Making enough passive income impossible

[Beyond.Celsus]

I have 3 workshops making max 200 a piece. One caravan which is another 200, but I lose 600 a day
My party, a small 30 man party and a large garrison in a castle of about 220 men.
The castle is making no money, because the trust is too low and gaining trust takes forever. This character will be dead from old age before I see any benefit from having a castle.

Then there is the mercenary fees.
What?
I have no mercenaries and the kingdom is at peace so why am I paying almost 300 in mercenary fees?
Then there is the tribute to other countries.

Money in this game is wack and makes no sense.
Warband did it better and it was actually manageable since your properties and workshops made decent money and you didn't have to pay for invisible mercs.

This is just impossible and and starting to feel like having castles and cities (which is the bloody aim of the game) is actually not worth it and ruining the experience for me.

Help?

[Drakken]

You can make money without smithing, even selling, just take a look at my screnshots...
All this without mods...

[Voncrow]

Publicado originalmente por Beyond.Celsus:

People still seem to be confused what the issue is.
Making money is not the issue. It's ridiculously easy actually.
The problem is the only way to make money is to grind it constantly.

To me, that is not fun. If I want to grind I will play an MMO or one of those survival crafting games.

If 3 workshops a caravan and a castle with two villages can't sustain a half full castle and a party of 30 mid tier troops, then something is very wrong.

I'll say it again, YOU are the one confused about Bannerlord. You don't have to constantly grind, winning one big battle can literally give hundreds of thousands of denars. No matter how much upkeep you have it will last you weeks to months. Doubly so if you have a mercenary contract. On top of that, Bannerlord isn't a tycoon game. You aren't supposed to have amazing passive income that allows you to just sit around doing nothing, because that discourages you from gettting into battles. Literally the whole point of Bannerlord is the battles and fighting, so the developers created a game that encourages and even forces you into battles. It's that simple. If you don't like that then it's not your type of game.

Publicado originalmente por D'Cinamon:

well, would you rather spending time and skill point just for the sole purpose of exploiting the smithy, or just let a mod make passive income viable so you can just play the rest of the game without having to worry much about money?

personally i prefer the later. and its not an op mod either unlike exploiting the smithy.

Honestly, why even bother using a cheat mod when you can just use console commands to give yourself gold? I guess you can have the illusion of "it's not cheating because I didn't give myself unlimited resources." But you did give yourself extra resources.

[GreatPalm]

imo formula is simple: player needs money(or any resource) => player does ingame activities with fun to get that resources => player gets both fun and resources(to get even more fun by spending resources).
Need for resources stays for encouraging player to do certain activities(to get resources) to make player try and play more activities and have more diverse experience in sandbox game.
Some idiots say that "wow it is so good idea to make player to choose between fun and farm". It works for f2p mmo games with player made economy, not in single player games.
Economy is wack like it is alpha, simple.

there is no point in playing this game by 'rules' because 'rules' are biased. By ingame rules best way to get money from start is smithing, and smithing is also the least fun way to play.(Devs are just incompetent)

[Voncrow]

Publicado originalmente por GreatPalm:

imo formula is simple: player needs money(or any resource) => player does ingame activities with fun to get that resources => player gets both fun and resources(to get even more fun by spending resources).
Need for resources stays for encouraging player to do certain activities(to get resources) to make player try and play more activities and have more diverse experience in sandbox game.
Some idiots say that "wow it is so good idea to make player to choose between fun and farm". It works for f2p mmo games with player made economy, not in single player games.
Economy is wack like it is alpha, simple.

there is no point in playing this game by 'rules' because 'rules' are biased. By ingame rules best way to get money from start is smithing, and smithing is also the least fun way to play.(Devs are just incompetent)

The best way to make money is to get into battles. Which seems like a good idea for a battle simulator. There is no point in the game where you need to trade or smith. It is true that the economy is unfinished, but it also the least important part of the game. No one bought Bannerlord so they could maximize their passive income.

[kristianjakob]

Publicado originalmente por GreatPalm:

imo formula is simple: player needs money(or any resource) => player does ingame activities with fun to get that resources => player gets both fun and resources(to get even more fun by spending resources).
Need for resources stays for encouraging player to do certain activities(to get resources) to make player try and play more activities and have more diverse experience in sandbox game.
Some idiots say that "wow it is so good idea to make player to choose between fun and farm". It works for f2p mmo games with player made economy, not in single player games.
Economy is wack like it is alpha, simple.

there is no point in playing this game by 'rules' because 'rules' are biased. By ingame rules best way to get money from start is smithing, and smithing is also the least fun way to play.(Devs are just incompetent)

And we are back to the same misguided logic again.

You make your money through battle, you gain your xp through battle, you improve your clan tier through battle...you even make your friends through battle.

Smithing is not a problem nor is it a solution to anything. It is irrelevant. The real problem with smithing is that the nerfs have made it much harder to use it for what is, no doubt, its actually intended purpose; make customized gear for you and your companions.

[Smugass Braixen-Chan]

Here is an idea!

1. Buy a workshop in a city that is part of your trade-loop
2. Change workshop to a type that uses a resource that is hard to acquire locally, but is up-stream along your trade-loop.
3. Sell it.

[[Will need to experiment to see whether the workshop will just reset to its original type]]

You've just created more demand for a resource that you plan to sell in this city anyway, with the only real cost to you being $2000 + the difference in buying and selling the workshop.

You can also double dip and BUY the end-product of the workshops to sell to cities down-stream.

IMO this is the real value of workshops: Generating supply and demand, to make trading more profitable (And level up the Trade Skill faster)

[Voncrow]

Publicado originalmente por Smugass Braixen-Chan:

Here is an idea!

1. Buy a workshop in a city that is part of your trade-loop
2. Change workshop to a type that uses a resource that is hard to acquire locally, but is up-stream along your trade-loop.
3. Sell it.

[[Will need to experiment to see whether the workshop will just reset to its original type]]

You've just created more demand for a resource that you plan to sell in this city anyway, with the only real cost to you being $2000 + the difference in buying and selling the workshop.

You can also double dip and BUY the end-product of the workshops to sell to cities down-stream.

IMO this is the real value of workshops: Generating supply and demand, to make trading more profitable (And level up the Trade Skill faster)

Having tried this through several iterations of the game, this doesn't work. For one, the trade workshop will quickly use the amount of material you can sell for a profit, usually have unimpressive results until it stops producing trade goods altogether (making 0 denars). As a result, you either have to baby sit your workshops, selling a huge amounts of material to the town for a loss, or accept your workshop won't be profitable.

Ultimately, trading is most profitable to have longer diverse routes so that you give time for markets to reset. Otherwise you'll flood the market and stop making a profit until it slowly regresses. It's just much more profitable to get workshops based on local surpluses in high prosperity towns.

[Clovis Sangrail]

Publicado originalmente por D'Cinamon:

Publicado originalmente por Clovis Sangrail:

Yes, instead you can exploit the mod.

well, would you rather spending time and skill point just for the sole purpose of exploiting the smithy, or just let a mod make passive income viable so you can just play the rest of the game without having to worry much about money?

personally i prefer the later. and its not an op mod either unlike exploiting the smithy.

Well then, go for it. But don't delude yourself into thinking you are somehow better than those who smith or those who exploit battle loot or even those who just say 'screw it' and console in a big ol' wad of cash just because you're running a mod that siphons in extra money. You are not.

Cheese is cheese, regardless of the flavor.

[kristianjakob]

Publicado originalmente por Clovis Sangrail:

Publicado originalmente por D'Cinamon:

well, would you rather spending time and skill point just for the sole purpose of exploiting the smithy, or just let a mod make passive income viable so you can just play the rest of the game without having to worry much about money?

personally i prefer the later. and its not an op mod either unlike exploiting the smithy.

Well then, go for it. But don't delude yourself into thinking you are somehow better than those who smith or those who exploit battle loot or even those who just say 'screw it' and console in a big ol' wad of cash just because you're running a mod that siphons in extra money. You are not.

Cheese is cheese, regardless of the flavor.

Add in trade and you have basically ruled cheese on everything but boardgames and tournaments. Why stop there.

[Clovis Sangrail]

Publicado originalmente por kristianjakob:

Publicado originalmente por Clovis Sangrail:

Well then, go for it. But don't delude yourself into thinking you are somehow better than those who smith or those who exploit battle loot or even those who just say 'screw it' and console in a big ol' wad of cash just because you're running a mod that siphons in extra money. You are not.

Cheese is cheese, regardless of the flavor.

Add in trade and you have basically ruled cheese on everything but boardgames and tournaments. Why stop there.

My point is that everyone has their own favorite way to jack up their cash flow, but they are all cheesy when you exploit them. So one should not be smug and supercilious and condescending and act all superior to those who march to the beat of a different cheesemaker.

I believe it is written in the bible in Matthew 7:5 -- 'Thou hypocrite, first cast out the cheese out of thine own eye; and then shalt thou see clearly to cast out the cheese out of thy brother's eye.'

Or something like that.

[Morkonan]

Publicado originalmente por Fryskar:

..
Wouldn't mind that either.
But doubt that is going to happen outsides of mods.

You are very likely going to be correct on that. AFAIK, the "Council of Nay" has expressed displeasure regarding suggestions to expand Blacksmithing mechanics into a general Crafting mechanic. I don't know why... Because if they think that's too much focus away from primary gameplay, uh... Well, they've already made "crafting" a primary point in gameplay. It has a whole Skill line, Perks, special supporting mechanics, companion tie-ins, etc. It's "already" in the game as a substantial component of gameplay, or at least as a very strongly supported "elective." (Supported to a very unusual degree, considering it's not supposed to be "required.")

Anyway, yup - it's probably going to end up being a "mod thing." It'll be so commonly used by Crafting fans, though, that it may as well be a base-game mechanic.

[Someguyinhere]

The people who argue that it's stupid that the economy isn't completely busted and doesn't just pour millions of denars into your treasury so that you can have 900 man garrisons of tier 6 noble troops and a maxed out personal army make me laugh. The game would be ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥ awful if it was that way, and I guarantee they'd be complaining about how easy it is and why there's no point in striving for anything.

[Beyond.Celsus]

Publicado originalmente por Someguyinhere:

The people who argue that it's stupid that the economy isn't completely busted and doesn't just pour millions of denars into your treasury so that you can have 900 man garrisons of tier 6 noble troops and a maxed out personal army make me laugh. The game would be ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥ awful if it was that way, and I guarantee they'd be complaining about how easy it is and why there's no point in striving for anything.

Not a single person asked for 'millions' or 'maxed out armies'
Instead of discussing the issue and yes, there is one, you rather exaggerate to make some sort of point?
As far as I can see, you have no point, apart from making flippant comments.

The passive income mechanic sucks.
The workshops suck.
The merc payment mechanic sucks.
The tribute mechanic suck.

There are all of these mechanics in the game designed to passively drain your income with no benefit, yet no mechanic to passively combat the money drain.

I don't want 'millions thrown at me'
I want balance to the passive income/expense system, because at the moment its garbage.

[Drakken]

Publicado originalmente por Beyond.Celsus:

Publicado originalmente por Someguyinhere:

The people who argue that it's stupid that the economy isn't completely busted and doesn't just pour millions of denars into your treasury so that you can have 900 man garrisons of tier 6 noble troops and a maxed out personal army make me laugh. The game would be ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥ awful if it was that way, and I guarantee they'd be complaining about how easy it is and why there's no point in striving for anything.

Not a single person asked for 'millions' or 'maxed out armies'
Instead of discussing the issue and yes, there is one, you rather exaggerate to make some sort of point?
As far as I can see, you have no point, apart from making flippant comments.

The passive income mechanic sucks.
The workshops suck.
The merc payment mechanic sucks.
The tribute mechanic suck.

There are all of these mechanics in the game designed to passively drain your income with no benefit, yet no mechanic to passively combat the money drain.

I don't want 'millions thrown at me'
I want balance to the passive income/expense system, because at the moment its garbage.

No, it's perfect, you are just very bad with this game.
Once again take a look at my screenshots and dare to argue against what you see, but you are not really interested by the game mechanic.
On the screenshots you have all the information you need, no excuse.

[Beyond.Celsus]

Publicado originalmente por Drakken:

Publicado originalmente por Beyond.Celsus:

Not a single person asked for 'millions' or 'maxed out armies'
Instead of discussing the issue and yes, there is one, you rather exaggerate to make some sort of point?
As far as I can see, you have no point, apart from making flippant comments.

The passive income mechanic sucks.
The workshops suck.
The merc payment mechanic sucks.
The tribute mechanic suck.

There are all of these mechanics in the game designed to passively drain your income with no benefit, yet no mechanic to passively combat the money drain.

I don't want 'millions thrown at me'
I want balance to the passive income/expense system, because at the moment its garbage.

No, it's perfect, you are just very bad with this game.
Once again take a look at my screenshots and dare to argue against what you see, but you are not really interested by the game mechanic.
On the screenshots you have all the information you need, no excuse.

I actually quoted your post and said you should write a guide.
I would like some help with this issue, that is why the thread was created, but now you rather just be insulting?
Okay, God of bannerlord. You are so superduper good at this game like OMG. I am poor scrub, game hard for me small brain. I bow before you.

Feel good now?