Vlandia is too advanced

[Bukkacracy]

Am I the only one bothered by this? They look like they belong in Warband. I read the wiki and apparently they're the predecessor kingdom of Swadia and Rhodoks and they look practically interchangeable save for a few plate chestpieces and legs. I heard this game is supposed to be based around 11th century tech which fits with everyone else's level of technology but Valandia looks like 13th century+.

So since their inspiration is clearly derived from the Normans and Anglo-Saxons I'm going to draw a comparison around the Battle of Hastings in 1066 since the Bayeux Tapestry is the best representation of 11th century warfare you could ever get.
https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/f/fe/Tapisserie_de_Bayeux_31109.jpg

1. The Normans didn't use these plate steel face visors. You can check the Bayeux Tapestry which confirms this. They had a steel skull cap with a nose guard and aventail at most.
   
2. Crossbows were rare. At Hastings it was recorded the Normans brought a few crossbows but the majority of their skirmishers were archers. Even the English king is recorded as having died from an arrow to the eye and not a bolt. (something that probably wouldn't have happened if he had one of these imaginary face shields)
   
3. Horses weren't wearing big chainmail and plate bardings. Outside of the Middle East and the Byzantine Empire where Cataphracts existed next to nobody was armoring their horses to any sizeable extent. The tapestry pretty much displays this, not even the kings had armored horses. The armored horse thing didn't take off in Western Europe until knights were becoming seriously armored themselves. The Scots with their pikes at Bannockburn much later in the 14th century owed most of their success to the fact the knights wore heavy armor and their horses wore next to nothing because armored horses hadn't become popular yet.
   
4. The Pavise is about 3 centuries too early and has almost no linkages with Norman or Anglo-Saxon identity. We know when and where it came from because it is in the name. The Pavise is named after where it was invented in Pavia, Italy in the 14th century. It seems to only be given to the Valandians because they have crossbows and the crossbowman with the pavise is just a popular meme

There are probably more but these are the big ones that stick out to me. The thought of heavily armored men at arms with 13 century+ helmets throwing 6th-8th century Francisca used be Charlemagne's armies is laughable to anyone with a trained eye for history. I get the game is clearly fictional but the Valandian arms and armor is all over the place while everyone else seems to have a pretty decently thought out loadout.

[Gobbles]

they want a empire that uses crossbows only are you really that big of a normie to understand?

[SievertChaser]

Автор сообщения: ThiccSona

they want a empire that uses crossbows only are you really that big of a normie to understand?

Actually this sort of nerding out is the opposite of normie behavior.

That, and an empire entirely forgoing an effective weapon type is unreasonable.

This
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J0BciHfsU7k
is not how people decide on what weapon to use.

[rat]

Автор сообщения: OldGamer

Also, the Normans (whom merged with Anglicans) were pretty advanced for their age. This is why the northmen (pop culture calls them "vikings" (which just means raiders, yet they weren't they were a bunch of farmers in a harsh climate so raided on base necessity but still MOVING ON!) couldn't take them over and resorted to diplomacy (with a farming settlement in now Norfolk (North-folk quite literally)) or by underhand tactics such as making shady deals with Aesr (Northumberland - again "North's Land" quite literally) and backstabbing him once they got what they needed (York).

So I would say they were ahead of their time. But then I would say that as I am English and know we are the best in the world :)

It's just fact.

I am partly joking. :P

OG

Northumberland isn't "North's Land" it means the "Land north of the Humber".

Norsemen weren't farmers because of the harsh environment they live in, which is why the Viking profession became so popular.

And finally the "Normandy" literally means Northmen's Land, because the Norse were able to take them over which resulted in the king of Frankia giving a Norse warlord lordship over what we now call Normandy as protection from other Viking raids.

I'm just needlessly nitpicking and fact checking, and you're still correct that the Normans were technologically and organisationally superior to the anglo-saxons but that doesn't mean they used armored horses, large amount of crossbows or anything else of the kind. Longbows were where it was at lol

[Aetheling]

Not advanced enough for me. ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥ I miss the middle and late medieval armour. I can't wait for mod overhauls. Bring on Pendor, Ice and Fire, etc. Cause this is an amazing improvement but I just don't care for the early medieval stuff.

The Normans however, were in fact pretty advanced. William always saw the value in new methods of waging war, and we English regard 1066 as one of the most important dates in our history because it was the start of everything for us. The beginning of the forging of a proper national identity. They did use crossbows, supposedly in greater numbers than other forces.

Real talk though, I'd love to see an actual civ in the game based on England. Foot longbowmen supported by dismounted heavy knights. And also light cavalry with javalins and spears for the Hobelars of Wales.

I might try my hand at modding when the toolkits eventually get released. I've always been curious.

[Malarraenaepcaleac'h]

Автор сообщения: DerpFox

Not advanced enough for me. ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥ I miss the middle and late medieval armour. I can't wait for mod overhauls. Bring on Pendor, Ice and Fire, etc. Cause this is an amazing improvement but I just don't care for the early medieval stuff.

The Normans however, were in fact pretty advanced. William always saw the value in new methods of waging war, and we English regard 1066 as one of the most important dates in our history because it was the start of everything for us. The beginning of the forging of a proper national identity. They did use crossbows, supposedly in greater numbers than other forces.

Real talk though, I'd love to see an actual civ in the game based on England. Foot longbowmen supported by dismounted heavy knights. And also light cavalry with javalins and spears for the Hobelars of Wales.

I might try my hand at modding when the toolkits eventually get released. I've always been curious.

So big warbows but they have low rate of fire and low ammo but really good range, precision and damage? Soudns likea good armor counter.

[Pear]

Автор сообщения: DerpFox

Not advanced enough for me. ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥ I miss the middle and late medieval armour. I can't wait for mod overhauls. Bring on Pendor, Ice and Fire, etc. Cause this is an amazing improvement but I just don't care for the early medieval stuff.

The Normans however, were in fact pretty advanced. William always saw the value in new methods of waging war, and we English regard 1066 as one of the most important dates in our history because it was the start of everything for us. The beginning of the forging of a proper national identity. They did use crossbows, supposedly in greater numbers than other forces.

Real talk though, I'd love to see an actual civ in the game based on England. Foot longbowmen supported by dismounted heavy knights. And also light cavalry with javalins and spears for the Hobelars of Wales.

I might try my hand at modding when the toolkits eventually get released. I've always been curious.

I made a faction inspired by High Medieval England like this in a mod I made for Warband way back. It was my first real foray into modding and although there were some bugs and stuff I was pretty proud of it. I only made it in the first place because I wanted to play with some different historically-themed factions while getting the benefits of Floris etc.

When the mod tools come out for Bannerlord I might make some sort of spiritual successor.

[Darth Revan]

Автор сообщения: DerpFox

Not advanced enough for me. ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥ I miss the middle and late medieval armour. I can't wait for mod overhauls. Bring on Pendor, Ice and Fire, etc. Cause this is an amazing improvement but I just don't care for the early medieval stuff.

The Normans however, were in fact pretty advanced. William always saw the value in new methods of waging war, and we English regard 1066 as one of the most important dates in our history because it was the start of everything for us. The beginning of the forging of a proper national identity. They did use crossbows, supposedly in greater numbers than other forces.

Real talk though, I'd love to see an actual civ in the game based on England. Foot longbowmen supported by dismounted heavy knights. And also light cavalry with javalins and spears for the Hobelars of Wales.

I might try my hand at modding when the toolkits eventually get released. I've always been curious.

i personally dont miss the late medieval armor, however i cant wait for mods adding a kingdom come deliverance style lamellar armor to the game, with caftan, chain mail a lamellar skirt and matching lamellar shoulders, i gotta make my cumans in bannerlrod. :)

but you dont have to wait for the modtools, you already can add new units to the game which will be used by the AI as well and its very easy to do.

i for example added a very low armored vlandian longbowman with a good bow but only 1 quiver to my game. (low armored because i wanted it to look like from pre early access footage/pictures and that armor has crappy stats), though i could also add a new armor which uses the same model and give it better stats already too.

[Malarraenaepcaleac'h]

Warband doesnt really have late medieval armor.
I mean it has one plated chest and a winged greathelm..

[Keith 'Blood' Hanson]

I'm...just going to opt out. Not getting into another 'It's not historically accurate!' thang.

[Hayter]

Автор сообщения: Jabba the Wolf

Автор сообщения: Uberkoon

Gauls... Really? You're sure about that one?

Yeah I meant Celtic tribes.

I agree, but they also remind me of Dacians because of their flaxmen.

[Bambelbar]

Sure, but someone needs to be able to counter the Khuzait arrowstorm ~450CE. Which in itself about 300 years ahead of height of the Empire factions. I was steamrolling the game with Khuzait--so, I started a new game for a bit more of an "on foot" challenge. Vlandia ~1000CE actually requires you to command the different troop formations, hide in tree lines, shield wall, etc. Horse archer armies just require you to yell "charge" once and your done. I'd say the game does pretty well representing the technological heights of each faction.

[Malarraenaepcaleac'h]

Автор сообщения: Lord Haw-Haw

Автор сообщения: Jabba the Wolf

Yeah I meant Celtic tribes.

I agree, but they also remind me of Dacians because of their flaxmen.

Eh its a mix

[Black Duke]

I think the reason Vlandia feels so out of place is twofold:

1. It’s really hard to get a crossbow

Seriously, the cheapest crossbow I’ve seen cost ~3k gold, yet it only costs like 5 gold to give one to a peasant. Their cost suggests they should be relatively rare, but the Vlandian roster makes them seem a dime a dozen.

2. There’s no direct counter to Vlandia’s knight spam

In warband, Swadia was right next to Rhodoks, which was literally the anti-heavy cav faction. In Bannerlord, the only roster with counters to Vlandian knights is.... Vlandia. Like if you find yourself getting bodied by Vlandia, the only way to get a better army against them is to somehow get your own Vlandians, or try to out heavy cav them with Cataphracts.

[Darth Revan]

Автор сообщения: Black Duke

I think the reason Vlandia feels so out of place is twofold:

1. It’s really hard to get a crossbow

Seriously, the cheapest crossbow I’ve seen cost ~3k gold, yet it only costs like 5 gold to give one to a peasant. Their cost suggests they should be relatively rare, but the Vlandian roster makes them seem a dime a dozen.

2. There’s no direct counter to Vlandia’s knight spam

In warband, Swadia was right next to Rhodoks, which was literally the anti-heavy cav faction. In Bannerlord, the only roster with counters to Vlandian knights is.... Vlandia. Like if you find yourself getting bodied by Vlandia, the only way to get a better army against them is to somehow get your own Vlandians, or try to out heavy cav them with Cataphracts.

well, the rhodocks still are part of vlandia since their war for independence did not happen yet so that makes kind of sense. :)

[Tankfriend]

Автор сообщения: ARE

It was Americans who made "your own" language the de facto lingua franca, not your folk. Try not to take another's credit next time.

Actually, it's the Americans who should realize that they're not as important as they believe they are. By the time the US were any real player on the global stage beyond their own personal matters, the British Empire was already spanning the globe, bringing English wherever they went.
If the US has any meaning for an "English Lingua Franca" around the world, it was only building on the foundations already in place well before that.

Автор сообщения: Black Duke

1. It’s really hard to get a crossbow

Seriously, the cheapest crossbow I’ve seen cost ~3k gold, yet it only costs like 5 gold to give one to a peasant. Their cost suggests they should be relatively rare, but the Vlandian roster makes them seem a dime a dozen.

The Imperials also have crossbowmen as part of their standard troop tree. I'm wondering why crossbows for characters are so rare and expensive, too.