Is there a way to make Caravans not just a complete waste of money?

[Zarkkill]

After a few in game weeks from when I drop 22k to make a caravan, maybe a month at most, they basically always get attacked and captured by someone, and I feel like they didn't even make back the money I spent on them. Is there something I can do to make them better? This happens even if I'm not at war with anyone btw.

[Cheshire]

Stay a small clan, don't become a mercenary or join an empire, then your caravans will stay your clan, and neutral. keep your own party small, 20 or so tier 3ish types and just run tournaments for a couple years, they will make around 350 gold every 2-3 days and then eventually you will get your money back.

Its sad, but this is the only solution I have found. You must not be at war with anyone, so you can't join anyone. If you pair this with a few workshops in the super early game you can make some money, but once you want to join a kingdom, you need to sell them all unless the workshop is in your kingdom.

[GIJoe597]

Originally posted by Cheshire:

Stay a small clan, don't become a mercenary or join an empire, then your caravans will stay your clan, and neutral.

Originally posted by Zarkkill:

This happens even if I'm not at war with anyone btw.

Op indicated they are destroyed even at peace.

[Cheshire]

Then its part of the new update(possibly). If you have any issues even with minor clans (not a war) they will attack your caravans too.

The only other thing I can think of is you aren't clearing hideouts every 3 seconds then, as large amounts of small groups can descend on a caravan and take it out if it passes close to a hideout. Your companion needs to be really good at basically everything, more HP for troops, better damage, high trade skill, Scouting, riding(for party speed bonuses) etc...

[Zarkkill]

Originally posted by Cheshire:

Then its part of the new update(possibly). If you have any issues even with minor clans (not a war) they will attack your caravans too.

The only other thing I can think of is you aren't clearing hideouts every 3 seconds then, as large amounts of small groups can descend on a caravan and take it out if it passes close to a hideout. Your companion needs to be really good at basically everything, more HP for troops, better damage, high trade skill, Scouting, riding(for party speed bonuses) etc...

This was before the latest update and sometimes they are killed by bandits like Sea Raiders. I didn't even know Sea Raiders could move fast enough to catch a caravan.

[GIJoe597]

Originally posted by Zarkkill:

This was before the latest update and sometimes they are killed by bandits like Sea Raiders. I didn't even know Sea Raiders could move fast enough to catch a caravan.

Sometimes and in some areas, bandits have a better chance of catching caravans. What are natural passes on the campaign map are choke points. There are several places where the area shrinks to a small "corridor" giving caravans much less maneuvering room. Areas such as to the NE of Rhotae, or the pass heading to Revyl, the gap in the mountain range from Battania which leads to Ostican. And of course there are the narrow spits of land where it is very easy to trap faster parties. Such as the western passage into Aserai lands. And there are always the instances of simple bad timing. When a bandit party is passing a town as a caravan exits onto the map.

Those are a few that pop into my head as I type this, there are more. A couple of other factors is how far you are into the game and how many bandit parties are roaming. In areas where bandits tend to congregate (In Vlandia west of Galend, In Sturgia N/NW of Omor for example) if one bandit party catches a caravan multiple other parties can be pulled into that battle. I have seen a bandit party of 15 catch a caravan and have 3 or 4 other bandit parties pulled into that. They overwhelm the caravan guards.

This is why if I use caravans, it is only when I am still completely unaffiliated. In my current game, I am trying something new for me, I have 8 or so caravans and 5 or 6 workshops. I am clan tier 4 and only fight bandits, do mission to increase notable standing or compete in tournaments. So far, I have lost no caravans to bandits. I am running around with a max tier party, but I keep it to 91. Still making over 1000 denars a day in combined profit from the caravans and workshop.

[Balzack]

I've found that when my caravans are getting attacked by a lot of bandits, it's often in one area. If I clear out the parties and the hideout it will usually become less of an issue. Also, it's very very helpful to have a strong focus on scouting and riding for your caravan masters. If they can't be caught, they can't be attacked.

[ShadowFox]

Originally posted by Zarkkill:

After a few in game weeks from when I drop 22k to make a caravan, maybe a month at most, they basically always get attacked and captured by someone, and I feel like they didn't even make back the money I spent on them. Is there something I can do to make them better? This happens even if I'm not at war with anyone btw.

Caravans are fantastic, put a good companion to lead them and they should make you piles of gold no problem

[Philippe_at_bay]

You may not be thinking about this in the right way.

If you're running around with only a few thousand dinars, dropping 15 thousand plus on a caravan that will only generate a few hundred a day doesn't look very exciting.

But as one of my professors used to say, the answer to every question in Finance is "It depends".

Remember that there are very few investment opportunities in Calradia.

And if you're running around with five to ten million dinars from smithing because you turned your family and companions into the House of Krupp, you're going to be looking for every and any way to use some of that excess cash before you really need it, even if the rate of return is laughable.

So depending on where you are in the food chain, caravans can be a good idea or a bad idea.

The concept of the caravan as a training exercise is too complicated to go into. But I really think you should focus on forming your caravans as cheaply as possible, running them from economically viable areas, and not being at war with anyone for about two years while they're running.

And making sure that the caravan leader has a healthy does of the right skills (riding, scouting, trading, tactics, steward) when he first sets out can make a big difference.

I've had caravans generate some pretty nice returns, but I was careful not to be at war with anyone (i.e. neither mercenary nor vassal), and travelling around in areas that weren't saturated by other traders doing the same thing.

Caravans won't make you industrial strength quantities of money. If you want that you need to figure out how to turn your party into a production line for making lots of middling two-handed sword (or anything that can burn through all the traders' money in two towns at a clip).

[Philippe_at_bay]

To put it another way, if you've only got twenty thousand you probably can't afford them. But if you've got a couple of hundred thousand, why don't you have any caravans ?

[Budoshi]

im making 4 k just with caravans, when they got capture i simply make another. what i dont understand is how to use the workshops..i only getting 600 from them..

[Philippe_at_bay]

I've always assumed that what's supposed to be happening is that all your workshops and caravans are there to defray the cost of your army. You can make money from your fiefs as well, but they tend to gobble up a lot of dinars until they're fully built.

At the end of the day, if a caravan wanders around in an area with lots of burned villages and low prosperity towns, it probably isn't going to make much money. Paying close attention to a town's prosperity is probably the first thing you should be worrying about when buying workshops. I usually do a quick prosperity survey of the region I'm going to buy them in, and start buy in order of prosperity. After I decide where I'm going to buy, then I figure out what they should produce.

[Cantung]

Originally posted by Zarkkill:

After a few in game weeks from when I drop 22k to make a caravan, maybe a month at most, they basically always get attacked and captured by someone, and I feel like they didn't even make back the money I spent on them. Is there something I can do to make them better? This happens even if I'm not at war with anyone btw.

I used to feel this way with a few early versions of the game.

v1.2.0. has many subtle tweaks and although I do not assign my companions to this task I have noted the survivability is greatly enhanced in this game version.

My other point would be that the passive gold from a caravan is arguably not the only reason for running one.

The Caravan captain passively increases certain skills, when attacked these skills are advanced.

[ShadowFox]

Originally posted by Budoshi:

im making 4 k just with caravans, when they got capture i simply make another. what i dont understand is how to use the workshops..i only getting 600 from them..

Workshops make less but its unlimited safe income :) 600 a day is great cause you can have them for literally generations for just the initial cost

[Zarkkill]

Originally posted by Philippe_at_bay:

You may not be thinking about this in the right way.

If you're running around with only a few thousand dinars, dropping 15 thousand plus on a caravan that will only generate a few hundred a day doesn't look very exciting.

But as one of my professors used to say, the answer to every question in Finance is "It depends".

Remember that there are very few investment opportunities in Calradia.

And if you're running around with five to ten million dinars from smithing because you turned your family and companions into the House of Krupp, you're going to be looking for every and any way to use some of that excess cash before you really need it, even if the rate of return is laughable.

So depending on where you are in the food chain, caravans can be a good idea or a bad idea.

The concept of the caravan as a training exercise is too complicated to go into. But I really think you should focus on forming your caravans as cheaply as possible, running them from economically viable areas, and not being at war with anyone for about two years while they're running.

And making sure that the caravan leader has a healthy does of the right skills (riding, scouting, trading, tactics, steward) when he first sets out can make a big difference.

I've had caravans generate some pretty nice returns, but I was careful not to be at war with anyone (i.e. neither mercenary nor vassal), and travelling around in areas that weren't saturated by other traders doing the same thing.

Caravans won't make you industrial strength quantities of money. If you want that you need to figure out how to turn your party into a production line for making lots of middling two-handed sword (or anything that can burn through all the traders' money in two towns at a clip).

I can't choose where my caravans end up going though, they'll meander into any part of the map they want regardless of where I start them out

[~ Fabulous ~]

hmm, maybe the caravan system in With Fire&Sword is the way