More taxes from fiefs?

[Lord Savage]

Realy how do you earn money when you dont want to "cheating" with smithing?
When i lure some lord to my faction he wants about 200-400k gold.
If i forbid smithing and play only with income from shops, trade, fiefs, caravans and spoils of war it takes forever to make enough gold.
Not mention if you are in mid - late game with profesional "grinded" Army you probablly loosing 5k daily.
I say town with prosperity 8000 should give you 8000gold not around 3700...
You should feel it on your pocket when you own rich town. You will search for rich towns which will pay your wars. And rich town should be able maintain large number of good troops in garrision.
But not only town even castle or villages.
Player will care more about fief when they will get something in return.
Even npc cant handle their pocket. After they recive those 400k gold they become rich.
But maybe moth later they are only average and later poor...
Npc clan is rich only when they own like 10 fiefs filled only with millitia.

[Kernest]

I think I have yet to run into a situation where owning a town would not be profitable. You get taxes from the town, the villages and even a bit of tariff income.

If you're not making money, then that's because your garrison is too expensive.

Also, a late game "professional" army causing you to lose 5K daily is a choice you made.

[Fryskar]

Praise khorne and slaughter.
A single battle with your army costing 5k (i asume mostly t5-6, 300-450) should easily yield 20-40k in loot, then another 5-20k from prisoners.

[Snowieken]

1. It takes time to build up a fief until it is very profitable. You've got to take care of loyalty and food first, then worry about buildings like extra taxes or reduction in garrison wages. But yeah, as mentioned above, the balance should always be positive unless your garrison is way too big, so that's probably your problem at the moment.

2. A 5k expense for an army in mid - to late game is not a bad guess, but you need to be able to sustain that - if not, reduce your army or you're going to be facing a race against your expenses every day, which is not fun and harder in peace time when you can't fight enemy lords. It does sound like you ignored your economy too much while building up your forces too quickly.

3. Many people claim workshops suck because they do the math wrong. "I invested 25k in that and it only gives 300 back, so it's a waste of money". No, it's not, as it gives you that 300 passive income. While it does take a long time to earn your initial investment back, in the mean time you lose less money daily - provided you're picking the right workshops and spend some time helping them out.
Passive income is not there to make you rich, that's what war is for by selling loot and prisoners. Passive income is how you maintain that wealth. Don't ignore workshops or caravans, they're a good addition to your passive income if you can afford the initial investment.

[Damedius]

Originally posted by Snowieken:

3. Many people claim workshops suck because they do the math wrong. "I invested 25k in that and it only gives 300 back, so it's a waste of money".

They do kind of suck.

They can only be placed in certain towns. It takes awhile to build up the prosperity of that town. They get erased if you go to war with a faction that the workshops are in, severely limiting where you can place them. To top it all off, one tournament or crafted two handed weapon brings in more income.

The economy is broken in the game and Tale Worlds doesn't care about fixing it.

[Fryskar]

Originally posted by Damedius:

Originally posted by Snowieken:

3. Many people claim workshops suck because they do the math wrong. "I invested 25k in that and it only gives 300 back, so it's a waste of money".

They do kind of suck.

They can only be placed in certain towns. It takes awhile to build up the prosperity of that town. They get erased if you go to war with a faction that the workshops are in, severely limiting where you can place them. To top it all off, one tournament or crafted two handed weapon brings in more income.

The economy is broken in the game and Tale Worlds doesn't care about fixing it.

I regard workshops simply as tiny +income on the long run, preferable in your own kingdom.
Their income is almost irrelevant compared to battle income.

[Snowieken]

Originally posted by Damedius:

Originally posted by Snowieken:

3. Many people claim workshops suck because they do the math wrong. "I invested 25k in that and it only gives 300 back, so it's a waste of money".

They do kind of suck.

They can only be placed in certain towns. It takes awhile to build up the prosperity of that town. They get erased if you go to war with a faction that the workshops are in, severely limiting where you can place them. To top it all off, one tournament or crafted two handed weapon brings in more income.

The economy is broken in the game and Tale Worlds doesn't care about fixing it.

While they will never be your big money maker, they suck less than you think. Just need to take a couple of measures.

1) Only invest in workshops in the highest prosperity towns in your faction, and preferably not border towns who change ownership every now and then.

2) Invest in workshops with an abundance of input goods. That sounds logical. But the main problem is that these towns usually have an abundance of output goods as well. So make that output good scarcer by buying it out (and selling it back where you can get more money for it, since it was cheap to buy anyway, earning you trade points too) and if you can afford more workshops, make sure the neighbouring towns don't have the same workshop. If they do, those are your next target to buy and then change the production type to something else, as much as possible. Also, dump input goods into the town as much as possible, making it cheaper to buy.

Again, they will never be your biggest money maker, but if you spend some time building them up, they are a pretty good investment. In my current playthrough my workshops give me 2.5k in total, which doesn't sound like much, but they support half of my army expenses so are well worth the initial total investment of 120k (which I get back by fighting one or two enemy lords). No one will ever convince me they suck.

Again, active income (loot, prisoners, smithing, ...) makes you wealthy. Passive income helps you maintain that wealth.

[Clovis Sangrail]

Originally posted by Lord Savage:

Realy how do you earn money when you dont want to "cheating" with smithing?

So smithing is 'cheating' but exploiting over-powered battle loot is legitimate?

[kristianjakob]

Originally posted by Clovis Sangrail:

Originally posted by Lord Savage:

Realy how do you earn money when you dont want to "cheating" with smithing?

So smithing is 'cheating' but exploiting over-powered battle loot is legitimate?

Yes, battle loot is just playing the game. Smithing is... I dont know.. playing some weird other game..?

[Clovis Sangrail]

Originally posted by kristianjakob:

Originally posted by Clovis Sangrail:

So smithing is 'cheating' but exploiting over-powered battle loot is legitimate?

Yes, battle loot is just playing the game. Smithing is... I dont know.. playing some weird other game..?

Typical battle fanboi reaction.

If battle loot is playing the game, then smithing is playing the game, too.

Is running caravans 'playing the game'?

Is collecting taxes 'playing the game'?

Is buying workshops 'playing the game'?

Where do you draw the line?

If anything, smithing is less OP than exploiting battle loot.

[Lord Savage]

Originally posted by Clovis Sangrail:

Originally posted by kristianjakob:

Yes, battle loot is just playing the game. Smithing is... I dont know.. playing some weird other game..?

Typical battle fanboi reaction.

If battle loot is playing the game, then smithing is playing the game, too.

Is running caravans 'playing the game'?

Is collecting taxes 'playing the game'?

Is buying workshops 'playing the game'?

Where do you draw the line?

If anything, smithing is less OP than exploiting battle loot.

Smithing is kind of cheat because at late game you can buy 300 pugio smelt them and craft weapons for more than 30k. You can make 400k or more per day.
In time of war also in time of peace.
If you run in troble with gold just craft some weapons and in one day you are richest lord in calradia.
In my situation i must use smithing. I hate it but its easyest way.
I want more money from fiefs and market...
But get smithing at lvl 300 need some time investment (craft stamina system) so money are lets say deserved.

[kristianjakob]

Originally posted by Clovis Sangrail:

Originally posted by kristianjakob:

Yes, battle loot is just playing the game. Smithing is... I dont know.. playing some weird other game..?

Typical battle fanboi reaction.

If battle loot is playing the game, then smithing is playing the game, too.

Is running caravans 'playing the game'?

Is collecting taxes 'playing the game'?

Is buying workshops 'playing the game'?

Where do you draw the line?

If anything, smithing is less OP than exploiting battle loot.

Smithing is playing a weird(tedious) minigame within the game.

Caravans and workshops are roleplaying! (no problem there)

Collecting taxes, I mean there should be some form of purpose to owning fiefs other than just as a storage for troops.

I doubt smithing is really OP myself. It is fairly difficult to see how you can really expoit it for anything meaningful. To buy clans that holds castles perhaps??

[khitamazza]

Well how do you call smithy is "cheating" if you set difficulty to very easy ofc definitely cheat. If you use realistic and harder combat difficulty, thats not cheating. Especially when you just start a kingdom

PS : hey nerf the price for crafted weapon

[Fryskar]

Originally posted by khitamazza:

Well how do you call smithy is "cheating" if you set difficulty to very easy ofc definitely cheat. If you use realistic and harder combat difficulty, thats not cheating. Especially when you just start a kingdom

PS : hey nerf the price for crafted weapon

Necroing to complain about complainers?
let the dead stay dead.

[Mr. No]

About investing 25 k in workshop which gives back "only 300 gold" per day.. Do the math, how long it takes for it to return your money :P

[Ruffio]

Originally posted by Mr. No:

About investing 25 k in workshop which gives back "only 300 gold" per day.. Do the math, how long it takes for it to return your money :P

One ingame year + a couple days.. So if you got 4 such workshops, that is 100k+ profit yearly ingame after the first year just passive income.