How the heck do you make cavalry work?

[ressenmacher]

Playing a cav-heavy Vlandian campaign because romanticized knighthood is cool, and I just…can’t get the cavalry to dish out any real killing power. And given how expensive they are (which is further inflated by the cost of the warhorse), I really NEED them to be delivering that killing power.

I set them to follow or move commands to keep them from splintering apart and try to run them through groups of enemies, but even so I have a really hard time keeping them in an orderly group. They tend to straggle around and get bogged down and picked off a lot.

When they actually make contact with anything it’s just a mess. Big, dense infantry formation? They get bogged down and die. Loose or small infantry formation, like archers? Not only is it wildly cost ineffective, but they seem to struggle to actually land hits when charging through – just bowl over the infantry a lot or run past them. Cycle charge through infantry? Better, but they STILL get bogged down, and it’s so much micro for what you could just throw a line of archers at and have done with for less cost, less dead and wounded, and way less effort. Just about the only thing they seem to kill with any efficiency is, ironically enough, other cavalry.

I’ve done some research into it and this video about summarizes what I’ve found – just about everything says they’re underwhelming to downright bad and require constant babysitting to get any use out of.

So am I missing something, or is heavy melee cav just not worthwhile?

[Ruffio]

Escrito originalmente por kristianjakob:

Escrito originalmente por ressenmacher:

Thanks for all the replies! I'll try the beta and focus more on archers/rear charges and see if it helps.

That at least simplifies things. There is no such thing as too many archers.

With the new weather conditions in 1.2.x Your archers kind of turn into wet noodles in rain etc.

[kristianjakob]

Escrito originalmente por Ruffio:

Escrito originalmente por kristianjakob:

That at least simplifies things. There is no such thing as too many archers.

With the new weather conditions in 1.2.x Your archers kind of turn into wet noodles in rain etc.

I really havnt experiences this as a real issue. From my experience, a good old fashion archer party is still the undisputed king on the field.

(It has been more a problem for me personally; since some of the weather conditions means that I cant see a damn thing)

[Ruffio]

Battles that take place in heavy rain/snow will apply debuffs. Not just for archers. Horses get speed debuff etc

[kristianjakob]

Escrito originalmente por Ruffio:

Battles that take place in heavy rain/snow will apply debuffs. Not just for archers. Horses get speed debuff etc

I guess it just goes to show how good archers are;)

Of course, not all archers are created equal, goes without saying.

[TruXurT]

I'll give you a basic formula I use.

Army composition: More or less 25% of infanry/arches/cavalry/mounted archer each.

Obviously those proportions are not static and they change during campaign, but take it as a basic template.

Put your army on follow F1, F2 until you see enemy lines.

Deploy infanty and archers as soon as you see enemy's lines with infantry shielding your archers and facing opponent's infantry.

Use your cavalry and mounted archers (still on follow) to screen your foot troops as they get to position and repel any harassing enemy cavalry/mounted archers.

Then as you start infantry engagement, maneuver your cavalry behind enemy lines and attack their archers and then infantry from behind or from a flank

Adjust this tactic as needed, but this works for me most of the time.

[Sehnix]

good morning,
1st squad = shield wall inf. in front to draw bow arrows and javelins towards them...,

2nd squad = own ranged fighters, 3-5 meters behind Schildwall Inf.,

3rd squad = own cavalry,
after the start of the battle, as already mentioned, send to the right or left flank,
but so far that they don't come into the focus of the opponents' ranged fighters..,
best only mounted bow cav.,
send them off to attack as soon as the enemy has come so close that our archers fire at them...
Due to the additional bow-rider attack and the 10-15 meter distance of the riders from the opponent, they will no longer rush forward, but they will try to get the circling riders into their hands...
This way you save yourself the infantry fight and have fewer losses..., ;)

possibly 4th squad = hikers, companions,
all on horseback, which you simply send to the same flank as Squad 3 and then let them attack at will,
(with javelins or bows, you can also put them directly in group 3),
but without a ranged weapon they should not be put into the bow rider group as a mixed rider group...,

I did the first 2 rounds with almost only Imp. Elite katas. played...,
But these elite fighters simply don't know how to perform a lance attack and always only draw their short sword, which they can hardly hit anyone with due to the lack of range, and they always deliberately stand in my way and protect the opponent so that I can get fewer kills. ..,

so I tried out the Imp. Mounted Archers and I'm thrilled with them,
These make 2 - 3 x more kills per battle and never get in my way because they just circle the enemy at a distance of 10 - 15 meters and cut them down with their arrows...

But in an auto fight, again, the elite are katas. or other fraction Heavy Cav. unbeatable...,

So set options so that the troops participate in the battle in the battle participation order based on your own troop table in descending order (descending), and in this order they also join the battle as reserve troops if necessary... . ,
(Troop info window / right-wing troops listing of all of your own different genera and factions),

To do this, set options so that there is only a minimum number of soldiers taking part at the same time,
and you get several reinforcements, if needed...,

This means you can easily determine your participating troops yourself and don't have mixed Kavs. or mixed Inf., since you can line up all the Inf. without a shield at the bottom and can then use your two Kavs. (Ranged combat and close combat), it's best to choose for yourself whether you only want mounted archers with you for a fight yourself (place mounted archers at the top and place the heavy cav. somewhere at the bottom very quickly before the fight) or for an auto-fight better the heavy cav. wants to line up, (place heavy cavalry at the top and mount horse archers somewhere at the bottom)

[Stud Thompson™]

In my short experience since playing the game Cav seems to work amazingly well, at least when they're upgraded beyond tier 1 or 2, even then they feel super effective, I typically just set them to charge at the outset and have them hurdle into the enemy lines, then reset and charge again.

[BIOHAZARD]

I only used cavalary for my personal troops most of the time.
With 150 elite cataphract + 150 khans guards, you only have to fear larger armies....
You should have specialized captains assigned to your troops, that carry good banners eg +15% melee damage, -15% melee damage, +8% ranged damage, +10% horse speed.

[Love-caos]

Cavalry is pretty good if you use them correctly. You need to have in mind that you (the player) can charge 3 or 4 enemies, maybe 5 sometimes, before your mount slows down. Your soldiers are no diferent.
Charging head on into a tight high tier infantry formation? That's suicide, they will be stopped just in the middle of the formation and will be surrounded by enemies. There's no way they can stop every atack and will die. Personally, I find this very realistic.
The best weapon for cav is speed and manoeuvrability, so use them to flank, charge the rear or pursue the archers. Attack and then have them retreat from the fight and charge again. You can also make them charge at the infantry when reinforcements come in because the troops are not in formation.

It's also important to know when to regroup your troops and when they are at disadvantage.

But it is true that a full cav party doesn't work as it did in Warband. I found that having a party with about 50% inf, and the other 50% between archers and cav works pretty well. Your archers can support your cav when engaging enemy cav formations and infantry can pin the enemy so you can charge the rear or the archers.

Of course, if you fight Vlandia, you will be at disadvantage (cav wise) pretty much always. Catafracts are deadly too, but the Empire doesn't use to have so much cav in their armies as vlandians.

Hope you can get your cav to work. I enjoy very much to play with cav and it's always present in every gamethrough I play. Excuse me if there's some grammatical error.

[lurkathon]

I was rolling through Empire enemies pretty easily with around half Khans guard and half Elite 'phract. Basically barrage their troops on their silly hill until they are forced off it to go at my horse archers, who kite them away from the hill to a nice spot while melee cav moves behind to charge downhill. You can charge the horse archers aswell to hit just after the 'phract for extra carnage.

The Aserai made me rethink, they were good at harassing my horses and their infantry was more painful to charge at. Changing my party to include around a quarter Legionary who are great at shield wall made a huge difference. In addition to soaking up deadly javelins, they can hold ground very well on favourable terrain in melee combat, while your horses mop up the harassers and/or charge at the rear of their infantry.

After a couple of battles like this it was obvious that foot archers/crossbows would be well protected behind the Legionary, and add more 'ranged superiority' to pluck them off and force them off their hills faster. ATM I roll with around 100 Legionary, 50 archers, the rest is half melee half ranged cav. Its very effective but we'll see after the weather debuffs mentioned above come into being.

In any case it's a good idea to learn to use all troop types effectively in combination. In later game you might have to command large armies with all types for your faction to dominate.

[Major Tom]

-Split force
-Charge from different angles
-Retreat after contact
-Repeat
-Profit

Advanced version:
-Same as above, but add retreat completely from battle for fresh horses once cavalry becomes too dismounted. (Also works for Horse Archer armies as you refill arrows)
CON: enemy army refills projectiles and horses too.

[ressenmacher]

Y'all were right; practicing in custom battles helped, and switching to the beta for unit targeting made a HUGE difference.

I think I'm going to downsize the cav force though. I find that when it grows too large either the line becomes so long that it gets unwieldy, or the cav stack up so deep that during the charge the back few rows do basically nothing.

[flyingscot1066]

Escrito originalmente por ressenmacher:

Y'all were right; practicing in custom battles helped, and switching to the beta for unit targeting made a HUGE difference.

I think I'm going to downsize the cav force though. I find that when it grows too large either the line becomes so long that it gets unwieldy, or the cav stack up so deep that during the charge the back few rows do basically nothing.

Using them as an auxiliary force is the most effective method. My personal "Most Effective" troop contingent is as follows.

25% Shield Infantry (I like Sturgian Heavy Axemen, but others work very well also)
10% Shock Troops (Sturgia, Battania, or Aserai are all very good)
25% Archers (Battanians, ofc)
20% Melee Cavalry (Vlandians or Imperial)
20% Horse Archers (Khuzaits)

Shock troops behind the main infantry line, Archers slightly behind and to the left. Horse archers wide out on your right flank, melee cavalry wide left. Main infantry in regular line formation. Everyone hold fire.

If the enemy sends their archers out in front of their infantry, shield wall the infantry and open up with YOUR archers. They will focus on the closer target and take massive casualties while just making your troops shields look cooler.

If they do not, and they send their infantry ahead, your cavalry can punish their archers for that mistake. If their infantry turns to engage your cavalry, have your archers and HAs open up on them while their backs are to you.

Sometimes they will advance both their archers and infantry without showing separation. In that case, shield wall up, and send your mounted troops out to encircle, and send your Shock Troops at their left flank (your right), and have your archers advance out to your left wing and once they have an angle on the enemy rear, open fire.

Once you get the timing and angles right, you should be beating up on forces up to 10x your size. Also, having 40% of your force as cavalry improve your overland speed so you can dictate the battlefield.

[yoruichixX]

you use them to create chaos on the battlefield, especially nice with some ranged troops normally opponents are in shield formation which can make your archers useless

but now a bunch of horsebois running around and making sure the shieldwall aint shielding anymore

all of a sudden you see some bolts/arrows at their back

[Hugh G Rection]

Escrito originalmente por Ruffio:

Take lead, have them follow, when you get close to enemy lines, give charge commnad. Once you break through, you pick them up again, tell them to follow, turn around for another charge, rinse and repeat. Charge from the flnaks or the rear......

This + A good core of archers shooting the enemy and falling back when they move up. Combine hella archers that never commit to melee , just enough sheild troops to have a double line to protect them , and the rest cav.

You place the infantry somewhere that will either bait the enemy into advancing on them , or your archers just widdle them down.

You spit you cav into two groups , you lead one , you leave one with the infantry but out of arrow shot of enemy.

You hit a flank with quoted tactic or you hit the rear and give the cav you left behind the charge command and hit from both sides . Use "follow me" on both cav regiments once your charge bonus is over , gtfo , rinse repeat.

It's macro heavy but it's hella affective.