TROOP MANAGEMENT

[Niyugunzake]

why was the ability to change what type of group your troops were in aka sword, bow, horse, horse archer, removed from the game? now i constantly have archers and fighters mixed into one group... and can't set it to JUST fighters and JUST archers... what gives? why remove such a wonderful addition to the game?

[GIJoe597]

I will never not believe it was done for consoles.

[Rhapsody]

The original system would not have worked with the armies due to how many different types of troops there are in the game. You'd have to go grab at least 1 of each troop in the game to your party to be able to set its formation. Furthermore, the AI would never understand your custom formations beyond the four default types.

The current system works fine if you know how to make it work. The percentage ratio of formations takes higher priority over weapon preference.

[Rhapsody]

Originally posted by Sheepify:

Oh, and by the by, there's a mod that restores the previous formation assignments and, last I looked at the posts from users, did so without issues.

Might as well use that then. As for me, I don't need it because the old system doesn't provide any real advantage over the current one. It only has drawbacks in the form of 1) not be able to change formations depending on battle terrain and 2) requiring me to go out of my way and set each troop's formation to custom if I needed something like dedicated line of javelin throwers, unshielded shock troops or to separate archers and crossbowmen from each other. One way they could have mitigated the latter issue is by allowing the player to set each troop's formation from the encyclopedia or another interface, but even that'd result in unnecessary amount of work with the game interface currently in use (where it's impossible to select multiple troops in party interface for example).

At least now there's actual support in the game for separating unshielded and shielded infantry, and all the other such equipment-based "divisions", even if it's still only available to the player. In future they (or modders?) could make it work for the AI as well.

[Hoady]

This is possibly the greatest act of self-sabotage Taleworlds has inflicted on the game, but there have been others. It used to be an excellent combat sim. You want to protect your archers from enemy cavalry with spearmen while your swordsmen are in the assault, but its impossible to organise that now. Thanks for the heads up on the mod. I'll try it.

[Niyugunzake]

what mod was it that re-enables it? for the formations thing. cause you didn't specify which mod....

[pelerinli]

Pre-battle deployment is good, but only if troops are pre-defined and it is not ambush by enemy. Right now, there is no ambush by AI I believe (since there is no sneaky traveling nor night rests) and auto-defined troops are for so average tactics, especially if you use RBM or something like that for realism.

In previous system, I can decide what to do and place my soldiers in a minute and be ready since I've pre-defined them. But right now, maybe two minutes goes into checking them and meanwhile, no advances made by enemy, which is immersion-breaking and absurd. Enemy should have advantages like I do, which brings the chess-like fun.

That said; I believe mix of both is best, having pre-defined groups and pre-battle deployment together.

[Rhapsody]

Another thing you can do with the current system is to split up identical forces into two or more parts. It should be useful if you're running Fians only for example, making it easier to space out archer lines, or having proper "wings" of cavalry to flank your infantry.

Originally posted by Sheepify:

Originally posted by Rhapsody:

Might as well use that then. As for me, I don't need it because the old system doesn't provide any real advantage over the current one.

You don't need it. OK, got it already long ago.

That's not the same as objectively saying it's not needed.

Almost nobody making these threads can explain what it is that the old system enabled that you can't do with the current formations, except having easier time managing all the companions as a whole, but that is a waste anyways because they should be a) used as captains or b) not be present in battle at all and acting as governors and so on instead.

They could have left both systems in place but redundancy is redundancy.

[FourGreenFields]

Originally posted by Rhapsody:

The current system works fine if you know how to make it work.

Then please tell me how to. I used to think it worked "fine" for the basic "one blob of each" (but not for most more advanced tactics, like separate skirmisher or shock-troop formations), but now it's reliably putting infantry in my cavalry formation, and I have to make a 2. infantry formation, remove it again, and then set niassen as captain of the cavalry again (for easier javelining, because I want him dead). Which is a PITA.

[Rhapsody]

Originally posted by FourGreenFields:

Originally posted by Rhapsody:

The current system works fine if you know how to make it work.

Then please tell me how to.

The key aspect is that the percentage ratio takes priority over equipment preference. Then it's just a matter of using the preference as a means of excluding troops from that formation. For example, let's take a look at Vlandia...

Infantry 1: Shield preference. Since only Sergeant branch of troops have shields, they'll go here. If you don't have many sergeants, you could use this as mixed infantry+ranged formation, using some of your crossbowmen as shield wall.

Ranged 2: This is where all ranged troops go by default. If you've taken on some Fians or something, you can give this formation shield preference to designate it for your crossbowmen (unless they lack shields of course, but top tier crossbows all have shields).

Cavalry 3: You might want to split up your cavalry into two formations if there's many of them (and there should, with Vlandia). But there shouldn't be any need to fiddle with their preferences since vanguards and BKs have identical role in battle.

Infantry 5: Using polearm preference will make Pikemen go here.

Infantry 6: No preference. If you adjust this formation small enough, it should make any only Voulgiers go here, without putting any Pikemen or Sergeants to fill the gaps, or vice versa if you have many voulgiers.

Cavalry 7: The other half of your cavalry, possibly. Set the ratio to 50% or something else. If you delegate command to this formation and the original cavalry formation, they should automatically understand if they should attack flanks or protect your infantry.

Mystery formation 8: This is probably for your surgeon (as captain) and maybe in future for companions.

As for companions, they need to have their gear set up properly and as identically as possible to that of regular troops. In case of any archers for example, that means putting bow in the the first slot of weapons.

[FourGreenFields]

Originally posted by Rhapsody:

Originally posted by FourGreenFields:

Then please tell me how to.

The key aspect is that the percentage ratio takes priority over equipment preference.

Then please tell me how to change that, because the slider is locked if there's no second formation of the same kind.

And also tell me how to set that to the ratio of troops currently present, because you seem to think that system works for separate e.g. pikeman groups. No, counting troops or looking through your 100 man infantry formation to see if any are left does not count.

[Rhapsody]

Originally posted by FourGreenFields:

Originally posted by Rhapsody:

The key aspect is that the percentage ratio takes priority over equipment preference.

Then please tell me how to change that, because the slider is locked if there's no second formation of the same kind.

You need to have another formation with same troop type. It's the same deal as allocating enough custom formations in the old system.

[FourGreenFields]

Originally posted by Rhapsody:

Originally posted by FourGreenFields:

Then please tell me how to change that, because the slider is locked if there's no second formation of the same kind.

You need to have another formation with same troop type. It's the same deal as allocating enough custom formations in the old system.

So what you're saying is the system is broken, and will put troops where they don't belong.

[Rhapsody]

Originally posted by FourGreenFields:

Originally posted by Rhapsody:

You need to have another formation with same troop type. It's the same deal as allocating enough custom formations in the old system.

So what you're saying is the system is broken, and will put troops where they don't belong.

lol no it means that if you need to put certain troops somewhere, you need to have a formation for them.

[Rhapsody]

Here for example is a small force with infantry line, javelin thrower line, cavalry, and mounted skirmisher line. There's also just me and a companion as horse archers, and the off-screen ranged infantry.

https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=2895678084

[Rhapsody]

Originally posted by Sheepify:

The new system does not allow you to put exact specific troop into exact formation.

Originally posted by Rhapsody:

the old system doesn't provide any real advantage over the current one.

That's exactly what I was referring to.

Please provide some real scenario in the game where utilizing your limited number of custom formation to place specific type of troop somewhere actually contributes to a battle.