Ai "Strategy" Wasting Time?

[Borcen Elfgutter]

In virtually every battle I get into, regardless of the odds, the enemy army finds a hill and runs straight to it. Once on the hill, the AI seems to move their army like ants that never stop just swirling around the hilltop so that my archers are totally pointless.

I guess I understand this on defense, but when the AI attacks me in the overland map then it needs to attack me in the battle map. It's a very anti-player tactic that just wastes the time of the human player. Seems like a perfect example of why as silly as it was sometimes, the Total War games had capture points to just prevent pointless turtling wasting time.

[SinisterSlay]

Just break their shield wall then.

Super easy, order your horse archers to skirmish, they will circle and get free shots.
Line your calvary and infantry up.

Order your calvary to charge first, they will smash into the wall, breaking it, order your infantry to charge through the new opening and slaughter them for sitting around.

[Zalzany]

Translation "I got the perfect killing feild set up and enemy is going "Uh not that stupid..." and I go come on Wait no come from this direction don't get smart!" Like they sorted this out in last one every one would just OP defense metas pick a steep hill and just afk while every one got slaughtered. People why the AI has to adapt, but they don't have the best AI programing team, so they end up not working that well. So now you got attack or adapt.

I mean in real life if it was a player they wouldn't charging right into a trap, they would split up and flank AI just circles for liek a couple minutes before commiting and you guys lose your minds. Me I am going "yawn more raiders sucide charging my army I chased them down and they charge me becuase they got no leader in suicide charge." Then I fight a lord and go "hey annoying but this guy isn't just blindly charging me its like they have a leader in this fight or something." You see it and go "why lord no run into wall of spears and xbow fire? WTF if I want this to be fast I got go on offensive!"

[Zalzany]

Originally posted by SinisterSlay:

Just break their shield wall then.

Super easy, order your horse archers to skirmish, they will circle and get free shots.
Line your calvary and infantry up.

Order your calvary to charge first, they will smash into the wall, breaking it, order your infantry to charge through the new opening and slaughter them for sitting around.

This requires him to not turtle waiting for them to charge like raiders. Issue isn't the Ai is moving its the AI isn't suicide charging into their well set up trap..

[TrueWarlord真の武]

No, you guys don't get OP main point. He is pointing out that if the enemy AI is CHASING HIM on the freaking map, it does not make sense that as soon as the BATTLE start the AI just TURTLE and do nothing, so the DEFENDER is forced to attack because there is no other way to leave the battle map.

Jeez guys stop defending the game so hard, wtf....

[Kott Vakkenhoff]

Originally posted by TrueWarlord真の武:

No, you guys don't get OP main point. He is pointing out that if the enemy AI is CHASING HIM on the freaking map, it does not make sense that as soon as the BATTLE start the AI just TURTLE and do nothing, so the DEFENDER is forced to attack because there is no other way to leave the battle map.

Jeez guys stop defending the game so hard, wtf....

Yep, sometimes people don't read entire posts before responding. A problem as old as the internet.

[Borcen Elfgutter]

Two issues:
(1) When the AI attacks me on the map, they need to attack me in the battle. Right now they just run to a hill and sit there and wait for me to come to them. If I am attacking them, I have no problem at all with them setting up on a defensible position.
(2) While the enemy waits on this hill, they are writhing around like ants that just had their mound kicked. It's just a chaotic mess of guys that looks ridiculous. There are no lines or formations.

[Kott Vakkenhoff]

Originally posted by Borcen Elfgutter:

Two issues:
(1) When the AI attacks me on the map, they need to attack me in the battle. Right now they just run to a hill and sit there and wait for me to come to them. If I am attacking them, I have no problem at all with them setting up on a defensible position.
(2) While the enemy waits on this hill, they are writhing around like ants that just had their mound kicked. It's just a chaotic mess of guys that looks ridiculous. There are no lines or formations.

Totally agree on the first thing. I haven't experienced that second thing. Are you running any mods?

[SinisterSlay]

I actually haven't had the first happen. Usually they run away on the map same as they run away in the battle.

[Thorgen]

Depends on what my army is made of on what I will do.
I will usually go in in this scenario and pick them off personally while my army waits. If you kill enough it will push them to charge.
If that doesn't happen I will order my missile cavalry to follow me, and ride around the back of their formation always moving.
While doing this I will have ordered my melee cavalry to move up closer. At the right moment I will order my melee cavalry to charge while the missiles are riding behind them.
While you are picking solo their cavalry will usually chase you providing you with a great chance to remove them from the game. Just make sure you don't get 1 shot piked by certain mobs. This generally goes well, because their cavalry are pretty far out on the flanks.
So your pick order would be like cavalry first with melee then bow pick their archers as their infantry will likely block most hits with shields. When you get used to the bow though you can hit them in the head above shields pretty easily.

During this you could also have your infantry in shield wall formation with the archers behind them, and if you order them to advance an equal amount of times then they won't break up.
After your melee cavalry hits you can order your horse archers to charge, which will make them run around, and keep the enemy army from holding a solid formation.

If the battle is large "several hundred" you will have to regroup, or you will be too scattered, and will lose many more men than you have to.

[blc]

Agree. I don't like the transition between the world map and the battlefield. Two different games, sure lately with the map terrain it became a bit more immersive. But why the hell are we standing on opposite sides when I join a fight as a third party? The battle should already be ongoing. And as OP pointed out, being chased by an army and when the battle start they run away and camp on a hill and wait for me to go attack them...

[wf1675]

Originally posted by Borcen Elfgutter:

In virtually every battle I get into, regardless of the odds, the enemy army finds a hill and runs straight to it. Once on the hill, the AI seems to move their army like ants that never stop just swirling around the hilltop so that my archers are totally pointless.

I guess I understand this on defense, but when the AI attacks me in the overland map then it needs to attack me in the battle map. It's a very anti-player tactic that just wastes the time of the human player. Seems like a perfect example of why as silly as it was sometimes, the Total War games had capture points to just prevent pointless turtling wasting time.

there's a mod that allows you to toggle game speed so you can still have tactical combat if yout getting impatient

[wf1675]

Originally posted by TrueWarlord真の武:

No, you guys don't get OP main point. He is pointing out that if the enemy AI is CHASING HIM on the freaking map, it does not make sense that as soon as the BATTLE start the AI just TURTLE and do nothing, so the DEFENDER is forced to attack because there is no other way to leave the battle map.

Jeez guys stop defending the game so hard, wtf....

well just cause the opponent has the advantage doesent mean they wouldn't be cautious

[Tiniturtle]

my shield wall with fian behind at their front
my khan guard go brawler melee kill their cavalry then go to their back
they can camp all they want becos fian and khan guard keep raining arrow from both side
in the end of all battle i dont event lose a single man lol
and bot alway take defensive spot if they r at defender of the battle
and they alway come for u if they r atker of the battle

[TardWrangler]

Originally posted by wf1675:

Originally posted by TrueWarlord真の武:

No, you guys don't get OP main point. He is pointing out that if the enemy AI is CHASING HIM on the freaking map, it does not make sense that as soon as the BATTLE start the AI just TURTLE and do nothing, so the DEFENDER is forced to attack because there is no other way to leave the battle map.

Jeez guys stop defending the game so hard, wtf....

well just cause the opponent has the advantage doesent mean they wouldn't be cautious

If my opponent has a big advantage and proceeds to run away uphill, my ass would be running if I wasnt locked in a map forced to fight them

[wf1675]

Originally posted by Borcen Elfgutter:

In virtually every battle I get into, regardless of the odds, the enemy army finds a hill and runs straight to it. Once on the hill, the AI seems to move their army like ants that never stop just swirling around the hilltop so that my archers are totally pointless.

I guess I understand this on defense, but when the AI attacks me in the overland map then it needs to attack me in the battle map. It's a very anti-player tactic that just wastes the time of the human player. Seems like a perfect example of why as silly as it was sometimes, the Total War games had capture points to just prevent pointless turtling wasting time.

https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=2875385597 here