Kingdoms of Arda

[Feaden]

Tolkien's Middle Earth Mod:
Kingdoms of Arda is a Singleplayer & Multiplayer total conversion of Mount & Blade II Bannerlord, that brings the world of Tolkien into the game. This includes: characters, locations, weapons etc. from The Lord of the Rings, The Hobbit, Silmarillion and other works by Tolkien and media made for his universe.

Planned Features

• Middle Earth Campaign Map
  
• Multiplayer
  
• Story Mode: Play as your favourite characters in scenes from the books and films
  
• Many New Factions 35+
  
• Custom Map Icons & Custom Scenes
  
• Known Lords and Characters from LOTR, The Hobbit and other works of Tolkien
  
• New playable races: Elves, Dwarves, Dúnedain, Orcs, Hobbits, Goblins, Uruks
  
• New creatures: Trolls, Ents, Mumakils, Wargs and many more
  
• New Music and Audio
  
• Many New Troop Trees and Mercenaries
  
• New Weapons, Armours and Mounts
  
• LOTR related Banners
  
• New Companions
  
• New Quests
  
• Custom LOTR locations
  
• New siege equipment
  
• Many new features not seen in the native game
  
  

  First release will include:

• Gondor
  
• Rohan
  
• Mordor
  
• Isengard
  
• Harad
  
• Dunland
  
  

  Here is a article with some questions that have been frequently (and some not so frequently) asked questions about KoA (Kingdoms of Arda).

  
  -How long until KoA releases?
  It is impossible to answer this right now, it is still a long time until then. The mod tools have accelerated our production, but we can't and won't give a date.
  
  -What inspiration will KoA take from the movies, the books, TLD, etc?
  Our primary inspiration is from the main trilogy, the books will be used to supplement them in times of lack of creativity or poor choices. TLD is a big inspiration being the biggest LotR mod for Bannerlord's predecessor. We are familiar with the vast majority of LotR works, if we are not using ideas from one of them, its likely on purpose.
  
  -What art direction will this mod be taking?
  We will be following the Weta designs for the movies almost entirely. We will use other sources such as concept, Games Workshop and previous Lord of the Rings modifications. We will not follow much from Shadow of Mordor and LOTRO.
  
  -When will KoA take place in?
  January, 3016 T.A. (2 years before The Fellowship leaves Rivendell). It will be possible for the player to attend the Council of Elrond along with other events mentioned in the books & movies.
  
  -Where will KoA take place?
  We plan to cover a very large portion of Middle Earth (with the possibility to expand further south, north and east). Although first version will only cover Gondor, Rohan, Mordor, Isengard, Harad, and Dunland, the map will be expanded far in all directions. We will be detailing Middle-earth throughout the development of the mod.
  
  -Can you reforge Arnor?
  Arnor as part of the Reunited Kingdom, yes.
  
  -Can I join the Fellowship?
  -Yes you will be able to join The Fellowship if you are present at the Council of Elrond and have the right amount of influence etc. with certain characters. As an evil character you are able to oppose the Fellowship as well.
  
  -What races will there be?
  Playable races: Men, Dúnedain, Elves, Dwarves, Hobbits, Orcs, Goblins, Uruks *We do understand that orc and goblin describe the same thing. But the orcs from places like Moria and Goblin-Town will feature a different skeleton, facial features, skin tones, and body mass compared to an orc from somewhere like Mordor. We describe the race that typically lives in caves as "Goblins" and the ones elsewhere as "orcs". Non-playable: Trolls, Ents, Half-trolls, Oathbreakers (Ghosts), Barrow-wights Mounts: Wargs, Mumakil, Great Beasts
  
  -Will there be fellbeasts, dragons, chariots, boars, rams, goats, pigs, elk, deer or any similar type of mounts?
  No. Some of these would be impossible to add realistically and visually appealing to Bannerlord(fellbeasts and dragons). While the others are not lore-accurate, break balance (dwarven cavalry), and not visually appealing to the team, so the amount of work to put in these complex mounts would not be worth it. We will include new skeletons for various races like hobbits, dwarves, wargs, trolls, goblins etc. We plan to add Gollum as well, but it all depends if we can make visual appealing animations.
  
  -Will it be possible to kill certain characters (Frodo, Aragorn, Saruman etc.)?
  Yes! It is possible to kill pretty much everyone, but if they are known characters they will be more unlikely to die. Characters like the Nazgûl can’t be killed until Sauron is destroyed.
  
  -What are the factions and settlements?
  There will be approximately be 25 major factions factions with a large spattering of minor factions.
  
  -Will you take advantage of the crafting system?
  Currently we have no plans for using the crafting system.
  
  -Can I create my own kingdom, castle or be king?
  No. The player can be a lord and own land, but not be a faction leader.
  
  -Will music from the films be added?
  No, this is not needed because our musicians will make our own soundtrack.
  
  -What is story mode?
  Story mode is entirely separate from our campaign. It is a series of scenarios that can be played from the perspective of a hero or soldier. Examples are Aragorn at Helm’s Deep or Éowyn at the Battle of Pelennor Fields.
  
  -Can I donate money to the modding team?
  No, we are not accepting donations.
  
  -Can I help?
  If you would like to apply to the team, please look at #recruitment on the discord.
  
  

  Edit:

  Discord - Youtube and OST links have been removed due to steam rules.
  
  Thank you all so much for your support.

[Clovis Sangrail]

-Has this been licensed by the Tolkien Estate?

[Ruffio]

Originally posted by Clovis Sangrail:

-Has this been licensed by the Tolkien Estate?

Not the first time conversions and mods get shut down by threats of lawsuits. The works of Tolkien is not public domain to be used as pleased. Not even when it come to non profit.
Regardless, good luck to them on the project.

https://www.middleearth.com/licensing-guidelines.html

[Clovis Sangrail]

And it looks like they (Tolkien Estate) are serious about that ♥♥♥♥.

https://www.tolkienestate.com/frequently-asked-questions-and-links/

[Roman Legionary]

Originally posted by Clovis Sangrail:

And it looks like they (Tolkien Estate) are serious about that ♥♥♥♥.

https://www.tolkienestate.com/frequently-asked-questions-and-links/

And then they give the license to the clowns behind Gollum game...

[Ruffio]

Originally posted by Roman Legionary:

Originally posted by Clovis Sangrail:

And it looks like they (Tolkien Estate) are serious about that ♥♥♥♥.

https://www.tolkienestate.com/frequently-asked-questions-and-links/

And then they give the license to the clowns behind Gollum game...

I'm quite sure they got PAID for that. Just because you buy license rights to an IP doesn't necessary mean you make something good out of it. Just look at how bad EA did handle their license for Star Wars over the years.

[Clovis Sangrail]

Originally posted by Ruffio:

I'm quite sure they got PAID for that.

From reading those two websites, I'm pretty sure that the Tolkein Estate doesn't give away anything.

[Ruffio]

Originally posted by Clovis Sangrail:

Originally posted by Ruffio:

I'm quite sure they got PAID for that.

From reading those two websites, I'm pretty sure that the Tolkein Estate doesn't give away anything.

Only way to get around it would probably be going heavy on "parody", but I don't really see anyone release such a conversion that is fully a parody. (an imitation of the style of a particular writer, artist, or genre with deliberate exaggeration for comic effect.")

[Clovis Sangrail]

Originally posted by Ruffio:

Originally posted by Clovis Sangrail:

From reading those two websites, I'm pretty sure that the Tolkein Estate doesn't give away anything.

Only way to get around it would probably be going heavy on "parody", but I don't really see anyone release such a conversion that is fully a parody. (an imitation of the style of a particular writer, artist, or genre with deliberate exaggeration for comic effect.")

That's what the world needs -- a 'Bored of the Rings' video game. Follow the adventures of Arrowroot, Gimlet, Legolamb, and the boggies Frito Buggers, Spam, Moxie and Pepsi as they trek across Lower Middle Earth on their way to the land of Fordor.

"Boggies are an unattractive but annoying people. Slow and sullen, and yet dull, they prefer to lead simple lives of pastoral squalor. They don't like machines more complicated than a blackjack, garrote or lugar, and they tend to avoid big folk except on those occasions when a hundred or so get together to dry-gulch a farmer."

Or something close to that. My memory isn't what it used to be, but then, it never was.

Edited to add -- Hoom-hah! There was a video game -- a text adventure in 1985 -- https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bored_of_the_Rings_(video_game). How did I ever miss that? I had the Hitchhikers Guide to the Galaxy text adventure.

[RJboxer]

Originally posted by Clovis Sangrail:

Originally posted by Ruffio:

Only way to get around it would probably be going heavy on "parody", but I don't really see anyone release such a conversion that is fully a parody. (an imitation of the style of a particular writer, artist, or genre with deliberate exaggeration for comic effect.")

That's what the world needs -- a 'Bored of the Rings' video game. Follow the adventures of Arrowroot, Gimlet, Legolamb, and the boggies Frito Buggers, Spam, Moxie and Pepsi as they trek across Lower Middle Earth on their way to the land of Fordor.

"Boggies are an unattractive but annoying people. Slow and sullen, and yet dull, they prefer to lead simple lives of pastoral squalor. They don't like machines more complicated than a blackjack, garrote or lugar, and they tend to avoid big folk except on those occasions when a hundred or so get together to dry-gulch a farmer."

Or something close to that. My memory isn't what it used to be, but then, it never was.

Edited to add -- Hoom-hah! There was a video game -- a text adventure in 1985 -- https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bored_of_the_Rings_(video_game). How did I ever miss that? I had the Hitchhikers Guide to the Galaxy text adventure.

I'd play that.

I wanna be Boredomir

[Morkonan]

Originally posted by Ruffio:

Originally posted by Clovis Sangrail:

From reading those two websites, I'm pretty sure that the Tolkein Estate doesn't give away anything.

Only way to get around it would probably be going heavy on "parody", but I don't really see anyone release such a conversion that is fully a parody. (an imitation of the style of a particular writer, artist, or genre with deliberate exaggeration for comic effect.")

There are plenty of ways to "get around it." They just can't involve money or making excessive use of copyrighted material. "Trademarked" works, however, are an insta-kill even for heavily modified from its original form copyright use for the intent of a fan or artistic work...

The Total War mod for the Lord of the Rings ran afoul of this. It was legit pulled, for a time. It wasn't due to the Tolkien Estate, though. They had already sold the licensing for electronic games, and it was due to the license-holder for the electronic game licensing for the works, Warner Bros or Electronic Arts (one of those). It didn't last terribly long and the mod was back online.

(Note: Amazon has rights for the development of certain aspects of the IP, but, in effect, they have creative license over basically... stuff that wasn't written about... and that doesn't exist in the IP or some ludicrous crap like that, but they do have license for certain names/places/etc to use when skimming their crap off the top of their creative bowl. I "think" that includes some form of electronic entertainment (game) too. Unsure.)

"Mods" aren't generally regarded as products that violate copyright in-and-of-themselves. They can, however, easily violate "trademark" by including ™ graphics, fonts, color schemes, etc... things directly recognizable as being a trademark of a third party. In general, they are viewed as electronic "art" that may be derived from a copyrighted work, but that are significantly altered enough that they qualify as, more or less, creatively new. That is permissible with copyrighted work. It is not permissible, within certain narrow constraints, with trademarked work. (And, "music copyright" is an entirely different beast...)

IF anyone would come after a mod team for this, it would not be the Tolkien Estate. It'd be the current license-holder for those creative media rights. (Whoever it is atm, dunno, maybe EA or still WB or Amazon or who-knows?) The question there is really what damages could be claimed. IIRC, the claim that was sort of pushed in the Total War situation was that the legal license holder was developing their own full game around the IP and they were leaning on the notion that the "mod" would detract from their profit potential.

There is the notion that a mod which is dependent on a commercial product in order to function could be linked to that for-profit scheme in some way, but that's darn hard to do in reality when a mod-team isn't seeing a dime for it. BUT - Put one link to "donations accepted" on a mod download page and that protection gets blown out of the water and the doors of the courtroom could very well open very wide... But, the motivation to sue, being about $33.95 in donations representing "lost profits" would be very low.

Edit: Note to the random reader - I am not an attorney. This is not legal advise. Cough up some money and pay an attorney instead of relying on anon posts on teh interwebz if one is looking for "legal advice." (Or, go to that legal advice subreddit that has verified attorneys willing to chime in for free.)

[Ruffio]

Originally posted by Morkonan:

Originally posted by Ruffio:

Only way to get around it would probably be going heavy on "parody", but I don't really see anyone release such a conversion that is fully a parody. (an imitation of the style of a particular writer, artist, or genre with deliberate exaggeration for comic effect.")

There are plenty of ways to "get around it." They just can't involve money or making excessive use of copyrighted material. "Trademarked" works, however, are an insta-kill even for heavily modified from its original form copyright use for the intent of a fan or artistic work...

The Total War mod for the Lord of the Rings ran afoul of this. It was legit pulled, for a time. It wasn't due to the Tolkien Estate, though. They had already sold the licensing for electronic games, and it was due to the license-holder for the electronic game licensing for the works, Warner Bros or Electronic Arts (one of those). It didn't last terribly long and the mod was back online.

(Note: Amazon has rights for the development of certain aspects of the IP, but, in effect, they have creative license over basically... stuff that wasn't written about... and that doesn't exist in the IP or some ludicrous crap like that, but they do have license for certain names/places/etc to use when skimming their crap off the top of their creative bowl. I "think" that includes some form of electronic entertainment (game) too. Unsure.)

"Mods" aren't generally regarded as products that violate copyright in-and-of-themselves. They can, however, easily violate "trademark" by including ™ graphics, fonts, color schemes, etc... things directly recognizable as being a trademark of a third party. In general, they are viewed as electronic "art" that may be derived from a copyrighted work, but that are significantly altered enough that they qualify as, more or less, creatively new. That is permissible with copyrighted work. It is not permissible, within certain narrow constraints, with trademarked work. (And, "music copyright" is an entirely different beast...)

IF anyone would come after a mod team for this, it would not be the Tolkien Estate. It'd be the current license-holder for those creative media rights. (Whoever it is atm, dunno, maybe EA or still WB or Amazon or who-knows?) The question there is really what damages could be claimed. IIRC, the claim that was sort of pushed in the Total War situation was that the legal license holder was developing their own full game around the IP and they were leaning on the notion that the "mod" would detract from their profit potential.

There is the notion that a mod which is dependent on a commercial product in order to function could be linked to that for-profit scheme in some way, but that's darn hard to do in reality when a mod-team isn't seeing a dime for it. BUT - Put one link to "donations accepted" on a mod download page and that protection gets blown out of the water and the doors of the courtroom could very well open very wide... But, the motivation to sue, being about $33.95 in donations representing "lost profits" would be very low.

Edit: Note to the random reader - I am not an attorney. This is not legal advise. Cough up some money and pay an attorney instead of relying on anon posts on teh interwebz if one is looking for "legal advice." (Or, go to that legal advice subreddit that has verified attorneys willing to chime in for free.)

There is people writing fan fiction based on different IP's that got threats of lawsuits if they didn't cease. Even you make up fictional characters and storylines inside worlds/creations based on IP's out there you at the mercy of the powers to be. Even you don't make a dime from it.

There is things majority of the license holders just don't want to be connected the franchise. Doesn't really matter what it is as long as its tied to the IP in question. Remember I was looking forward to the SW KOTOR conversion mod Apeiron. Was in development in like 3 years then Lucasfilm sent their lawdogs and shut it down. Then again Lucasfilm been vergy "gung ho" when it come to shut down fan projects though. The larger and more known the IP is the bigger risk of a brick wall coming down on you for infringe on it. Several examples of larger projects that been going on for years that been shut down in similar fashion, and the only way to get around it is to go into "extreme parody".

[Legate Nullus]

There's already been a Middle Earth total conversion mod for original M&B and Warband for over a decade. I doubt that there's any real reason to worry about this one getting shut down.

[Ruffio]

Originally posted by Legate Nullus:

There's already been a Middle Earth total conversion mod for original M&B and Warband for over a decade. I doubt that there's any real reason to worry about this one getting shut down.

Might want to check with teh Toliken estate to see if they eagree? If they should worry that is.

[Morkonan]

Originally posted by Ruffio:

There is people writing fan fiction based on different IP's that got threats of lawsuits if they didn't cease. Even you make up fictional characters and storylines inside worlds/creations based on IP's out there you at the mercy of the powers to be. Even you don't make a dime from it.

Note: I don't disagree that any IP/Copyright/Trademark holder can choose to pursue what it may claim to be a "violation" for any reason that can allow them to write a check to their attorney to print out a letter. That may not be as likely to be successful, though, just because they issued the challenge.

(Just in my opinion and I am not an attorney. Also, laws vary across borders and protecting IP ownership/rights is more of a mutually-agreed-upon sort of thing ("Treaty"-ish?) and is done according to each independent country's laws. Some countries don't do much of that, though... (India's "Bollywood" is an infamous example of that.))

They can get molested by IP owners trying to protect their bits, but they're not going to get sued for free "fan fiction." There's no basis for them to have violated copyright for a creative and freely offered bit of fan-fiction if it is... and here's the stickler.. "Transformative." That's why those people get away with the whole Kirk&Spock lovestory junk. (Images, graphics, color-schemes and other visual things including some words/names can cause Trademark infringement, though, which doesn't have much leeway.) I am not an attorney. :)

There is things majority of the license holders just don't want to be connected the franchise. Doesn't really matter what it is as long as its tied to the IP in question. Remember I was looking forward to the SW KOTOR conversion mod Apeiron. Was in development in like 3 years then Lucasfilm sent their lawdogs and shut it down. Then again Lucasfilm been vergy "gung ho" when it come to shut down fan projects though. The larger and more known the IP is the bigger risk of a brick wall coming down on you for infringe on it. Several examples of larger projects that been going on for years that been shut down in similar fashion, and the only way to get around it is to go into "extreme parody".

There are, as you relate, some IP holders that will "aggressively defend against any potential violation of their property." And, some of those are big enough to have entire floors of attorneys doing nothing but waiting for a call to arms... Like the above mention of that one LotR mod for Total War, there was a push by Lucasfilms/whatever when a mod came out for... something related to the "Empire at War" IP. (4x game, pretty darn great!) I can't recall it exactly, but much like the WB/EA dust-up with the LotR mod, they cited that the mod infringed on their IP due to their intent to make another game. (Still waiting on that one... :/)

The issues with mods for PC Games comes into stark relief with two bits, IMO: The most important is "Music." That's A Big Deal ™ and, even more betterer, it's easily searched for as any youtuber out there can attest to. So, it's easy to troll for music rights. The other part is Trademarked graphics. Once again, WB/EA stomped on one project, but I can't recall what it was, sorry, because that project used Empire and Rebel insignia and symbols ripped directly off of Trademarked publications. (I once did some Star Wars 3D stuff (Uniforms/spacesuit stuffs) and had to alter the symbols and icons a bit just because a) I'm not stoopid and b) I actively respect/protect copyright and trademark rights /shrug. :) I also changed a few color schemes so they're were a bit different. "Trademarks" are supposed to be recognizable symbols of an intellectual property and anything that has those symbols on it can infer IP ownership, which makes those IP owners nervous. (I don't think they'd like the "Shrek: The Gif" gifs... especially if it had Donkey in it with a big Disnoy logo plastered on it. :))


The big issue is the profile of the potential infringement and whether or not the IP holder can avoid seeing it... IOW - If they can claim ignorance, then they can possibly have any weakening of their claim due to non-enforcement. It wouldn't be weaker because of that, but then the violator wouldn't be able to claim any kind of permission or agreement at all due to "Well, they knew, and I took their inaction as assent" or some such. If this mod, for instance, made the nightly news, the mod-team might get a letter...

Another issue is whether or not the IP holder does more damage to their holding by acting what can be seen as "frivolously" to protect it and actually doing the dirty work they're afraid of, themselves. The reason Kirk&Spock porn doesn't get stomped on is that Paramount probably doesn't want people to know there's Rule#34 Kirk&Spock out there.


I am not an attorney. But, the only thing that I think would prompt any raising of eyebrows associated with this fan project is use of music tracks ripped directly from I.P./soundtracks.

[RJboxer]

My ex-wife was an Attorney. An IP attorney at that (then switched to Product Liability Defense)... Yes, she was at a big firm. There are no "small firms" regarding PL Defense, or IP defense.

Long ago, we discussed what gets someone sued (shhh. Secret. She once had to buy some website from some 20 yr old.. who owned some weird dumb name, I forget. But Pepsi wanted it. So they hire a firm to buy it all secret like.. Kid got 3500 bucks. Knew it was from a big company, but didnt know who. Felt like he was getting robbed. He wasn't. That was 20 years ago, and Pepsi never used that name as far as I know. So kid got a free 3500 bucks). Anyway, we discussed why pepsi doesn't just sue the kid. Since they Trademarked the name.. and he was now a "squatter". On that domain name, with no use. Let's pretend it was Purple Soda. (it wasn't). Pepsi trademarks/copyrights (I forget which is for which, and it is far more complicated than googling those words). And now owns PURPLE SODA. Well kid is squatting on PurpleSoda.com and has it as a blank page.

It is NOW pepsi's if they want it. why not sue? why pay the kid 3500?

Well, there are MULTIPLE small trash companies that buy patents/trademarks/copyrights.. thats all they do, then have their own private mini law firms, that sue over and over.. For millions, and settle for "tens of thousands". That is the WHOLE business plan. Own the IP, sue others. Google it. There are many firms like this. Why do companies "settle". because 100 grand is NOTHING to a big firm, compared to their legal fees. So to fight off the IP troll, is a minimum of 100k, maybe 2-5 million. what if You win? you might get some legal fees back? good luck. That firm goes bankrupt, and re-orgs under a new name.

Anyway. That's why they settle.
Why don'they sue? Same reason Wizards of The Coast bowed to pressure on the new OGL license. They have every legal right in the known world.. to do whatever they want with it. but they tried pulling a fast one, and their customers revolted. DnD suffered tremendously. And after a week, Backed off the new plan, and in fact to TRY and stop the impending revolt (which is probably too late) made a new OGL that is MORE free than the old one, and made it irrevocable. In other words "stay with us, we effed up, we made it better, and can NEVER revoke it" (this was all in the last month)

In Business they lost "Goodwill". yep, that's a thing and it has a VALUE on the balance sheet.

So can Tolkien and their scummy overlords (do research on them and their trash IP protection, they are like the cthulu scrubs) easily sue? yep. Anyone. . And they have more money than you. They'd win. FOR SURE.
But at what cost? another Wizards of the Coast fiasco?

Some folks making a fan fiction, or homage in a Mod for a game might hit Tolkien radar.

Tolkien estate and their money hungry leeches (the living ones never did anything for the IP, just leech off it. Kind of like the Chicago Bears Current Ownership) used to go after tons of people just so it had more value in negotiations for their Next (88th ??) LotR game. Or NEXT (112th ??) new tv/movie/book/cartoon. So Yeah. they could. But I doubt they would.

TLDR: Any IP holder can sue for any reason. Small firms are far more likely. Tolkien is rare in that they are a famous Brand who also are D-Bags and go after non-harming entities paying homage to their father/grandfather who created the Tolkien world. Even so, they'd have to be utter morons to go after some modder in Warband who made a non offensive, non racist, totally neutral Politically correct mod for a game that most people never heard of.

I missed the DnD rage, but totally would have been all over their forums and petitions if I had. By the time I heard about it, it was 2 days into the fiasco, and WoTC was already Done. They lost, and knew it. it took about 2-3 weeks to surrender. And it is too late probably. But if Tolkien went after a modder in a game? hahahaha. I'd be ALL over that. And getting all my friends from OTHER games to also swarm the forums/petitions/reddits etc.

I'm sure I wouldnt be the only one. And I don't even like the LoTR mod for warband lol.