Mount & Blade Concept Overhaul Mods?

[Chimp]

I am confident that im in the wrong place for this. What I am so hungry for right now is an authentic experience in any of these games. Like from the first game in the series and all the expansions to now, im looking for any variation that is the most authentic.

To be clear what im looking for is the medieval environment where resources matter, that having a village meant genuine village management, what crops and industries they produce, the population size a how much labor they can produce.

My experience in M&B is that fiefs dont actually produce wealth like they should. I placed a modded version where you could trade fiefs, and i would get a castle from the front line and traded it for a wealthy village in the back territory in my faction. for the first week the output was like 5k, the next week it dropped below 1k... that was because the NPC lords get more resources then you. so naturally when you get something it dies on contact, for 'balancing'

Aside from trading basic resources between major settlements material resources dont actually matter. in viking conquest you had to work to get ships and manage them, but then the other factions could just summon ships out of thin air and just walk onto the water, even at a ferry station they could just poof ships into being.

In reality acquiring recruits should mean that you visit the local shops to get them gear rather then paying 'upgrade' fees on the go. horses cost stupid amounts of money to own personally, but if you want to upgrade infantry to cavalry its a few hundred...

For all these complaints, what im trying to say is i want a more authentic experience besides just winning battles and getting loot and winning more battles. like right now im looking at 'star wars: conquest' this radical overhaul of the game to become star wars, and if you can make that in this environment, why cant you make something really authentic in the base game?

I am just at the point where I want to stop playing games outright because nothing is meaningful anymore. the excuse from the last two decades is that we didnt have the mechanics or the engines to do those things, but there are still janky games from the 90s that have better mechanics and replay ability then stuff we have now twenty years later...

if i wanted to serve a king in this game, the king is surface level and doesnt actually have mechanics. this is a game series that revolves around politics, but has no actual cloak and dagger elements. if this were just 10% of game of thrones, it would be a better experience, just 10% of my desires for authenticity would be enough...

This game revolves around combat and becoming someone with wealth and status, but then does nothing with the wealth and status once things quiet down. you are either in a war struggling or bored out of your mind, no village management or inner kingdom intrigue during the peace, no incentive to even become a lord when the mercenary wage is better then the village that gets raided constantly... please, tell me there is more to this in some mod somewhere?

[Chimp]

anybody?

[castiy0 connubii]

Hi Chimp,
Hmm if i may suggest u could try a "hardcore" playthrough tailored based on your skill level and from what I've browsed/played through some mods, probably something banditry related, so conducting banditry operations and managing that to some extent.
Or in other words, basically elongating the early game as much as possible with a grind based on self-constraints on your game-play. As somehow I had the most fun in butterlord while I was getting captured/defeated like crazy e.g. spent 6 hours to finally get a companion and then the next battle against a few looters they straight up got stabbed in the face and died, like hwat the fug haha.
Strat gaming did a few play-through's like this if you'd wanna check out examples of what I mean. But keeping in mind to keep it flexible based on how you'd wanna play.

[Chimp]

Originally posted by castiy0 connubii:

Hi Chimp,
Hmm if i may suggest u could try a "hardcore" playthrough tailored based on your skill level and from what I've browsed/played through some mods, probably something banditry related, so conducting banditry operations and managing that to some extent.
Or in other words, basically elongating the early game as much as possible with a grind based on self-constraints on your game-play. As somehow I had the most fun in butterlord while I was getting captured/defeated like crazy e.g. spent 6 hours to finally get a companion and then the next battle against a few looters they straight up got stabbed in the face and died, like hwat the fug haha.
Strat gaming did a few play-through's like this if you'd wanna check out examples of what I mean. But keeping in mind to keep it flexible based on how you'd wanna play.

honestly i might just stop playing games all together... a decade ago things were really enjoyable, and the best experiences i ever had were shut down because we all need to 'move on' for whatever reason, servers get shut down, updates that ruin a good experience, complete betrayals of what made franchises unique...

the worst part is that the majority of people just accept whatever they get, no matter how predatory, and if you object they all go insane as if asking for quality is some kind of sin...

[InfernusMatrix]

Originally posted by Chimp:

I am confident that im in the wrong place for this. What I am so hungry for right now is an authentic experience in any of these games. Like from the first game in the series and all the expansions to now, im looking for any variation that is the most authentic.

To be clear what im looking for is the medieval environment where resources matter, that having a village meant genuine village management, what crops and industries they produce, the population size a how much labor they can produce.

My experience in M&B is that fiefs dont actually produce wealth like they should. I placed a modded version where you could trade fiefs, and i would get a castle from the front line and traded it for a wealthy village in the back territory in my faction. for the first week the output was like 5k, the next week it dropped below 1k... that was because the NPC lords get more resources then you. so naturally when you get something it dies on contact, for 'balancing'

Aside from trading basic resources between major settlements material resources dont actually matter. in viking conquest you had to work to get ships and manage them, but then the other factions could just summon ships out of thin air and just walk onto the water, even at a ferry station they could just poof ships into being.

In reality acquiring recruits should mean that you visit the local shops to get them gear rather then paying 'upgrade' fees on the go. horses cost stupid amounts of money to own personally, but if you want to upgrade infantry to cavalry its a few hundred...

For all these complaints, what im trying to say is i want a more authentic experience besides just winning battles and getting loot and winning more battles. like right now im looking at 'star wars: conquest' this radical overhaul of the game to become star wars, and if you can make that in this environment, why cant you make something really authentic in the base game?

I am just at the point where I want to stop playing games outright because nothing is meaningful anymore. the excuse from the last two decades is that we didnt have the mechanics or the engines to do those things, but there are still janky games from the 90s that have better mechanics and replay ability then stuff we have now twenty years later...

if i wanted to serve a king in this game, the king is surface level and doesnt actually have mechanics. this is a game series that revolves around politics, but has no actual cloak and dagger elements. if this were just 10% of game of thrones, it would be a better experience, just 10% of my desires for authenticity would be enough...

This game revolves around combat and becoming someone with wealth and status, but then does nothing with the wealth and status once things quiet down. you are either in a war struggling or bored out of your mind, no village management or inner kingdom intrigue during the peace, no incentive to even become a lord when the mercenary wage is better then the village that gets raided constantly... please, tell me there is more to this in some mod somewhere?

I 100% agree the game with what you wrote here. Banner-lord has a great fun combat loop, but that's about it. Everything else seems half backed or only partially implemented. I think in time this game could be my dream medieval sandbox, the mods do help extend the fun but it's still rough around the edges.

Many games from the 90's and 80's had a ton of depth because graphics were not the main focus, that doesn't mean games from back then don't look great but, they polished well for the hardware during a time you could do more with less. Games from that era also had to release in a "finished" state instead of how most games are basically all alpha's now...

[cretedog]

Computer technology make the games perpetually evolutionary and I am pretty sure the game is constantly being worked on. For me, the first challenge was to figure out how to understand the mods and how they work with new patches etc. And most of the time, locking your game into a stable version with your mods compatible with that game version worked for me.

[Chimp]

Originally posted by InfernusMatrix:

Originally posted by Chimp:

I am confident that im in the wrong place for this. What I am so hungry for right now is an authentic experience in any of these games. Like from the first game in the series and all the expansions to now, im looking for any variation that is the most authentic.

To be clear what im looking for is the medieval environment where resources matter, that having a village meant genuine village management, what crops and industries they produce, the population size a how much labor they can produce.

My experience in M&B is that fiefs dont actually produce wealth like they should. I placed a modded version where you could trade fiefs, and i would get a castle from the front line and traded it for a wealthy village in the back territory in my faction. for the first week the output was like 5k, the next week it dropped below 1k... that was because the NPC lords get more resources then you. so naturally when you get something it dies on contact, for 'balancing'

Aside from trading basic resources between major settlements material resources dont actually matter. in viking conquest you had to work to get ships and manage them, but then the other factions could just summon ships out of thin air and just walk onto the water, even at a ferry station they could just poof ships into being.

In reality acquiring recruits should mean that you visit the local shops to get them gear rather then paying 'upgrade' fees on the go. horses cost stupid amounts of money to own personally, but if you want to upgrade infantry to cavalry its a few hundred...

For all these complaints, what im trying to say is i want a more authentic experience besides just winning battles and getting loot and winning more battles. like right now im looking at 'star wars: conquest' this radical overhaul of the game to become star wars, and if you can make that in this environment, why cant you make something really authentic in the base game?

I am just at the point where I want to stop playing games outright because nothing is meaningful anymore. the excuse from the last two decades is that we didnt have the mechanics or the engines to do those things, but there are still janky games from the 90s that have better mechanics and replay ability then stuff we have now twenty years later...

if i wanted to serve a king in this game, the king is surface level and doesnt actually have mechanics. this is a game series that revolves around politics, but has no actual cloak and dagger elements. if this were just 10% of game of thrones, it would be a better experience, just 10% of my desires for authenticity would be enough...

This game revolves around combat and becoming someone with wealth and status, but then does nothing with the wealth and status once things quiet down. you are either in a war struggling or bored out of your mind, no village management or inner kingdom intrigue during the peace, no incentive to even become a lord when the mercenary wage is better then the village that gets raided constantly... please, tell me there is more to this in some mod somewhere?

I 100% agree the game with what you wrote here. Banner-lord has a great fun combat loop, but that's about it. Everything else seems half backed or only partially implemented. I think in time this game could be my dream medieval sandbox, the mods do help extend the fun but it's still rough around the edges.

Many games from the 90's and 80's had a ton of depth because graphics were not the main focus, that doesn't mean games from back then don't look great but, they polished well for the hardware during a time you could do more with less. Games from that era also had to release in a "finished" state instead of how most games are basically all alpha's now...

could you recommend any titles? depth really is the supreme quality here.

[MAXE]

Originally posted by Chimp:

Originally posted by InfernusMatrix:

I 100% agree the game with what you wrote here. Banner-lord has a great fun combat loop, but that's about it. Everything else seems half backed or only partially implemented. I think in time this game could be my dream medieval sandbox, the mods do help extend the fun but it's still rough around the edges.

Many games from the 90's and 80's had a ton of depth because graphics were not the main focus, that doesn't mean games from back then don't look great but, they polished well for the hardware during a time you could do more with less. Games from that era also had to release in a "finished" state instead of how most games are basically all alpha's now...

could you recommend any titles? depth really is the supreme quality here.

We kinda need a law against this, a law that protects the customers against scamming alpha/beta state game developers wich never give what the players want in their game play experiences but just go where the money flows best ..

that we need, to stop thous stupid game developers !

[Chimp]

Originally posted by M-A-X-E ™:

Originally posted by Chimp:

could you recommend any titles? depth really is the supreme quality here.

We kinda need a law against this, a law that protects the customers against scamming alpha/beta state game developers wich never give what the players want in their game play experiences but just go where the money flows best ..

that we need, to stop thous stupid game developers !

good luck with that... i mean i would call for impaling the way vlad did it but you have hundred of millions of normies that just accept whatever they are shoveled and never second guess a single thing... like with halo infinite, it was supposed to be a call back to the original (real halo) and the music was just generic scifi hoopla, and i would criticize the music in lobbies and all these stupid kids are like 'no the music is awesome' in what respect? you could just take final fantasy music and slap it on and call it 'awesome' marty odonnel was a genius, his music is legendary, and they didnt even attempt to reproduce it, so no, rando whatever is not 'awesome' this is supposed to be halo returning to its roots...

all that said, the vast majority of people are brain dead consumers with no comprehension of quality... so likely nothing will ever happen...

[Troysdownfall]

There's a currently unreleased title named Kinstrife that I think would intrigue you.

[Tanyon]

Chimp it might help if you could name a few of the games you really liked 10 years ago. I'm not sure if we can find what you like but it might help to narrow down?

I think a lot of games try to do too much and do not put enough effort into each thing. Look at Bannerlord..

War
Caravans
Shops
Clan "management"
Party "management"
Castle "management"
City "management"
Tournaments
Crafting
Trading

seems like a lot of stuff but each of these represents about 1" in depth.. but then on the flip side if ALL of these things were super in depth who would have time for all of them.

I think we have reached an era where we all want more from developers and they deliver what we want but then it becomes a matter of how much of THIS or THAT there is and to what extent.. we are definitely in a weird game creation space currently.. obviously in my opinion.

[Morkonan]

Originally posted by Chimp:

....
To be clear what im looking for is the medieval environment where resources matter, that having a village meant genuine village management, what crops and industries they produce, the population size a how much labor they can produce.
..

First and foremost, the Warband series has never wanted to be, and has actively avoided being, a "4x" sort of game in terms of resources and production/industry.

Coupled with that, Warband has always been about "fighting battles." The goal of being a King/Emperor/Lord/whatever has always just been a framework to support that gameplay.

Given the intended scale of the game, battles range from the hundreds to the thousands. To facilitate what the game provides, a battle-fightin' gaem with lotsa battlez fightin' to fight, "micromanagement" is discouraged.

So, to give you some good RPG components and scratch that "equipment progression itch," you can micromanage Companions.

TW has purposefully hidden most of the "economics" mechanics behind the scenes. They did this with Warband, too. All of that stuff is more-or-less running on autopilot with certain actions like Village Raids having an effect and Towns being effected by Sieges and the player's choices for buildings/etc. Aaaand, that's it. Why? Because it's a Battle Fightin' Gaem and not a 4X.

There is nothing short of the threat of bankruptcy that would make TW try to add more player controls of what they consider to be "tEH eCOmONy." It just won't happen - They do not want to go anywhere near being accused of making a 4x game... This is a Battlez Fightin' Gaem.

I think you'd probably like:

https://store.steampowered.com/app/1527950/Wartales/

or

https://store.steampowered.com/app/365360/Battle_Brothers/

or

https://store.steampowered.com/app/233860/Kenshi/

But, those games focus on squad-level tactical play with some RPG elements, not large First/Third-person ARPG battles. That's really the rub - There is no gameplay experience like Bannerlord's large ARPG battles. /shrug

For larger scale with the choices you're looking for, you're basically at the Total War level or Crusader Kings kind of games and you'll be limited in your ability to customize troops.

Note: The Warband mod, Prophesy of Pendor, allows you to create Custom Knighthood Order that you can equip and train (two unit types) using blueprints for gear that you've acquired. There's also expanded economy options and fiddly bits, but not really any deeper than Bannerlord's.

Also: There are very real mechanics in the back-end of the Mount&Blade games regarding economies and effects. But, none of them really, truly, mean that much to the end result of the player's gameplay experience. They really don't have a ton of effect as there are always multiple ways to find what one needs. So, in essence... they're largely window-dressing, which is why TW should never try to make them more than that... unless they are willing to provide substantive decision making and interactions for the player, there. And, that would likely detract from Battlez Fightin' Gaem, so... /shrug

[Tanyon]

^^^ Love Wartales and Kenshi ^^^ I have several hundred hours in both.

[Morkonan]

Originally posted by DarthTanyon:

^^^ Love Wartales and Kenshi ^^^ I have several hundred hours in both.

:)

[InfernusMatrix]

They might not want to make a 4X Bannerlord, but I would want it. I never need to touch grass again anyway, if they make it I will buy it and be forever happy. :D

They've succeeded at making an excellent medieval combat game, but there is nothing wrong with wanting more game mechanics tied to the fighting. It would give the fighting more impact and meaning with deeper mechanics involved on the overworld screen.

[Chimp]

Originally posted by DarthTanyon:

Chimp it might help if you could name a few of the games you really liked 10 years ago. I'm not sure if we can find what you like but it might help to narrow down?

I think a lot of games try to do too much and do not put enough effort into each thing. Look at Bannerlord..

War
Caravans
Shops
Clan "management"
Party "management"
Castle "management"
City "management"
Tournaments
Crafting
Trading

seems like a lot of stuff but each of these represents about 1" in depth.. but then on the flip side if ALL of these things were super in depth who would have time for all of them.

I think we have reached an era where we all want more from developers and they deliver what we want but then it becomes a matter of how much of THIS or THAT there is and to what extent.. we are definitely in a weird game creation space currently.. obviously in my opinion.

as for this list.

Patrician 3 was a great trading game. running a business of sea trading in the baltic.

Gladius a great tournaments game. building a gladiator school and going from competition to competition.

Frankly im not even sure crafting is appropriate in this setting, sure making your own gear could be good, but the concept here is about leadership.

granted the management in this game is a solid improvement over viking conquest.

i guess the question is, if there are no wars to fight, is the game still enjoyable? there was an argument in the last kingdom. a dane says 'a man gets his wealth from raiding' and the king of wessex answer 'thats how a man takes his wealth, but wealth is made from peace' war should be an event, either good or bad, but not the sole constant that makes the game playable. if the game is boring without fighting, then you could always play more CoD... thats my attitude toward these things, starcraft is a game made for constant fighting, im just bored with it.