NPC's are boring

[Roz Britanicus]

They are all the cut and paste no personality and all do the same thing no actions other than battles. This game need so interesting espionage added black mail , kidnapping, assassination between npc's some game of thrones story telling. I have had this issues going back from first few months of EA , as some of the npc's back stories displays intrigues and they sound interesting but nothing likethat happens in the actual game its self . Its so boring unless there is a war and even then war all the time is boring. I do hope TW as something up there sleeves and not leaving it to modders.

[Ardariel]

well, its sandbox with generative NPCs, so... I feel ya, but i wont expect anything different. We are not there yet, to have home-based NN to generate backstories and dialogues, that make sense.

[Ruffio]

Originally posted by Ardariel:

well, its sandbox with generative NPCs, so... I feel ya, but i wont expect anything different. We are not there yet, to have home-based NN to generate backstories and dialogues, that make sense.

It was Bannerlord they where going to make. Not a copy of Crusader King series after all -)

[Ardariel]

Originally posted by Ruffio:

Originally posted by Ardariel:

well, its sandbox with generative NPCs, so... I feel ya, but i wont expect anything different. We are not there yet, to have home-based NN to generate backstories and dialogues, that make sense.

It was Bannerlord they where going to make. Not a copy of Crusader King series after all -)

so what? Its not a bad idea to have such thing in itself. Its about resource management and technical ability. Even in very well made RPGs some dialogues are pretty generic. current day LLM can effectively do the same. Once we reach a point of at least somewhat promixity of same result based on home PC - why not use it for dialogue-building?

[Ruffio]

Originally posted by Ardariel:

Originally posted by Ruffio:

It was Bannerlord they where going to make. Not a copy of Crusader King series after all -)

so what? Its not a bad idea to have such thing in itself. Its about resource management and technical ability. Even in very well made RPGs some dialogues are pretty generic. current day LLM can effectively do the same. Once we reach a point of at least somewhat promixity of same result based on home PC - why not use it for dialogue-building?

Good resource management is what keep you from get games that is overly bloated with features and mechanics trying to do a lot of things and not particualr good at any of it.

I doubt technical ability have much to do with it. TaleWorld built their own inhouse game engine after all. In a day and time where majority of dev studios go with unreal, unity and similar.

[Action Man]

I wish they would have spent some time making more in depth NPCs. If you look in the game files, a lot of the starter NPCs have the beginnings of a personality, but nothing is ever done. Actual NPC/Clan quests would be fun.

Of course, any NPC can die at anytime, and they can swap clans via marriage. I also love the randomness of the game, as every playthrough can be different - not from the AI side, but the RNG and who I encounter, my friends and enemies, they're all different. That certainly helps with replayability for me.

[Ardariel]

Originally posted by Ruffio:

Originally posted by Ardariel:

so what? Its not a bad idea to have such thing in itself. Its about resource management and technical ability. Even in very well made RPGs some dialogues are pretty generic. current day LLM can effectively do the same. Once we reach a point of at least somewhat promixity of same result based on home PC - why not use it for dialogue-building?

Good resource management is what keep you from get games that is overly bloated with features and mechanics trying to do a lot of things and not particualr good at any of it.

I doubt technical ability have much to do with it. TaleWorld built their own inhouse game engine after all. In a day and time where majority of dev studios go with unreal, unity and similar.

i meant technical ability of out desktop PCs. To have generative NPCs suitable for sandbox game, where every NPC could die, you need PC that can run LLM on it. That is not possible atm.
And without generative LLM in such a game, you end uyp with either carbon-copy NPCs (like we have now), or some NPCs would have personalities and thought through dialogues and quests, but they would soon die and you end up with same carbon-copies, but with sour taste in mouth.

So here resource management comes in. Instead of doing last scenatio, they focused on first one. If they suceeded or not, is another matter, i would say quests they end up are diverse and interesting enough, so that end up good, but too generic impact of such quests lead up to you not being involved in em. And you cant really roleplay on it either. So text and quests are good enough, but rewards were not thought-through. Instead of choosing between quests based on rewards for each type (or some other distinctive feature) you chose basically if you want + rel with this NPC and if you can level up skill for companion, meaning, that based on your playthrough you cut off tons off quests as inefective, since you cant really be involved in them, cause generic sandbox text.

[stecph]

Originally posted by Ruffio:

Originally posted by Ardariel:

well, its sandbox with generative NPCs, so... I feel ya, but i wont expect anything different. We are not there yet, to have home-based NN to generate backstories and dialogues, that make sense.

It was Bannerlord they where going to make. Not a copy of Crusader King series after all -)

Or they could have taken example from let's say Perisno and make NPC with personalities and distintive traits.
But that would have required work.

[Ardariel]

Originally posted by stecph:

Originally posted by Ruffio:

It was Bannerlord they where going to make. Not a copy of Crusader King series after all -)

Or they could have taken example from let's say Perisno and make NPC with personalities and distintive traits.
But that would have required work.

they could not for obvious reasons. Now i think you are just trolling, cause noone can be that stupid.

[Ruffio]

Originally posted by stecph:

Originally posted by Ruffio:

It was Bannerlord they where going to make. Not a copy of Crusader King series after all -)

Or they could have taken example from let's say Perisno and make NPC with personalities and distintive traits.
But that would have required work.

Because make your own game engine is not work right? Claim they not been working is like kick yourself in the groin.

[EfBee]

Originally posted by Roz Britanicus:

They are all the cut and paste no personality and all do the same thing no actions other than battles. This game need so interesting espionage added black mail , kidnapping, assassination between npc's some game of thrones story telling. I have had this issues going back from first few months of EA , as some of the npc's back stories displays intrigues and they sound interesting but nothing likethat happens in the actual game its self . Its so boring unless there is a war and even then war all the time is boring. I do hope TW as something up there sleeves and not leaving it to modders.

NPCs are made to be bashed over the head, it's their only reason for existing. My armies kill them and I decapitate the leaders... No witnesses.

[Reipard]

I feel like the rulers are only ones who can be said to have personality due to their background stories and differences in how they seem to grant fiefs and so forth... that only lasts till they croak though since the heirs are always just faceless fodder.

[justfaded]

I feel like warband was a labor of love that developers were passionate about. Bannerlord feels like a straightforward sequel that hits most of the same notes just for the sake of having them.

[Ardariel]

its so sad, that most of topics raised always god derailed into ♥♥♥♥-throwing by "whaa-hwaa" crybabies.

There is stuff to be discussed, like what place do detailed backstories and unique dialogue have and sandbox (if any) and how to do it? Wither there is a good idea to have death and birth in BL, or should they left it like in WB. Or how to intertwine best of both approaches.

but no. We have "BL IS ♥♥♥♥ DEVS ARE LAZY WHAA WHAA" clowns, who have nothing better to do, but throw spite, instead of voting with their wallet, if they actually feel what they say they feel.

Sigh. And worst part is that active moderation make those kind of a-holes more prominent, or shut down all discussions altogether.

Welp, now i`m just depressed. Gonna find myself a drink...

[Ruffio]

Originally posted by Reipard:

I feel like the rulers are only ones who can be said to have personality due to their background stories and differences in how they seem to grant fiefs and so forth... that only lasts till they croak though since the heirs are always just faceless fodder.

How are you supposed to create background stories of countless of possible npc's? The starting ones is one thing, but all the ones that get born during a long campaign. How about your own kids and family? How should their backstory come along?

Some characters get descriptions based on their traits, not really a background story, but it is what it is.

In a game such as CK3 you don't have background stories there either after game start and new characters get born.