330 archery vs 330 athletics?

[Skyler712]

I want to create a khuzait horse archer min maxing 2h for the lvl 225 perk (glorious 25% AP) on mind with a smithed 2 hand falx (hehe, shieldbreaker here i go).
All my warrior-oriented builds were focused entirely on athletics and any combat oriented atribute as secondary (i.e 10 athletics, 7 vigor).
Now im curious if i REALLY need that max endurance on this archer build. Should i make 10 control/ 7 endurance or 7 control/ 10 endurance? Ty!

[Major0Noob]

axes can cut through multiple people and knda-hit blocking opponents

you don't really need AP for anything with pierce or blunt damage

[Skyler712]

Originally posted by Major0Noob:

axes can cut through multiple people and knda-hit blocking opponents

you don't really need AP for anything with pierce or blunt damage

well, the 25% ap from 2h was for my archery build, since that perk affects to EVERY attack you made. That means you can stack every ap with the 2h one and with the others. For example, archery has 10% ap from one perk, right? now with the 2h perk, thats 35% armor pen. thats really good.

[RJboxer]

1- Athletic builds are the best in my mind, because you get 200-300 hp. That's a big deal, as Even an earlier today post about "armor suxx" in bannerlord thread points out. Armor is ok, but not that great. Even tier 6. HP matters. So does damage reduction (reduced damage from ranged, Reduced damage from Cavalry Charge etc)

2- Not sure why you'd go 330 archery. I don't have game open currently. I do know I had 310 one time. and with a Noble long bow I'd hit armored foes (while I was siege defense) for 180-250 damage. That's FULLY armored foes. And I wasn't even pure archery build. I had 300 Throwing on that guy. and it was WAY better, (just way less ranged and ammo. but kill potential, and the ragdolling made it all worth it.. so funny watching a cataphract cartwheel and roll 40 yards when I hit him with a javelin).

3- So for me Any and all combat builds. Even PURE archer, Would probably want the extra health. I suppose if you somehow got enough points to ALSO take Medicine to 300ish. (Does that still give health too?) it might be ok to ignore 300+ athletics. I dunno.

Personally I will take 300 athletics (let alone 330) over 330 archery on ANY archery build.

[Skyler712]

Originally posted by RJboxer:

1- Athletic builds are the best in my mind, because you get 200-300 hp. That's a big deal, as Even an earlier today post about "armor suxx" in bannerlord thread points out. Armor is ok, but not that great. Even tier 6. HP matters. So does damage reduction (reduced damage from ranged, Reduced damage from Cavalry Charge etc)

2- Not sure why you'd go 330 archery. I don't have game open currently. I do know I had 310 one time. and with a Noble long bow I'd hit armored foes (while I was siege defense) for 180-250 damage. That's FULLY armored foes. And I wasn't even pure archery build. I had 300 Throwing on that guy. and it was WAY better, (just way less ranged and ammo. but kill potential, and the ragdolling made it all worth it.. so funny watching a cataphract cartwheel and roll 40 yards when I hit him with a javelin).

3- So for me Any and all combat builds. Even PURE archer, Would probably want the extra health. I suppose if you somehow got enough points to ALSO take Medicine to 300ish. (Does that still give health too?) it might be ok to ignore 300+ athletics. I dunno.

Personally I will take 300 athletics (let alone 330) over 330 archery on ANY archery build.

Yeah, kinda my thoughts too. Not only gives the hp from the latest perk, but speed too. Basically the difference between 7 and 10 endurance was 42 hp and almost 3% speed, compared to the difference between 7-10 archery, which was like 8% missile speed and 20% more dmg.
And yes, maxing around 225 in medicine is 15 more hp. And 5 hp from 2h.
Thx pal

[Ape-tier Buffoonery]

When I think minmaxing, I think starting a character with 2 Str/Vig. You'll get +1 to each, or +2 for one if you have at least 5 End and focus both Smithing and Athletics (can put focus in Mounted as well for Captain bonuses and exp, as it's easy to level mounted) Smithing and Athletics will also give +1 end each so you end up with 7 End to get capstone perks.
Then I'll pump Int to 7 for Steward and Medicine, and get to 8 Soc for the 300 Trade perk, leadership doesn't hurt either.

While being a super strong warrior that deals 200+ damage with bowshots or what have you is incredibly fun in it's own right. I find once I have 100+ soldiers I notice my individual contribution to battles begins to dwindle. Sure I get kills and what have you but never more than 10% of the total. Once I'm roaming with 300 soldiers or an army of companions and their troops I feel I'm more just commanding and less doing actual fighting. With a noble steppe bow you still kill most enemies in 1-2 hits, and with a janky smithed polearm (I like making weird ones with short handles. They swing quite fast and still do 140 damage) you still kill things in 1 hit anyways even with low combat ability. You can still focus on your method of battle (Archery and Polearms in my case) and still get the 225 perk with 3 attribute points and 5/5 focus anyways.

[Skyler712]

Originally posted by Ape-tier Buffoonery:

When I think minmaxing, I think starting a character with 2 Str/Vig. You'll get +1 to each, or +2 for one if you have at least 5 End and focus both Smithing and Athletics (can put focus in Mounted as well for Captain bonuses and exp, as it's easy to level mounted) Smithing and Athletics will also give +1 end each so you end up with 7 End to get capstone perks.
Then I'll pump Int to 7 for Steward and Medicine, and get to 8 Soc for the 300 Trade perk, leadership doesn't hurt either.

While being a super strong warrior that deals 200+ damage with bowshots or what have you is incredibly fun in it's own right. I find once I have 100+ soldiers I notice my individual contribution to battles begins to dwindle. Sure I get kills and what have you but never more than 10% of the total. Once I'm roaming with 300 soldiers or an army of companions and their troops I feel I'm more just commanding and less doing actual fighting. With a noble steppe bow you still kill most enemies in 1-2 hits, and with a janky smithed polearm (I like making weird ones with short handles. They swing quite fast and still do 140 damage) you still kill things in 1 hit anyways even with low combat ability. You can still focus on your method of battle (Archery and Polearms in my case) and still get the 225 perk with 3 attribute points and 5/5 focus anyways.

Oh, well i know what are you talking about, even i did a discussion about this before. This game is not exactly like skyrim, its literally a strategy game, the problem is the early, which is basically skyrim/kingdom come. But you know, i have saved tons of ideas for builds until the game is completed, meanwhile i was using this build to remove that urge i have to play bannerlord, you know.

[Cass]

I wouldn't go 10 deep in ANY tree... but all of the martials are definitely questionable. only a few capstones provide that extra special benefit that makes going 275-300 or 330 worth it.
leadership, steward, medicine and athletics.

the vast majority of weapon skills already provide enough damage with top tier weapons, especially crafted ones, to 1 shot just about everything by 275 skill.

Throwing is probably the only one... projectile speed. so, it does scale up past 275, 300+. it actually lets you throw further.
while javs 1 shot everything by 150skill... and impale is totally broken..
maybe the extra damage also makes throwing axes/daggers viable at 330. ha.

[Major0Noob]

going from 250 one handed to 330 feels great though, you can use whatever you want or use a optimum weapon and turn into a walking blender
330 two handed with axes is a blast, 330 polearm + 330 one handed feels like Achilles

[Skyler712]

Originally posted by Major0Noob:

going from 250 one handed to 330 feels great though, you can use whatever you want or use a optimum weapon and turn into a walking blender
330 two handed with axes is a blast, 330 polearm + 330 one handed feels like Achilles

Yeah, melee is awesome, but 330 archery feels like shooting anyones achiles heel :)

[Major0Noob]

if you use armour mods i'd go for the archery
if not, IMO combat skills are fairly pointless past 200

[RJboxer]

Originally posted by Skyler712:

Originally posted by Major0Noob:

going from 250 one handed to 330 feels great though, you can use whatever you want or use a optimum weapon and turn into a walking blender
330 two handed with axes is a blast, 330 polearm + 330 one handed feels like Achilles

Yeah, melee is awesome, but 330 archery feels like shooting anyones achiles heel :)

I'm not sure we all are saying same things in this thread. It seems like we are.

But one point I want to make (after re-reading my earlier post) is when I said I had archery 310 and was hitting armored fores for 250+ to me that is MORE than enough. In fact you can probably get those numbers at archery 275 or lower etc.

And this goes into my whole "combat' min/max thing. I don't feel anyone (which others seem to be saying as well) get's as much return for maxing a combat skill to 330 (or even 300) and the points needed to reach it... as they would by putting it into athletics, or trade, or charm (if u wanna run a kingdom, and get 30-70 inf per turn), or Steward (and have a 450 man party eating 3 food a day. etc). To me those things seem more important than Bow shotting an armored dude for 250 vs 160. He's dead either way.

and as to throwing, lol. that was just so funny. hitting guys for 600+ and them flying 40+ yards is just to "meme" to pass up.

but again, not super useful.

[Major0Noob]

for archery and throwing i agree, for melee the swing speed and other little combat things like awkward hits and axes hitting 2 guys maxing out is useful

focusing on combat also helps if you just execute a bunch of enemies instead of out managing them

[RJboxer]

Originally posted by Major0Noob:

for archery and throwing i agree, for melee the swing speed and other little combat things like awkward hits and axes hitting 2 guys maxing out is useful

focusing on combat also helps if you just execute a bunch of enemies instead of out managing them

Good point. I like higher handling, and swing speed.

But do u feel that the difference between 1 handed 300 is THAT much better than 1 handed 225??? I dunno. Sure it's "better", but do I need it that much "better"?

I already swing faster than pretty much everyone in Bannerlord. (at 225) So is it worth the points to go to 300??or 330??

For me, (unless I'm giving myself free att and focus points, in a cheat campaign) I think points are better spent elsewhere, than trying to push Polearm from 200 to 300 (my fave melee weapon).

I tend to think 275-300 skills are supposed to be game changers (extra influence, Extra HP, extra Party size, Reduced food/denars maintenance)

And some skills just don't have this IMO. (archery, xbow, throw, melee etc). There is a boost for sure, but not "UBER skill" like "trade settlements", or "extra influence for every 5 pts past this skill" etc.

[Major0Noob]

i'm playing with "Post Mortem" controlling a companion after getting knocked out.
the switch from my 300 guy to the 250 and 200 companions is significant

with my guy i can take kill 80+ people, the companions about 30-40