Pugios smithing balance

[Maero]

a 200 denar dagger that is sold in hundreds in towns and gives you 1 fine steel,1 steel,1 iron, 2 wrought iron. it's crazy

[Ruffio]

And NO ONE forces you to buy them and smelt them -)

[Maero]

exactly,just like the overall smithing balance.Doesn't mean this shouldn't be adressed and potentially patched

[Claytonium]

So you think the pugio is overpowered.
I take it you never noticed tribesmen throwing daggers...

[Lord Savage]

Pls do something with broken economy first. Smithing second.

[seedmole]

It takes significant investment to increase the amount you can smelt per stamina refresh. It's probably one of the most balanced things in the game. The only way it's "unbalanced" is if you ignore how much time you have to rest in cities to keep doing it (which prevents you from doing literally anything else in the game, so the payoff better be huge).

[Clovis Sangrail]

Originally posted by seedmole:

The only way it's "unbalanced" is if you ignore how much time you have to rest in cities to keep doing it (which prevents you from doing literally anything else in the game, so the payoff better be huge).

That time is not wasted. Why do you think my main Dougal and his wife the lovely Corein have 8 kids?

[dichebach]

Originally posted by seedmole:

It takes significant investment to increase the amount you can smelt per stamina refresh. It's probably one of the most balanced things in the game. The only way it's "unbalanced" is if you ignore how much time you have to rest in cities to keep doing it (which prevents you from doing literally anything else in the game, so the payoff better be huge).

^ THIS ^

Even though Smithing is incredibly "powerful" it is also incredibly grindy. To me, if it were equally grindy and 10% less powerful, it would not be worth it, and I simply wouldn't play that part of the game.

So with that in mind, I have to disagree with the OP completely.

Please TaleWorlds, do not listen to this sort of suggestion: leave Smithing alone. It is already so grindy that people who are perfectly aware how powerful it is forego using it simply because it is so grindy. Nerfing a feature so that it is as unfun as possible is not "good balance."

[Maero]

I mean you can turn a 200 denar item into a 1000(depending on the market) denars in mats,there isnt much smithing in that

[Clovis Sangrail]

Originally posted by Maero:

I mean you can turn a 200 denar item into a 1000(depending on the market) denars in mats,there isnt much smithing in that

If we're talking about things that are over-powered, let's not leave out battle loot, which allows you to take a town and walk away with tens of thousands, if not hundreds of thousands, of denars of battle loot and prisoner ransom.

But we don't see the battle fanbois complaining about that, do we?

[dichebach]

Originally posted by Maero:

I mean you can turn a 200 denar item into a 1000(depending on the market) denars in mats,there isnt much smithing in that

What is it you are referring to?

The whole principle of economics is to buy low and sell high. One can accomplish this many ways: buy low "here," travel over "there" (where prices are higher) and sell is one.

Another is to buy raw materials here, process raw materials here, and then sell finished product here. The workshops represent that.

Another is to buy raw materials and make weapons out of them, the value of which far exceeds the value of the raw materials used to make the weapon because of its utility or aesthetics. Even in this case, "not much smithing" is required. One could buy a small amount of iron ore and hard woods in a location where they are cheap, and even with low level Smithing and few schematics, use those raw materials to produce items (weapons) which are easily 2x or even 5x more valuable than the raw materials. At the high end this ratio of cost to benefit becomes enormous (e.g., couple hundreds Denars worth of steel to produce weapons that sell for tens of thousands of Denars).

For example: in my current session with a player with Smithing up in the 200 ballpark . . . I have a design that is pretty cheap in materials but pretty decent in sales value, an ugly 2-handed sword with the bulbous blade.

Uses 4 iron (78 D in the town I'm currently in) and 4 Steel (202 D) (both inflated values because that is what the trader will pay me to buy the materials.

312 worth of iron + 808 worth of steel + 43 (for charcoal) = 1,163 material production costs.

The thing sells for 13,263 D at my toons present skill level, and in this particular town. At an earlier stage the exact same design sold for only about 8308 D based on what I noted in the text document where I save good designs for repeated use. That may partly be due to how the game is calculating demand for 2-handed weapons at the earlier time and present time, and it probably depends a lot on my characters smithing skill level having doubled roughly.

13,263 / 1,163 = 1,140% profit . . .

All of this to say: it isn't just pugios which are "insane," Smithing is the promised land in this game, as it should be.

[justfaded]

Originally posted by dichebach:

Originally posted by seedmole:

It takes significant investment to increase the amount you can smelt per stamina refresh. It's probably one of the most balanced things in the game. The only way it's "unbalanced" is if you ignore how much time you have to rest in cities to keep doing it (which prevents you from doing literally anything else in the game, so the payoff better be huge).

^ THIS ^

Even though Smithing is incredibly "powerful" it is also incredibly grindy. To me, if it were equally grindy and 10% less powerful, it would not be worth it, and I simply wouldn't play that part of the game.

So with that in mind, I have to disagree with the OP completely.

Please TaleWorlds, do not listen to this sort of suggestion: leave Smithing alone. It is already so grindy that people who are perfectly aware how powerful it is forego using it simply because it is so grindy. Nerfing a feature so that it is as unfun as possible is not "good balance."

Smithing is not grindy. I can take a brand new character and max out smithing in one play session. Maybe 3 hours max.

[justfaded]

They should really overhaul smithing, make it not have the 2 perks that increase attributes and lower value of crafted weapons. And make smithing more about crafting the looks of a weapon you would like to use.

As it is, it's basically a money cheat that is also mandatory for min maxers. At the very least, take out the 2 perks. Anybody know if the perk overhaul in the beta changed that in any way?

[dichebach]

Originally posted by justfaded:

They should really overhaul smithing, make it not have the 2 perks that increase attributes and lower value of crafted weapons. And make smithing more about crafting the looks of a weapon you would like to use.

As it is, it's basically a money cheat that is also mandatory for min maxers. At the very least, take out the 2 perks. Anybody know if the perk overhaul in the beta changed that in any way?

What they should really do is: anything which makes the game less fun for anyone but me! Amirite!?

[dichebach]

Originally posted by justfaded:

Originally posted by dichebach:

^ THIS ^

Even though Smithing is incredibly "powerful" it is also incredibly grindy. To me, if it were equally grindy and 10% less powerful, it would not be worth it, and I simply wouldn't play that part of the game.

So with that in mind, I have to disagree with the OP completely.

Please TaleWorlds, do not listen to this sort of suggestion: leave Smithing alone. It is already so grindy that people who are perfectly aware how powerful it is forego using it simply because it is so grindy. Nerfing a feature so that it is as unfun as possible is not "good balance."

Smithing is not grindy. I can take a brand new character and max out smithing in one play session. Maybe 3 hours max.

But, can you ALSO become the champion of the Tournament leaders board by the end of that very same session and get married to Svana during the half-time ceremonies? If not, git gud

[justfaded]

What are you droning about? Smithing is hilariously OP. If you want infinite money, just use a mod or something.

And 3 hours is 3 hours. It's not grindy, that's the point you're missing.