation, why they so insistent on believing in something, while all evidene is to contrary.

Did I ever say that Miyamoto Musashi used his techniques on the battlefield? You are attributing statements to me that I never made, then attacking those statements and calling them stupid. How pathetic are you? You insist that I should read your comments carefully, yet you don't read mine.

"The standard length of a Roman gladius, the primary sword used by Roman legionaries, typically ranged from about 18 to 24 inches (45 to 60 cm) in blade length."

"The wakizashi has a blade between 30 and 60 cm (12 and 24 in) in length."

A wakizashi is a short sword, and someone didn't lose a duel while dual-wielding. I don't care about your opinion, but try not to insult people with your inner monologue.

[Ardariel]

Originally posted by BlackKatana:

Originally posted by Ardariel:

Yep, yo ignoring reading also.

Is it getting you off when you make yourself look stupid?

Read sometimes, you know. What is INSIDE a link. And try to UNDERSTAND, so you wont spew fiction like "myamoto musashi used two-wielding fighting style on battlefield". No he have not. He was famous duelist, not a soldier. He nevr used two swords, on battlefield or in combat in general,he used two different lenghted blades and only in duels. Try to READ.

People really are longing for some kind of faith, it seems, cause i see no other explanation, why they so insistent on believing in something, while all evidene is to contrary.

Did I ever say that Miyamoto Musashi used his techniques on the battlefield?

Yes

Originally posted by BlackKatana:

Originally posted by Ruffio:

Dual wield swords is a hollywood/fantasy thing...

In an open battlefield, it would be more to harm than an advantage.

I guess Miyamoto Musashi is a fantasy character then... Do you have to argue with every opposition in this forum ?

Here.

Anything else you want to say to bury yourself even further?

I guess your "its not a battlefield simulator" coming next, conviniently forgetting, that it is a game revolving around battlefield, and not around dueling, and so on.

So i guess i was right, you ARE getting off from humiliation.

Also you seem to think, that your "play on words" is not noticed by people around you. We start with dual-wielding, that implies and understood by majority, as using 2 blades of similar lenght, and then trying todeflect by coparing blade lenght of 2 VASTLY different eras. Why not take a needle in other hand then? Its a blade? sure it is, hence - dual-wielding.

Its kind of... it remind me of my yonger brother, when he was around 7-8, and thinks that we cant see through his lies.

Man, for real, start reading. Eat some humble pie. Musashi never dual-wielded, he used 2 blades of different lenght, VERY far in time from period depicted in game, in formalised civil setting and that are the reasons why it worked. Similar to "olympic fencing", that sure, born from real fencing, but dotn quie work vs real blades. It is product of rules and limitations and optimised to thrive within those rules, similar to "two heavens" style, that thrives in limitations of an enviroment it was in, give japanese real metallurgy - and katanas wont be born, nor does this style, as it would still use "swordbreaker" it was born from.

[justfaded]

Holy crap all this angst over some ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥. I should start a thread about whether katanas were better than euro swords.