Aren't axes kinda weak right now?

[DontOpenDeadInside]

We used to be able to have axes that cleave trough multiple enemies but it would be stopped if even one of the enemies blocked the attack. We were used to have axes which could be one handed and two handed at the same time just like swords can. There's a very strong trait in two handed section that only applies to two handed swords while there's no choice to pick anything else: you can block projectiles with your 2h sword. In smithing swords have a lot more different pieces to choose from. The axes are generally shorter than swords.
The one thing axes have is extra damage to shields. That's it. Why would you pick an axe over a sword? Why would you want axe troops instead of sword troops? Breaking a shield doesn't prevent the enemy from blocking, just can't block all the attacks at the same time and can't block projectiles.
Axes used to be a great option but now, not so much.

[Rhapsody]

I don't remember ever having axe that was both one and two handed, the two handed versions should still be capable of cleaving, at least if the axe blade is proper kind, like executioner axe, and if you can do enough damage with it to cut through multiple targets.

One handed axes tend to have better handling characteristics and speed but shorter reach. They are useful in tight shield wall vs. shield wall situations like sieges. Some troops like Aserai infantry have considerably weaker shields in comparison to their other equipment, so they are especially vulnerable to something like Sturgian axemen.

Anyway, the choice of weapon is just one aspect of a soldier. Most factions only have one top tier infantry choice. So I don't see any sort of issue here.

[Zalzany]

Originally posted by Sheepify:

Originally posted by DeadlyGreed:

Why would you pick an axe over a sword?

Because it still is possible to hit multiple targets at once, whether it's you using it, or your troops.

The latter might be far less efficient with it, since they are not purposefully utilizing that ability, but from a player's perspective it's the best all-around weapon you can use.

Especially if you craft something like this (and that's not even it's most optimal form, just the stuff I did unlock with the horrible parts RNG):
https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=2492088526

Uh from most players perspectives its not really. A bastard sword to me is over all better. This is only good in select situations wich makes not ALL AROUND better. for instance too close you hiting them with the handle, and that is halbred you showing not an axe Like damn thing needs a pointy bit and to be a polearm weapon lol.

My go to fave was always morning stars to be honest both blunt and peicing damage, so anti armor weapon as long as you were strong enough to equip it you could skimp on your melee skills and focus more on tactical ones. Like I normally forcus more on leadership, and social skills over melee so I get a nice morning start style wepaon with a little reach and blunt and peice damge and never put it down lol. But most my companions end up with 1/2 h swords that are more verstile in combat their shield breaks its a 2 hander now.

[Julius]

Axes break through shields faster than swords, no?

[DontOpenDeadInside]

Originally posted by Rhapsody:

I don't remember ever having axe that was both one and two handed, the two handed versions should still be capable of cleaving, at least if the axe blade is proper kind, like executioner axe, and if you can do enough damage with it to cut through multiple targets.

There were multiple axes that could be wielded one and two handed, in the exact way you can do with the swords. In crafting menu you needed to craft a 2h axe, 1h axe base couldn't be wielded with two hands. I don't know where I got the idea that axes doesn't cleave anymore, I had this memory of reading it from patch notes. Or was it not all 2h axes cleave anymore?

Also would be cool if cleaver type 2h swords could cleave.

[DontOpenDeadInside]

Originally posted by Julius:

Axes break through shields faster than swords, no?

in my post I state "The one thing axes have is extra damage to shields" for this reason, but that ability is not so strong when you compare to what a sword can do. It can be longer, it can be 1h and 2h with the same weapon, it can block projectiles, it doesn't have the wood part so it deals good damage if the blade part hits and so on.

[Rhapsody]

Bastard swords (both one handed and two handed) are pretty good too, I enjoy the flexibility, but on the open field I prefer two-handed axe for the cleaving ability and higher damage.

I think the only real loser is the two handed sword. They might beat big axes in a duel situation but that sort of thing almost never happens in the game, especially in scenarios which would be truly meaningful.

Originally posted by DeadlyGreed:

Originally posted by Julius:

Axes break through shields faster than swords, no?

in my post I state "The one thing axes have is extra damage to shields" for this reason, but that ability is not so strong when you compare to what a sword can do. It can be longer, it can be 1h and 2h with the same weapon, it can block projectiles, it doesn't have the wood part so it deals good damage if the blade part hits and so on.

Yeah that feature is mostly put to use by troops, not the player. But it's just one characteristic.

[DontOpenDeadInside]

Originally posted by Sheepify:

Originally posted by DeadlyGreed:

Why would you pick an axe over a sword?

Because it still is possible to hit multiple targets at once, whether it's you using it, or your troops.

The latter might be far less efficient with it, since they are not purposefully utilizing that ability, but from a player's perspective it's the best all-around weapon you can use.

Especially if you craft something like this (and that's not even it's most optimal form, just the stuff I did unlock with the horrible parts RNG):
https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=2492088526

What are the rules of weapon being able to cleave multiple enemies? Does it need to be T3+ or t4+? Does it need to be a large axe blade? Is there a symbol for it?

[Julius]

Originally posted by Sheepify:

Originally posted by Zalzany:

Uh from most players perspectives its not really.

It's literally superior, even based on pure mechanics involved.

Originally posted by Zalzany:

A bastard sword to me is over all better.

Lower overall damage and inability to hit multiple targets at once is better?

Originally posted by Zalzany:

This is only good in select situations wich makes not ALL AROUND better. for instance too close you hiting them with the handle

1. Footwork is bestwork.
2. Learn to lead strikes into targets to avoid glances (aka lolspinning).

Originally posted by Zalzany:

and that is halbred you showing not an axe Like damn thing needs a pointy bit and to be a polearm weapon lol.

JFC, seriously?

It's an axe. With an axe head, and a long handle. Just a bit longer than I used in my teen years when cutting actual firewood (yes, I'm that old, thanks). Don't use terms you did not bother to even check on, it triggers me hard.

"Halberd," my axe.

Originally posted by Julius:

Axes break through shields faster than swords, no?

Yeah, but if you're chopping shields in the first place, you aren't fighting well.

Hit over- or under the shield, or feint them into an opening.

Chopping shields? It's not always that you have a chance at killing someone before the shield breaks, this is especially true in multiplayer where people are much better at blocking than AI.

[Grizzly]

if you know how to use a weapon you wont hit an enemy with the handle of an axe.

the axe destorys shields way faster and the multi hit is super strong, swords are from balance perspective seen faster, having said that axes are still super fast and therefore usually always better. i only take swords out of fun but yeah they are def weaker then axes, no matter if 2 handed or nah.

[Onimaho]

Originally posted by DeadlyGreed:

We used to be able to have axes that cleave trough multiple enemies but it would be stopped if even one of the enemies blocked the attack. We were used to have axes which could be one handed and two handed at the same time just like swords can. There's a very strong trait in two handed section that only applies to two handed swords while there's no choice to pick anything else: you can block projectiles with your 2h sword. In smithing swords have a lot more different pieces to choose from. The axes are generally shorter than swords.
The one thing axes have is extra damage to shields. That's it. Why would you pick an axe over a sword? Why would you want axe troops instead of sword troops? Breaking a shield doesn't prevent the enemy from blocking, just can't block all the attacks at the same time and can't block projectiles.
Axes used to be a great option but now, not so much.

Uh no that was warband.

Breaking shields feels kinda irrelevant, I agree, because it takes to long to do it. In warband it was 2-3 hits against anything but a huscarl and they'd break. Bannerlord its more like 5-10 hits, which at the point you probably killed them by hitting in-between their blocks.

Now where the 2h axe actually shines is the cut through multiple targets. It doesn't mean much early game because you are slow, but mid to late game you turn unto a lawnmower.

Skipping ahead to a more important topic...crafted 1h axes. They are garbage. Please buff 1h axe damage or nerf crafted 1h sword damage (so it is always less than the axe of same tier). It is a tragedy that the best crafted 1h axe is always slower, shorter, significantly less damage, and has the same shield breaker as the best crafted 1h sword.

[flyingscot1066]

In vanilla, axes, especially 2-handed axes, are profoundly superior to all other melee weapons in terms of sheer killing power.
You can craft an axe which has 1-hand and 2-hand capabilities.
2-hand axes and 2-hand maces can both cleave, but the axes do it better.
Same with shield wrecking. With a great axe and the right perks, shields go poof in 1-2 swings.
Super long handled axes are great until you CAN'T use footwork. Hard to lolspin on a ladder or in the press on top of a wall. 1-hand axe or mace is just right for those scenarios.

[DontOpenDeadInside]

Originally posted by flyingscot1066:

You can craft an axe which has 1-hand and 2-hand capabilities

None of my handles have both tags. I tried all kinds of combos but didn't find any with both of them. Can you take a picture of you choosing the crafting parts and the weapon having the ability to be 1h/2h at the same time?

[flyingscot1066]

Originally posted by DeadlyGreed:

Originally posted by flyingscot1066:

You can craft an axe which has 1-hand and 2-hand capabilities

None of my handles have both tags. I tried all kinds of combos but didn't find any with both of them. Can you take a picture of you choosing the crafting parts and the weapon having the ability to be 1h/2h at the same time?

Apparently it has been changed since I did it last. Used to be one handle/blade combination that had both tags but it's not there anymore. Was too slow as a 1-hander anyway, and didn't hit hard enough as a 2-hander.

[Ragnaman]

"cleave trough multiple enemies"

wasnt this a mod ? Or they finally implemented something similar into vanilla ?

[DontOpenDeadInside]

Originally posted by Ragnaman:

"cleave trough multiple enemies"

wasnt this a mod ? Or they finally implemented something similar into vanilla ?

It was since start on 2h axes, the mods applied the vanilla thing to other weapons.