LOOT TABLES - STALE/BORING/FORMULAIC

[Modslave]

So first day I got this I was wandering around, killing looters and mostly getting junk when I happened to have bit of a lucky turn and in one of the groups there was a pretty good bow that dropped and I was like....oh sweet obviously theres a small percentage chance for higher value loot to drop on occasion from lower tier things.

WELL....in the days of attempting to hammer out and normalize literally every way players can make money economically it appears that the loot tables have been completely flattened to a generic <random variable> of <xlist table only> depending on troop type. And it also appears to affect city market loot tables too because the instances of fairly high value weapons or armor even in cities is extremely rare to the point of why bother even checking at this point.

I think this is dumb, its like a Skyrim level logic to a loot table, if X is Y then only Z, ♥♥♥♥ that, I mean maybe a looter DOES HAVE A NICE BOW SOMETIMES CAUSE HE LOOTED IT.

Please consider this going forward.

[JP_Russell]

I don't mind the variety of loot from bandits so much, though it could be loosened up and varied a little bit. However, I definitely agree that markets don't have enough high tier equipment available. They're already heavily gated by price if you're not already very well established, so I don't think there's a need for the market loot tables to be so extremely stingy.

[Syllabus]

So, if I raid and defeat some noble's army, I just get a heap of noble bows and war horses and generally such an easy-time in gaining money and items.... doesn't sound very challenging, and practically an easy-mode through and through.

Probability based drops based on given loot table, according to the quality of the troops.. I'm not sure where I'm supposed to be disappointed by this info, because that's literally how every game in existence handles loot.

I mean, what's your alternative then?

Do you expect to find Thamaskene swords carried by looters, or 20 sets of noble longbows and a full selection of high-grade armor if you kill 20 fians? If I wanted the game to act like that, I'd just use a cheat tool.

[Lonerider6121]

Originally posted by Syllabus:

So, if I raid and defeat some noble's army, I just get a heap of noble bows and war horses and generally such an easy-time in gaining money and items.... doesn't sound very challenging, and practically an easy-mode through and through.

Probability based drops based on given loot table, according to the quality of the troops.. I'm not sure where I'm supposed to be disappointed by this info, because that's literally how every game in existence handles loot.

I mean, what's your alternative then?

Do you expect to find Thamaskene swords carried by looters, or 20 sets of noble longbows and a full selection of high-grade armor if you kill 20 fians? If I wanted the game to act like that, I'd just use a cheat tool.

so i would think it would be a nice mechanic to include loot from who they took down. ive seen mountain bandits take down lord and his army before and have them as prisoners. that being said if i came in and took down said army before it made it to a hideout i should get a few pieces of loot from when they wrecked them. same could be applied to looters and such also when they take down villagers. get some of the stuff that village sells or was bringing back. stuff like that could mix it up some. least i feel it would make sense with the recent patch that changes looter and bandit behavior to take on caravans, villagers traveling and the villages themselves. adds to immersion, and adds to the variety at least which can be profitable if you know were to sell the stuff for a profit.

[Syllabus]

Originally posted by Lonerider6121:

Originally posted by Syllabus:

So, if I raid and defeat some noble's army, I just get a heap of noble bows and war horses and generally such an easy-time in gaining money and items.... doesn't sound very challenging, and practically an easy-mode through and through.

Probability based drops based on given loot table, according to the quality of the troops.. I'm not sure where I'm supposed to be disappointed by this info, because that's literally how every game in existence handles loot.

I mean, what's your alternative then?

Do you expect to find Thamaskene swords carried by looters, or 20 sets of noble longbows and a full selection of high-grade armor if you kill 20 fians? If I wanted the game to act like that, I'd just use a cheat tool.

so i would think it would be a nice mechanic to include loot from who they took down. ive seen mountain bandits take down lord and his army before and have them as prisoners. that being said if i came in and took down said army before it made it to a hideout i should get a few pieces of loot from when they wrecked them. same could be applied to looters and such also when they take down villagers. get some of the stuff that village sells or was bringing back. stuff like that could mix it up some. least i feel it would make sense with the recent patch that changes looter and bandit behavior to take on caravans, villagers traveling and the villages themselves. adds to immersion, and adds to the variety at least which can be profitable if you know were to sell the stuff for a profit.

...it is an interesting thought, but sounds more erratic than e loot table, and I think people might feel it's way too random.

Also, while I'm not a programmer and my knowledge in this stuff is rudimentary, this suggestion would imply the individual items in the game are tracked... meaning, if a certain sword a certain lord used were taken by bandits, then every time it changes hands, the game needs to track the current whereabouts -- and this has to apply to basically every loot in the game, that spans every region, every character.

That could be a huge programming nightmare which makes the game heavier, without good reason. I think the fact why games use loot tables in general, is probably to avoid that.


It would certainly be a novel idea if it was possible, though.

[Lonerider6121]

Originally posted by Syllabus:

Originally posted by Lonerider6121:

so i would think it would be a nice mechanic to include loot from who they took down. ive seen mountain bandits take down lord and his army before and have them as prisoners. that being said if i came in and took down said army before it made it to a hideout i should get a few pieces of loot from when they wrecked them. same could be applied to looters and such also when they take down villagers. get some of the stuff that village sells or was bringing back. stuff like that could mix it up some. least i feel it would make sense with the recent patch that changes looter and bandit behavior to take on caravans, villagers traveling and the villages themselves. adds to immersion, and adds to the variety at least which can be profitable if you know were to sell the stuff for a profit.

...it is an interesting thought, but sounds more erratic than e loot table, and I think people might feel it's way too random.

Also, while I'm not a programmer and my knowledge in this stuff is rudimentary, this suggestion would imply the individual items in the game are tracked... meaning, if a certain sword a certain lord used were taken by bandits, then every time it changes hands, the game needs to track the current whereabouts -- and this has to apply to basically every loot in the game, that spans every region, every character.

That could be a huge programming nightmare which makes the game heavier, without good reason. I think the fact why games use loot tables in general, is probably to avoid that.


It would certainly be a novel idea if it was possible, though.

programming wise i would say make it simple yet different. base it upon chance vs what the enemy was. so 1 noble of say empire background would give chance of said empire item. then with the units killed just a roll chance for archer gear or infantry gear but based upon background.

i wouldnt go all out in depth to track this guy with his unique horse was kileld by that bandit group. just more or less add a chance in for a roll of these items due to confirmed victory against an army or something. hell the villagers are easy jsut a roll for more basic supplies like food. caravans crafting supplies and ok weapons and armor. actual kingdom armies more weapon and armor focus. if you leave area or it leaves are and despawns then the specific i wach them kill roll is gone. but for those that spawn in give a small chance based on area, but high chance for villager loot, medium for caravan and low for army as a random spawn in chance.

[Limp Squirrel]

the thought a dynamic loot system does sound nice, and it would make sense if it makes the targets that more dangerous. Suppose a bunch of forest bandits overrun a lord who just got his arse wiped in the field and take all his equipment. You could be fighting that group of forest bandits, but they'd the be a lot harder, cause now they've got fancy chainmail.

The upside is, if you beat, that bit of shiny could be yours. I very much like that idea.

[Catsim]

I think once (if) they make hideouts more interesting they could add nice loot rolls to them. It'd make sense, the bandit boss hoarding stuff too valuable to carry around before fencing it. And it would be more balanced than getting nice stuff by running around auto-resolving small groups of bandits and hoping for a sweet RNG roll.

It'd be nice if they fleshed out bandit hideouts more anyways. Like if they're left for too long the local lord rides out to take care of them himself and takes all the loot home. So you've got to time leaving the hideouts to fatten up when the nearby bandits attack caravans and swooping in to take care of them before the local lord does.

It'd be cool if they made it so you could play both sides, secretly starting bandit scourges in areas by paying the nearby town's gang leaders, letting them take all the heat for attacking caravans, then playing the hero when you wipe out their camp. The drawback would be if you forget and let the local lord take care of it they investigate and you lose relations with them and the local merchants.

[Syllabus]

What do you guys think, about actually making use of the <Z> "Crouch" function, and certain situations to encourage light, or even cloth armor?

I'm not exactly saying "ninja" ... but, maybe you could wear lighter clothing and move in the dark at crouch state to use stealth? Like... sort of special-case in hideouts where visibility is implemented... so if you keep to the dark, wear light clothes to not give out armor sounds... then the bandits can't locate where the arrows you shot came from?

[Tzuede]

Originally posted by Modslave:

So first day I got this I was wandering around, killing looters and mostly getting junk when I happened to have bit of a lucky turn and in one of the groups there was a pretty good bow that dropped and I was like....oh sweet obviously theres a small percentage chance for higher value loot to drop on occasion from lower tier things.

WELL....in the days of attempting to hammer out and normalize literally every way players can make money economically it appears that the loot tables have been completely flattened to a generic <random variable> of <xlist table only> depending on troop type. And it also appears to affect city market loot tables too because the instances of fairly high value weapons or armor even in cities is extremely rare to the point of why bother even checking at this point.

I think this is dumb, its like a Skyrim level logic to a loot table, if X is Y then only Z, ♥♥♥♥ that, I mean maybe a looter DOES HAVE A NICE BOW SOMETIMES CAUSE HE LOOTED IT.

Please consider this going forward.

Aesari don't have Pigs in any town and village.. But breweries and wineries and workshops are okay.. And the Caravans carry pigs all the time.

[Go0lden_Archer]

Originally posted by Syllabus:

What do you guys think, about actually making use of the <Z> "Crouch" function, and certain situations to encourage light, or even cloth armor?

I'm not exactly saying "ninja" ... but, maybe you could wear lighter clothing and move in the dark at crouch state to use stealth? Like... sort of special-case in hideouts where visibility is implemented... so if you keep to the dark, wear light clothes to not give out armor sounds... then the bandits can't locate where the arrows you shot came from?

Must've been the wind scenario all over again. And "dovahkin" song in the distance.

[Tzuede]

Originally posted by Modslave:

So first day I got this I was wandering around, killing looters and mostly getting junk when I happened to have bit of a lucky turn and in one of the groups there was a pretty good bow that dropped and I was like....oh sweet obviously theres a small percentage chance for higher value loot to drop on occasion from lower tier things.

WELL....in the days of attempting to hammer out and normalize literally every way players can make money economically it appears that the loot tables have been completely flattened to a generic <random variable> of <xlist table only> depending on troop type. And it also appears to affect city market loot tables too because the instances of fairly high value weapons or armor even in cities is extremely rare to the point of why bother even checking at this point.

I think this is dumb, its like a Skyrim level logic to a loot table, if X is Y then only Z, ♥♥♥♥ that, I mean maybe a looter DOES HAVE A NICE BOW SOMETIMES CAUSE HE LOOTED IT.

Please consider this going forward.

to further amend.. in the begining when you have that simple bow and spiked mace? you can fully swap out your load out with ground loot, axes, swords, falcions, shields and javalins.. but low and behold. our valiant hero drops them when we leave battle.

[Poljanan]

Speaking of loot tables, aren't items in the game all individually crafted by the AI and not magically spawned which is why if a city doesn't have a smithy, it won't be able to produce better equipment? Correct me if I'm wrong.

[Modslave]

Originally posted by Poljanan:

Speaking of loot tables, aren't items in the game all individually crafted by the AI and not magically spawned which is why if a city doesn't have a smithy, it won't be able to produce better equipment? Correct me if I'm wrong.

I don't think the loot is done like that at all, it all appears to pull from the same set of form lists. I haven't really dug into the python yet like I used to in the original Warband but this all seems like formlist based loot tables with a variance based on the overall prosperity of a town or group.

And formlists make loot really boring, to be fair I'm getting to the point where I don't even look forward to the loot at all, I just take all and throw it in some towns market for the gold and lather/rinse/repeat and thats boring.

[Enigmatory]

Originally posted by Modslave:

So first day I got this I was wandering around, killing looters and mostly getting junk when I happened to have bit of a lucky turn and in one of the groups there was a pretty good bow that dropped and I was like....oh sweet obviously theres a small percentage chance for higher value loot to drop on occasion from lower tier things.

WELL....in the days of attempting to hammer out and normalize literally every way players can make money economically it appears that the loot tables have been completely flattened to a generic <random variable> of <xlist table only> depending on troop type. And it also appears to affect city market loot tables too because the instances of fairly high value weapons or armor even in cities is extremely rare to the point of why bother even checking at this point.

I think this is dumb, its like a Skyrim level logic to a loot table, if X is Y then only Z, ♥♥♥♥ that, I mean maybe a looter DOES HAVE A NICE BOW SOMETIMES CAUSE HE LOOTED IT.

Please consider this going forward.

Looting is crappy first because you can't level up roguery without burning villages and looting caravans. Descriptions says that's you level it up by recruiting and leading bandit units. Well in one of my games i had entire army consisting from bandit units. Never get even single point of roguery exp.

[#BUTCANYOUDOTHIS]

About cities, every city i go I check for high tier armor, and basically, there are only some overpriced helmets in the north and in the empire zone you can find nice lamelar gauntlents/shoulders/boots, but no armor. Where the F is my plate armor?!
(help would be appreciated)