Mount & Blade II: Bannerlord

Mount & Blade II: Bannerlord

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peterspam Feb 9, 2023 @ 11:48am
Does companion skillset development stop when I turn them into vassals for my kingdom?
I started recruiting companions to turn them into vassals for all my fiefs but realize just now that as soon as one turns into a vassal, they are no longer companions so their skill tree disappears and control over their development is lost. What remains hidden:
1. Does that mean they stop developing skills as soon as they turn vassal, so they are basically stuck on a level, no matter the experience they gather afterwards from battles?
2. Is there any way to re-recruit a vassal again as a companion, or is that only possible from new recruits from the Wanderer pool, in taverns?

I don't mind if I lose control over vassal development as it forces smart decisions on how long to develop a companion before turning it into a vassal. But it makes all the difference to know if they get stuck on the level of a noob or can become stronger and stronger. Especially regarding the party size they can lead from that point on.
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Showing 1-8 of 8 comments
Ruffio Feb 9, 2023 @ 11:55am 
Afaik they made it so they get transformed with their own skillset fitting the new role. Promote a companion vs recruit a clan is a bad deal imho. The new "companion" vassal is a weak low tier clan.
peterspam Feb 9, 2023 @ 12:24pm 
Originally posted by Ruffio:
Afaik they made it so they get transformed with their own skillset fitting the new role. Promote a companion vs recruit a clan is a bad deal imho. The new "companion" vassal is a weak low tier clan.

That depends: if I keep a loyal group of companions I develop and rotate them in governor positions, I can always have an open slot for a fresh companion (wanderer) recruit and each new companion gets a fief of low importance.
Right now, I conquer a castle somewhere to teach an opponent a lesson, but I cannot remain there forever to fend off sieges, a free companion could do that. To leave a family member there is a waste, to pay for a costly vassal is a waste, but the wanderer pool is endless.

My aim is to have a dedicated character for each fief and that would be too costly by paying vassals, mid-game. If they are weak, they will have low influence anyway so cannot meddle into decisions. At leat I will not have to run around to wield off raids all over the map on fiefs where I do not have a family member as a governor..
Ruffio Feb 9, 2023 @ 1:07pm 
Originally posted by peterspam:
Originally posted by Ruffio:
Afaik they made it so they get transformed with their own skillset fitting the new role. Promote a companion vs recruit a clan is a bad deal imho. The new "companion" vassal is a weak low tier clan.

That depends: if I keep a loyal group of companions I develop and rotate them in governor positions, I can always have an open slot for a fresh companion (wanderer) recruit and each new companion gets a fief of low importance.
Right now, I conquer a castle somewhere to teach an opponent a lesson, but I cannot remain there forever to fend off sieges, a free companion could do that. To leave a family member there is a waste, to pay for a costly vassal is a waste, but the wanderer pool is endless.

My aim is to have a dedicated character for each fief and that would be too costly by paying vassals, mid-game. If they are weak, they will have low influence anyway so cannot meddle into decisions. At leat I will not have to run around to wield off raids all over the map on fiefs where I do not have a family member as a governor..

Weak as in not able to field much in the term of party strenght. And they sure as heck wont have the ability to fend off sieges. And they not anymore loyal than whatever else clan you might recruit.
Lekker Feb 9, 2023 @ 1:49pm 
How to turn vassal what did I miss
peterspam Feb 9, 2023 @ 5:10pm 
Originally posted by Ruffio:
Originally posted by peterspam:

That depends: if I keep a loyal group of companions I develop and rotate them in governor positions, I can always have an open slot for a fresh companion (wanderer) recruit and each new companion gets a fief of low importance.
Right now, I conquer a castle somewhere to teach an opponent a lesson, but I cannot remain there forever to fend off sieges, a free companion could do that. To leave a family member there is a waste, to pay for a costly vassal is a waste, but the wanderer pool is endless.

My aim is to have a dedicated character for each fief and that would be too costly by paying vassals, mid-game. If they are weak, they will have low influence anyway so cannot meddle into decisions. At leat I will not have to run around to wield off raids all over the map on fiefs where I do not have a family member as a governor..

Weak as in not able to field much in the term of party strenght. And they sure as heck wont have the ability to fend off sieges. And they not anymore loyal than whatever else clan you might recruit.
True, true.
peterspam Feb 9, 2023 @ 5:16pm 
Originally posted by Brocken:
How to turn vassal what did I miss

Once you have created a kingdom, you can turn any of your companions (the recruited ones from wanderer in taverns) and offer them a vassal role in your kingdom. They will then roam around and defend or attack enemies they see, gather troops, etc. If you give them a fief, they will (try to) maintain it, as far as AI are able to.
The reason I wanted to use them is because it is tiring to run around catching small groups of enemies who raid my villages all over the map. These vassals are doing a decent job (so far) that I have employed them. Of course they can become annoying in time, warmongering, starting armies instead of keeping raids in check, etc.
I am experimenting on the mechanics, so far mixed results but still better than doing the job alone.
Ruffio is right in that using existing vassals from other kingdoms is better as those are more powerful in their skillset. Usually they also have a network/clan already and do not need to start from scratch. Drawback is that they are expensive to bind to me, so far 250k+ is the cost per vassal, I have 30M cash and 60k+ influence.
Ruffio Feb 9, 2023 @ 8:57pm 
Originally posted by peterspam:
Originally posted by Brocken:
How to turn vassal what did I miss

Once you have created a kingdom, you can turn any of your companions (the recruited ones from wanderer in taverns) and offer them a vassal role in your kingdom. They will then roam around and defend or attack enemies they see, gather troops, etc. If you give them a fief, they will (try to) maintain it, as far as AI are able to.
The reason I wanted to use them is because it is tiring to run around catching small groups of enemies who raid my villages all over the map. These vassals are doing a decent job (so far) that I have employed them. Of course they can become annoying in time, warmongering, starting armies instead of keeping raids in check, etc.
I am experimenting on the mechanics, so far mixed results but still better than doing the job alone.
Ruffio is right in that using existing vassals from other kingdoms is better as those are more powerful in their skillset. Usually they also have a network/clan already and do not need to start from scratch. Drawback is that they are expensive to bind to me, so far 250k+ is the cost per vassal, I have 30M cash and 60k+ influence.

I haven't paid 250-500k for a clan to recruit in AGES. Just not a thing. -)

When you create clans out of companions you kinda not scraping the barrel anylonger. You are like digging in the dirt beneath it -)

Look for clans that have no fiefs, they come cheap. The stage before you form a kingdom is (at least for me), all about make standings with other clans. A clan that like you come easier and cheaper as well. But most important they need to be homeless, no fief.

Also create a vassal out of a companion come at a cost too.. You need to have a fief to give away. You need to fork up 20k gold + the needed influence. And if you want them to field any power worth they need wealth. So you should keep gift them cash to afford do things. If you enjoy use them, by all means but I find them little more than a gimmick how it works at current time.
peterspam Feb 10, 2023 @ 1:54am 
Originally posted by Ruffio:
Originally posted by peterspam:

Once you have created a kingdom, you can turn any of your companions (the recruited ones from wanderer in taverns) and offer them a vassal role in your kingdom. They will then roam around and defend or attack enemies they see, gather troops, etc. If you give them a fief, they will (try to) maintain it, as far as AI are able to.
The reason I wanted to use them is because it is tiring to run around catching small groups of enemies who raid my villages all over the map. These vassals are doing a decent job (so far) that I have employed them. Of course they can become annoying in time, warmongering, starting armies instead of keeping raids in check, etc.
I am experimenting on the mechanics, so far mixed results but still better than doing the job alone.
Ruffio is right in that using existing vassals from other kingdoms is better as those are more powerful in their skillset. Usually they also have a network/clan already and do not need to start from scratch. Drawback is that they are expensive to bind to me, so far 250k+ is the cost per vassal, I have 30M cash and 60k+ influence.

I haven't paid 250-500k for a clan to recruit in AGES. Just not a thing. -)

When you create clans out of companions you kinda not scraping the barrel anylonger. You are like digging in the dirt beneath it -)

Look for clans that have no fiefs, they come cheap. The stage before you form a kingdom is (at least for me), all about make standings with other clans. A clan that like you come easier and cheaper as well. But most important they need to be homeless, no fief.

Also create a vassal out of a companion come at a cost too.. You need to have a fief to give away. You need to fork up 20k gold + the needed influence. And if you want them to field any power worth they need wealth. So you should keep gift them cash to afford do things. If you enjoy use them, by all means but I find them little more than a gimmick how it works at current time.

TL;DR: You have convinced me :)

I watched this video from last summer, explaining the mechanics, based on thorough experimentation of the parameters (loyalty, wealth, fiefs, etc.). Strat Gaming concluded then that standing only contributes to 5% of the total amount you pay and it is almost all about whether a vassal has a fief or not. Which makes sense.
But now that I have 30M in the bank and the vassals I try to recruit are from kingdoms I reduce to a rubble (Battania, Sturgia and zero fiefs, some others just one left), the amounts they ask are still in the 250k+ ballpark.. And I really did try with vassals I have a good standing with, but it doesn't seem to matter.
So in my experience so far, none of the factors seem to contribute to a good deal: not my wealth, not my standing with the vassal, not the fact they are basically homeless and poor and desparate for a fief.

On the companion cost, you are right, I forgot about that: when I turned them, it cost money too. Not that it matters much when I smith a few 15k javelins in a minute to pay off either vassal or companion, but if the smithing ever gets nerfed (and I'm sure it will, in realistic mode), it will make all the difference.

To conclude: you're totally right in that it is better to use enemy vassals for the purpose and leave companions for reliable captains, smithing, governors, alley/hideout clearing, etc. The cost is about the same and a companion is a weaker alternative.
the only remaining aspect is that it takes time to chase down vassals to enlist, many are reluctant, it is a haggle when in the 200k ballpark, etc. And taking into account that war is about gaining AND losing fiefs, sometimes more is better. With companions, I just need to enter a tavern, recruit a wanderer and I have a cheap vassal for that odd fief that I know I will lose anyway during the next raid. Until then, the vassal will at least run around and protect the villages from being raided (as much as it manages to).
But yeah, it's a trade-off between quality and quantity and probably a strong vassal does a lot more to protect an area than a weak one-day wanderer. I don't have the experience to tell yet. Thanks for sharing yours, anyway :)
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Date Posted: Feb 9, 2023 @ 11:48am
Posts: 8