Cavalry still can't hit anything

[Zorelnam]

tested it out myself in campaign and custom battle, this was not fixed

[Onimaho]

Working as intended, cav cant hit anything and neither can the anti-cav spears.

Balanced.

[Grizzly]

Originally posted by Onimaho:

Working as intended, cav cant hit anything and neither can the anti-cav spears.

Balanced.

the anti cav at least the ones i use hit them at like every second charge. the cav hits them like every 6. charge... id say cav sucks more then they do

[ShepherdOfCats]

It seems a *little* better in tournaments if you watch the AI fight.

Horse-versus-horse, they used to just hug each other while doing 1 damage with polearms because they are fighting too close. At least now they get a few more solid hits in. Horse-versus-infantry is still kinda meh.

Or maybe I was just witnessing random luck.

It's like the AI can't make up its mind which side of the horse it wants to stab from, so it shifts back and forth from one side to the other repeatedly until it's already rode past the target.

[Very serious person]

https://steamcommunity.com/profiles/76561198215195889/home/

I beat 94 tier 3 imperial infantry troops with 60 valandian Knights which are also tier 3. I'd say the update worked to some degree. It wasn't entirely the AI's thing because I had to finesse some stuff. For starters, I matched the widh of my cavalry to that of their infantry. As soon as they reached the infantry could see several lines of green text on the corner though once they had charged I had to manually select the place from which I wanted them to charge from. If you leave them on charge they'll cycle charge on their own as well, but I think the distance at which the AI chooses to turn back for another charge doesn't let them build up enough speed.

I tested also against Sturgians, Sarranids and Valandian infantry troops in the same ratios. I only lost to the Sturgians provided I followed the steps I mentioned before. Not doing so resulted in me losing all the time even against Valandians and Sarranids.

Edit: Never mind what I wrote here. It only seems to work in small numbers. Once you started with battles of 150+ you won't be able to slam your cavalry into infantry formation without losing. I think anyways cavalry was not meant for that anyways.

[fastforward]

alot of the damage from cavalry comes from speed, if you simply send em in with a charge, the initial hits will do damage, but if the enemy formation holds, the cavalry get slowed, blocks each other and is now facing soldiers in a way, where the enemy soldiers outnumber yours, because the horse takes up more space, than the enemy soldiers so they can swarm the knight. best way to use cavalry is to send em trough the enemy formation, sweeping over them from left to right and then back again while enemy formation is already engaged by your own archers/infantry. this has been the superior tactic in warband as well.
and no. AI is not supposed to be supersmart else commanding troops wont be necessary at all and game will devolve to starting battle, pressing f1 f3, or f6 and then holding W while left clicking.
i seen alot of videos on the issue and i dont see an issue, a player can dodge a single knight why shouldnt AI infantry not be able to dodge a single knight.
cavalry still works very well versus enemy archers, and when commanded properly is strong versus other targets. horse archers are amazing, skirmishing with a big amount of cavalry troops that have throwing weapons and then retreating without losses and destroying whole armies that way still works.
cavalry works.

[Very serious person]

Originally posted by fastforward:

alot of the damage from cavalry comes from speed, if you simply send em in with a charge, the initial hits will do damage, but if the enemy formation holds, the cavalry get slowed, blocks each other and is now facing soldiers in a way, where the enemy soldiers outnumber yours, because the horse takes up more space, than the enemy soldiers so they can swarm the knight. best way to use cavalry is to send em trough the enemy formation, sweeping over them from left to right and then back again while enemy formation is already engaged by your own archers/infantry. this has been the superior tactic in warband as well.
and no. AI is not supposed to be supersmart else commanding troops wont be necessary at all and game will devolve to starting battle, pressing f1 f3, or f6 and then holding W while left clicking.
i seen alot of videos on the issue and i dont see an issue, a player can dodge a single knight why shouldnt AI infantry not be able to dodge a single knight.
cavalry still works very well versus enemy archers, and when commanded properly is strong versus other targets. horse archers are amazing, skirmishing with a big amount of cavalry troops that have throwing weapons and then retreating without losses and destroying whole armies that way still works.
cavalry works.

I disagree that they are good at dealing with archers. Sometimes I have cav follow me whilst I'm running sideways through a line of archers and I'm the only one doing the killing. I do agree that as a player enemy cavalry is quite easily avoided, but that is not something that I like. I remember playing Floris for Warband and getting couch lanced by other horsemen or chased by them. Here every single rider, friend or foe, is slower than the player and very rarely I see them couch their lances, so it will take 50 of them to kill the player.


I don't know what TW intended the meta of this game to be, but I would like heavy cav to be OP and somewhat scarce for the OPness to be balanced out. That's a matter of taste though.



Edit: Made simililar tests in Custom Battle and won against Battanian Heroes with Valandian Knights, but 200 v 200. 100 v 200 resulted on a win for the archers. Why should you need the same amount of mounted troops to deal with the archers. A battanian uprade will cost you just the upgrade, but a Knight will cost you the upgrade plus the horse.

[Laef]

Bow and Infantry: Bannerlord.

[Zorelnam]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1Uu1vVZquLw

[Zorelnam]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NK-Iu65HKE0

[Grizzly]

archers are usually my anti cav they go out with way more kills then losses. even tho it should be upside down lmao

[fastforward]

Originally posted by Very serious person:

Originally posted by fastforward:

alot of the damage from cavalry comes from speed, if you simply send em in with a charge, the initial hits will do damage, but if the enemy formation holds, the cavalry get slowed, blocks each other and is now facing soldiers in a way, where the enemy soldiers outnumber yours, because the horse takes up more space, than the enemy soldiers so they can swarm the knight. best way to use cavalry is to send em trough the enemy formation, sweeping over them from left to right and then back again while enemy formation is already engaged by your own archers/infantry. this has been the superior tactic in warband as well.
and no. AI is not supposed to be supersmart else commanding troops wont be necessary at all and game will devolve to starting battle, pressing f1 f3, or f6 and then holding W while left clicking.
i seen alot of videos on the issue and i dont see an issue, a player can dodge a single knight why shouldnt AI infantry not be able to dodge a single knight.
cavalry still works very well versus enemy archers, and when commanded properly is strong versus other targets. horse archers are amazing, skirmishing with a big amount of cavalry troops that have throwing weapons and then retreating without losses and destroying whole armies that way still works.
cavalry works.

I disagree that they are good at dealing with archers. Sometimes I have cav follow me whilst I'm running sideways through a line of archers and I'm the only one doing the killing. I do agree that as a player enemy cavalry is quite easily avoided, but that is not something that I like. I remember playing Floris for Warband and getting couch lanced by other horsemen or chased by them. Here every single rider, friend or foe, is slower than the player and very rarely I see them couch their lances, so it will take 50 of them to kill the player.


I don't know what TW intended the meta of this game to be, but I would like heavy cav to be OP and somewhat scarce for the OPness to be balanced out. That's a matter of taste though.



Edit: Made simililar tests in Custom Battle and won against Battanian Heroes with Valandian Knights, but 200 v 200. 100 v 200 resulted on a win for the archers. Why should you need the same amount of mounted troops to deal with the archers. A battanian uprade will cost you just the upgrade, but a Knight will cost you the upgrade plus the horse.

the issue with the test you made is that battanian archers are arguably the strongest unit in the game with almost no maintenance with a bazillion of ammo and a twohanded sword + jedilike skills, that can shoot a fly on the moon in the eye. khuzait darkhans were stronger a while ago but requred micromanaging, now they were nerfed and i havent tested em any more. and you want to buff cavalry because of that one particular troop being too strong. also the battanian fians are superstrong vs ai because the AI does not use tactics, if one would use proper tactics one can engage the fians without charging into them trough a hail of arrows which is obviously not the best tactic.
also that is not a real combat situation, when will the battle in your singleplayer campaign look like 200 knights vs 200 battanian fian champions? its more like 2 armies with 700-1000 troops vs 900-1500 troops and most of em are infantry. half of em are recruits.
i had one playtrough where i played a vlandian guy, wanted to make pure knight army and after getting about 200 knights i realized that having only knights is not the most efficient tactic to make the most use of knights, so i added sharpshooters that would draw the attention of the enemy before i ride in with my cavalry. and then when my party got really big i realized that while having only sharpshooters and knights is quite efficient i am sometimes missing a few infantrymen in the front that would draw fire from advancing horse archers so i added a few infantrymen.
with this army composition i was beating AI opponents with twice the unit amounts, against certain factions i had to use cheese tactics with retreating and stuff like that, but it worked and that's what counts.

[Ruffio]

Issue charge command to cav right away at start of a fight seems... like a good way to get them killed.

You will have a much better result with cav if you use them to attack the flanks and from behind. Leading your cav towards the rear of a enemy line then issue charge when you are getting close, got a much more devestating result. Once you break through, you tell them to follow and you lead them around for another charge.