Charging horses

[Drakken]

One thing is bothering me in M&BW.

This is when your charging horse is stopped when your horse hit another horse, same for friendly troopers btw.
A charging horses, should knock down and damage friendly soldiers and even horses hit on the flank and horsemen could have a chance to be unhorsed by an impact.
Actualy even weapons damages.
The impact damages should be based on their weight, small, medium, heavy.
The fall damages on their speed.

If for what ever reason you fall from your horse when you are in the front rank, not only you will be damaged by the fall but you will be hits by all the horses behind you.

[Mikey]

This is one of those "realism vs good gameplay" questions, isn't it? Same with "friendly fire" melee damage, and a lot of other things.

Btw... Drakken is (also) the name of a Knight of the White Wolf (elite cavalry unit in the Warhammer world), he should know all about horse charges!

[Flippy]

On youtube polo matches have the same thing happen. They run into each other but dont fall.

4 legged horses dont just fall down. It takes alot for fit horses to go down. Famously they dont go down except under extreme circumstances. Also famously a horse will burst its own heart trying to carry its long time owner in extreme circumstances, or bring them water if they have fallen and to injured to move.

Horses are mans best friend and have been bread for thousands of years to carry men and not fail.

[Drakken]

Polo?
Try Buzkashi !
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lpKQEVdcI0g

Like 2.40 & 4.50


A very appropriate sport for a Turkish game btw. ;)

[captain-atom]

I dont think you ride you horse in polo like you do at war, in polo they don't want to kill other players by charging them.

Just a thought

[Flippy]

Originally posted by Drakken:

Polo?
Try Buzkashi !
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lpKQEVdcI0g

Like 2.40 & 4.50

Amazing video. Rough sport. :) The guy being dragged along the ground by the stirrup after the middle was rather epic.

[Drakken]

And this is most certainly still very far from what you live during a battle.
Once again i rided horses for years and i really know how powerfull an horse can be.
And how hard the ground is when you fall from one.
How painfull it is when an horse simply bite you, or step on your feet...
So a battle, no thanks!! ^^

[Flippy]

Originally posted by Drakken:

And this is most certainly still very far from what you live during a battle.
Once again i rided horses for years and i really know how powerfull an horse can be.
And how hard the ground is when you fall from one.
How painfull it is when an horse simply bite you, or step on your feet...
So a battle, no thanks!! ^^

First thing i thought when watching the video is those guys are all built for riding, not to large or heavy and the reason why they can survive the falls and not be hurt and everything.

Horses are large animals and scary to anyone not used to being around them.

[Drakken]

Yeah they are still the best horse riders in the world no wonder why they have been so effective against so many groups for so long. from the Hsiung Nu to Huns, to Seljdjuks and the like.

[Callum]

Originally posted by Drakken:

One thing is bothering me in M&BW.

This is when your charging horse is stopped when your horse hit another horse, same for friendly troopers btw.
A charging horses, should knock down and damage friendly soldiers and even horses hit on the flank and horsemen could have a chance to be unhorsed by an impact.
Actualy even weapons damages.
The impact damages should be based on their weight, small, medium, heavy.
The fall damages on their speed.

If for what ever reason you fall from your horse when you are in the front rank, not only you will be damaged by the fall but you will be hits by all the horses behind you.

The problem really comes down to a gameplay vs realism issue in my mind. It would be extremely frustrating to be dismounted repeatedly when the focus of the game is on the combat. Also, any infantry with some awareness and a spear can easily deal with cavalry and they are more exposed to ranged attacks due to being a much larger target.

Anyway, that is just my personal opinion and I will certainly pass your feedback on to the rest of the team! :)

Originally posted by Drakken:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lpKQEVdcI0g

Wow, that looks awesome!

You should check out another horseback sport called "Cirit". It is like dodgeball on horseback but with javelins.

[Drakken]

Originally posted by Callum:

Originally posted by Drakken:

One thing is bothering me in M&BW.

This is when your charging horse is stopped when your horse hit another horse, same for friendly troopers btw.
A charging horses, should knock down and damage friendly soldiers and even horses hit on the flank and horsemen could have a chance to be unhorsed by an impact.
Actualy even weapons damages.
The impact damages should be based on their weight, small, medium, heavy.
The fall damages on their speed.

If for what ever reason you fall from your horse when you are in the front rank, not only you will be damaged by the fall but you will be hits by all the horses behind you.

The problem really comes down to a gameplay vs realism issue in my mind. It would be extremely frustrating to be dismounted repeatedly when the focus of the game is on the combat. Also, any infantry with some awareness and a spear can easily deal with cavalry and they are more exposed to ranged attacks due to being a much larger target.

Anyway, that is just my personal opinion and I will certainly pass your feedback on to the rest of the team! :)

Originally posted by Drakken:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lpKQEVdcI0g

Wow, that looks awesome!

You should check out another horseback sport called "Cirit". It is like dodgeball on horseback but with javelins.

Thanks Callum !
Now about spears and horses here to this is unbelievable but this is more in mods and maybe not in the core game, when spearmen stop your charging horse on the spot.

This is still 500 to 1000 KG of soon to be dead meat with an inertie of 30 to 50 Kmh
I don't want to be in the first 5 ranks of spearmen. ^^


But yes i 100% agree gameplay over realism, now a litle realism is nice too.... ;)

[Aeyris Skye]

if horses collide head on or into each other I dont think itd be that bad, would have to restrict it to head to head collision and T bone collisions I think itd work, would make for more immersive gameplay (so itd ignore if two sides of horses collided that wouldnt cause a crash) and the horses would either die or collapse maybe? I dunno just a thought. Interesting post tho, you dont see this in games much.

How about spear walls? Those in? So that a wall of spearman can hold out long pikes and when the horses crash into them get all stabbed up?

[Drakken]

Originally posted by Callum:

Wow, that looks awesome!

You should check out another horseback sport called "Cirit". It is like dodgeball on horseback but with javelins.

Lol i have missed that part, enough with the foolish Turkish sports, that will lead us to wrestling the Turkish way. ^^

But thanks for the link. ;)

[Drakken]

Originally posted by Aeyrius Skye:

How about spear walls? Those in? So that a wall of spearman can hold out long pikes and when the horses crash into them get all stabbed up?

The front horses will most certainly die, the horsemen too but your front rank of spearmen is still ramed by small cars moving at 40 to 50 kmh, you can hold spears as much as you llike you will still be runned over anyway,
The spearmen will win the day if they can hold their line, a line deep enough because the horses behind will collide with the front row of horses and the charge will be stopped.
Then the reach of the spear and the density + of the infantry in close formation will give a huge advantage to the spearmen.
If your infantry break before or during the impact they are doomed.
And this is happening to low quality infantry because noone want to be in the front ranks.

Now in battles nothing is always true, tacitus has wiped Sarmatians heavy cavalry on occasion.
Weather, Ground, tiredness etc.


Btw if they are spearmen they are using spears, not pikes. ;)