Still impossible to lose

[morgezuma]

Everyone wins just for showing up. Wow, and we don't have to pay extra for that. What a deal.

I just spend an hour losing as many battles as you can in that time. Jumping off high towers. Attacking, and losing to, street thugs. There is no way to die. Only your adversaries can die. You are immortal. Yay, what a thrilling adventure.

[Brax]

I don't presume that you have that little checkbox off in the game settings where you have the ability to both have children, and have characters die?
And even then, your chances of death are pretty slim. You have to jump off a tower 100 times to see if one time actually kills you.
This is because you will go through a thousand battle before you get to old age, and old age is guaranteed to kill you eventually.

[Action Man]

I believe the chance is ~1% when a lord goes down that they actually die - in the vanilla game.

Death chances are low because it takes time to children to grow up. You can no doubt find mods to increase the chances a lord will die when they go down in a battle.

The usual punishment the player faces is losing most of/all of their inventory and troops. Depending on what you had, that could be a setback.

[morgezuma]

Originally posted by Brax:

I don't presume that you have that little checkbox off in the game settings where you have the ability to both have children, and have characters die?
And even then, your chances of death are pretty slim. You have to jump off a tower 100 times to see if one time actually kills you.
This is because you will go through a thousand battle before you get to old age, and old age is guaranteed to kill you eventually.

Yes, I play on the default "Bannerlord" settings with the "all heroes can die" option in play. And also "Ironman" mode, which is a joke, since I've tried everything to die and can't die. Can't even starve to death. Rode my horse off a cliff, don't worry, we're both fine.

As for dying of old age, this isn't a bad thing, it's an option that lets you play another character if you want a change. If you don't want that, don't marry. If you are single, you are immortal for 50 years and it only takes about 5 years to become emperor.

We can whack the heads off kings and their children, but when their family catches us, if we are not married, they will not kill us even if their character trait says "merciless"

Why not let players choose options that include the possibility of consequence? Players who want easy mode can enjoy that. What about the rest of us? Why not allow the "all heroes can die in battle" actually work? Is it too hard to code that?

[Brax]

Originally posted by morgezuma:

Why not let players choose options that include the possibility of consequence? Players who want easy mode can enjoy that. What about the rest of us? Why not allow the "all heroes can die in battle" actually work? Is it too hard to code that?

I think you are mistaking possibility for inevitabiity. With your settings, you can die. But with like a 1% chance, you need to give at least 100 chances for a single pop and over 1000 to be so confidently saying the math is wrong.
As a small example, given 300 trials at .01 probability of death, you still only have a 4 out of 5 chance that at least one time will result in death... that means even after 300 times trying to kill your character, there's a 20% chance you fail every single attempt.

[Urmel]

you can delete your iron-man save file, when you die in a fight.

problem solved.

[Seasalt]

game settings

[morgezuma]

Originally posted by Urmel:

you can delete your iron-man save file, when you die in a fight.

problem solved.

Your solution is, everyone can be wounded and sometimes die, but for the player, any wounding status must equal death? Is that because you think the Dev is too lazy or incompetent to provide a reasonable CHANCE of death?

Wouldn't it be more rewarding to let armor reduce the chance of death? And shouldn't a 500 point crouched lance to the head have a higher chance to kill than a peasants thrown stone hitting your heavily armored foot? And let reputation reduce the chance of death? I mean, if you are whacking everyone's heads off, it seems like it should be more likely that a friend/family of your victims might whack your head off, but no. It doesn't work that way, because Tale Worlds.

[morgezuma]

Originally posted by Seasalt:

game settings

Yes. There is a setting for "all heroes can die", including the player. But as I said, it doesn't do anything. I mean, unless it means that if you are single for 50-60 years and you die of old age, which is just a dumb joke. But if you marry, you are immortal in that you can die whenever you want to switch characters. You didn't know that?

Test it. Try to die in battle while single. It's not possible. Starve? Not possible. Jump off a high tower? You'll be fine. But if you want to change characters, just marry, then you can finally die, but it's not a consequence, it's actually a perk that lets you now play your spouse. But you are immortal again until you marry. You never have to see a game over screen, even if you want a sense of risk in your adventure. Sorry.

[Clovis Sangrail]

Originally posted by Urmel:

you can delete your iron-man save file, when you die in a fight.

problem solved.

That would require using one's imagination, and I don't think gamer children have those anymore.

[stecph]

Arcade-like dumbed down game for modern generations, who need insta-satisfaction and can't accept that consequences to actions are a thing. GG

[MiSFiT77]

I think there'd be more angry posts if it was easier to die. Nobody would get passed the fighting Mountain and Forest bandits stage. Low quality armour against lots of arrows. I always think of this game like "what would happen in Total war if you were actually amongst it ?". It's not a single player combat game. It's a battle commander, empire builder with elements of trading that also allows you to be actively involved in the battles. Battles can happen quite nicely without your character joining the fight. But That would be tedious, so we have a compromise. Death is unlikely so we may as well charge into the middle of the fight and have some fun.

Edit: Also. You can lose. When looking at the bigger picture (and depending what your idea of winning/losing is). If winning is surviving a few battles then yeah, you can't lose. But if winning is conquering the world and creating a dynasty (which I think it is) then you absolutely can lose. Don't plan properly, make too many enemies, fail to look after finances, fail to gain enough influence points and you will end up being pummelled into a corner by the other factions.

[morgezuma]

Originally posted by MiSFiT77:

I think there'd be more angry posts if it was easier to die. Nobody would get passed the fighting Mountain and Forest bandits stage. Low quality armour against lots of arrows. I always think of this game like "what would happen in Total war if you were actually amongst it ?". It's not a single player combat game. It's a battle commander, empire builder with elements of trading that also allows you to be actively involved in the battles. Battles can happen quite nicely without your character joining the fight. But That would be tedious, so we have a compromise. Death is unlikely so we may as well charge into the middle of the fight and have some fun.

Edit: Also. You can lose. When looking at the bigger picture (and depending what your idea of winning/losing is). If winning is surviving a few battles then yeah, you can't lose. But if winning is conquering the world and creating a dynasty (which I think it is) then you absolutely can lose. Don't plan properly, make too many enemies, fail to look after finances, fail to gain enough influence points and you will end up being pummelled into a corner by the other factions.

Everyone wins just for showing up. I can behead kings all day and no one can take my head. Because Tale World's won't allow it. I have collected 20 lords and kings at a time to do be-heading parties where the reputation reduction messages play for 10 minutes because 20 lords/ladies/kings have a lot of friends and relatives. And yet, there is no consequence other than, oh no, they are not my friends any more. Boo hoo.

Is it easier to conquer all of Calradia playing Mr. Nice Guy? Yes. So what? I have eternity, because Tale World's cannot code an option for players who can't feel victorious unless there was a chance of defeat. My upstart family line can never be extinguished. If My kids are underaged, I play as my spouse who becomes immortal the moment I die. And loses immortality only if he/she marries, but that's no problem, because if die, spouse gains immortality until marriage. In short, the family line cannot end as long as you marry and you cannot die if you don't marry.

Leave dying by old age out of it, because that's a stupid joke and to die by old age you have to spend up the game and leave it running while you go to bed.

I'm not asking for the game to be harder. I'm asking that game settings actually do what they say they do and why, for the love of god, can't players who want to play risk free do that, AND players who want risk be allowed to have that too. Everyone is happy.

[Action Man]

So you want some kind of slider bar to give you a greater chance at dying?

Or you want to have a Game Over screen to tell you to stop playing and start a new run?

[morgezuma]

Originally posted by Action Man:

So you want some kind of slider bar to give you a greater chance at dying?

Or you want to have a Game Over screen to tell you to stop playing and start a new run?

I want optional settings that will make death in battle a possibility. The chance of death should be less if I'm in heavy armor when I'm wounded and my army wins. And a greater chance of death if I'm in light armor, get 500 points of crouched lance damage to the head from a lord whose family member I executed. Currently, both situations result in me continuing to live.

It would be a great game if I my character could die like all those I kill. Being the only immortal on the battle field feels scummy and boring.

Meanwhile, of course I know other players enjoy it the way it is. I just think it would be easy to please a range of different players by simply including options that allow the possibility of death in battle for those who want to click that option.

As for the game telling me I've won, and to start again. I don't need that. I play plenty of open ended games. In Bannerlord, if I wasn't immortal, I'd take pleasure in every victory and count my lucky stars if I lost a fell in battle, but survived. But the way it is now, there is no way to not survive a battle. (except for getting married, in which case they'll let you die, as long as you have an heir to play, which for me, makes the game just a stupid grind of one immortal against the thousands of poor NPCs that will die for my pleasure.

Now glorious to survive when you cannot die. Yawn.

[Action Man]

That's still a restriction you can put on yourself if it's that important. Pull up an RNG site (or roll some dice if you have it), and set whatever odds you want for yourself. If you fail your roll, then it's Game Over. Not a particularly elegant solution, but workable.

I had thought that death for the player was equal to the death chances of every other lord - I didn't know that you cannot die in battle if you are the only member of your clan. Other than you, I haven't seen that anywhere else.

Death in battle is a low chance because it's fairly easy for the game to snowball into a ghost town.