Another thoughts on roguery

[Lord Savage]

Roguery does nothing.
Not at all as far i can tell (thats why i called myself masochist when i decidet to lvl roguery (part 1). And i wanted to roleplay as bandit. But leveling roguery is so dam slow that u can become emperor of united empire more faster than able bandit.
Usefull bandit perks are about lvl 100 of roguery and oh boy before u hit lvl 100 rog u can unite empire (by the way) even when you focus to lvl up roguery.
Its so shame that u became king of existing kingdom faster then good thug.

For now roguery is just dead end of evolution.
Maybe they got big plans with these in future.
And this topic is useles for now but..

When you roleplay as "robin hood" lets say live in forest, robing and ransoming lords (in your personal small war) and leading bandits theres no way to hit adequate lvl in rog. And at the end roguery doesnt improve your abilities of thief/ bandit.
When you want recruit bandits more easily you need lvl 150 rog!!!
Thats endgame (atleast totaly late game). At the time you can be king of some kingdom. Maybe of your own. Why on earth is managing kingdom and leading NOBLE lords from ANCIENT clans easier then convice some bandits to join you ?
Bandit life should be like dark side of the Force. Its faster, easier and more deadly. But not better in long term.

At the time when you hit lvl 150 ROG u probably own city or 2 or some castles or half of your kingdom. Why on earth you should give it up and start some bandit life even if you want it as a roleplay. Its totaly out of role to own lots of fiefs and then retry to forest.
You may be looter who eventualy evolves in noble man and lord. Not king who become looter. Yes why not this way but i want to say its more easy be king than good looter who lead bandit troops ... makes no sense.

And when you tell me that roguery isn't about bandits and "mafia life", but more about cunning like dark side of charm. Let's make one skill tree for relations which will include charm and cunning. It will better form your personality. You will need to make decision are you dirty schemer or noble man ?
- It should be base for npc how they see you and interact with you.
- It will provide more personality depth.

[Cabman12]

Freeing lords from dungeons seemed to work really fast, gaining 30 points at once. I think that if you focused on freeing lords you could hit lvl 150 much faster than what you're saying now.

[Lord Savage]

Originally posted by Cabman12:

Freeing lords from dungeons seemed to work really fast, gaining 30 points at once. I think that if you focused on freeing lords you could hit lvl 150 much faster than what you're saying now.

Got rog 140 right now. Learning rate 9x and for freeing lord i get 2 points. After lvl 170 it will be max 1. Also when you free someone you cant sneak in some estate few days... slow at all

[Ruffio]

loot you get from battles with 0 rog, and high level is like night and day though.

[Cabman12]

Originally posted by Lord Savage:

Originally posted by Cabman12:

Freeing lords from dungeons seemed to work really fast, gaining 30 points at once. I think that if you focused on freeing lords you could hit lvl 150 much faster than what you're saying now.

Got rog 140 right now. Learning rate 9x and for freeing lord i get 2 points. After lvl 170 it will be max 1. Also when you free someone you cant sneak in some estate few days... slow at all

Well then I really don't know, but XP gain is still in balance so maybe it will change soon (also sorry I realize my first post sounded condescendent, wasn't meant to but nonetheless sorry)

[Fusei]

Getting close to 200 (no attributes 5 focus points) by selling prisoners and making a handful of prison breaks after 10ish years.
I do fight a lot though.

Imo roguery isn't as bad as leveling as medicine or trading (without exploits). A bandit plauthrough feels very hollow though and repetitive, I'd really like to be able to make hideouts and have more options with city gangs.

[Lord Savage]

Originally posted by Cabman12:

Originally posted by Lord Savage:

Got rog 140 right now. Learning rate 9x and for freeing lord i get 2 points. After lvl 170 it will be max 1. Also when you free someone you cant sneak in some estate few days... slow at all

Well then I really don't know, but XP gain is still in balance so maybe it will change soon (also sorry I realize my first post sounded condescendent, wasn't meant to but nonetheless sorry)

Nah man i don't consider your post as condescendent. I Wish u nice day:)

[Muscarine]

Originally posted by Cabman12:

Freeing lords from dungeons seemed to work really fast, gaining 30 points at once. I think that if you focused on freeing lords you could hit lvl 150 much faster than what you're saying now.

On paper it's great, unfortunately once you're high renown you'll get 0% chance to successfully disguise no matter how high your Roguery level is

I think they want Roguery to be a skill line for people who keep their clan small and avoid fighting, so like a complement to trading
Especially since failing equals automatic capture, so you have to go alone with no inventory

But in practice it just doesn't work

They need to remove or drastically change the renown vs success formula, among other things

It's painfully slow to level and arguably most perks are entirely useless
The passive +loot is also pointless since it goes against avoiding to gain renown first, and because it's absolutely not needed to swim in money anyway

[Compost]

roguery is great for battle loot.
find scale stuff all the time
can sneak into any town at war at t6 clan level
bribes are lower
bandits love me
the crime level is so dumb and disappears pretty quickly

[d’Artagnan]

Get enough cash like 100k. then roam arround alone and do prison breaks. with focus points etc. you get 5-7 skill points per breakout. since you raided a few caravans to get that gold(if you didn't cheat with blacksmithing) then you should need arround 15-20 breakouts max.

Edit: Since I did this for the first time, I would get a little more gold and then make peace with every faction, so you can free any Lord and get to the dungeon easily. Im 150 Roguery now with about 8hours of gameplay. (I wasted a lot of time too)

[Hasbulat]

To OP - I understand your issue, but this game isnt a Witcher or any kind of Assasin Thug.

Its Mount and Blade, not Knife and Cloak.

This game is about large battles and sieges. With some options of diplomacy, trading and fief management. Its not a rogue adventure.

Next time you will wish to play as a nurse at the city hospital on role play basis. And heal every citizen who needs your help. ;)

[d’Artagnan]

Well the perk that allows you to recruit any bandit party is really rewarding. Whats more fun than throwing hordes of thugs at the Noble sons of ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥ >:D

[ShepherdOfCats]

Originally posted by Hasbulat:

To OP - I understand your issue, but this game isnt a Witcher or any kind of Assasin Thug.

Its Mount and Blade, not Knife and Cloak.

This game is about large battles and sieges. With some options of diplomacy, trading and fief management. Its not a rogue adventure.

Next time you will wish to play as a nurse at the city hospital on role play basis. And heal every citizen who needs your help. ;)

There's a skill tree for roguery so there is merit to the OP's argument. And there's a skill tree for surgeon, so there's even merit to your analogy, even if you weren't being sarcastic. Though I suppose there are certainly more people interested in playing as a bandit than a nurse.

--------------

As to the OP, what if roguery xp gain was tied to your criminal rating? The higher your criminal rating, the faster you gain xp. It would need some balance because right now even if I'm going around doing as many criminal tasks as I can find, I rarely get criminal rating over 20 before it decays. That, and some of the quests are brain-dead easy, "buy some stolen goods, tell the merchant to leave you alone, and congratulations you're done." Or, "Go buy 6 wool and bring them to me. Okay good job." These quests don't seem to affect roguery skill gain but for some reason they give you charm, as all the other quests do.

I agree that by the time my roguery skill is leveled to 50-75+, I'm already some super-powerful king and it kind of spoils the lore for my character.

[Wanted111who]

Originally posted by ShepherdOfCats:

Originally posted by Hasbulat:

To OP - I understand your issue, but this game isnt a Witcher or any kind of Assasin Thug.

Its Mount and Blade, not Knife and Cloak.

This game is about large battles and sieges. With some options of diplomacy, trading and fief management. Its not a rogue adventure.

Next time you will wish to play as a nurse at the city hospital on role play basis. And heal every citizen who needs your help. ;)

There's a skill tree for roguery so there is merit to the OP's argument. And there's a skill tree for surgeon, so there's even merit to your analogy, even if you weren't being sarcastic.

--------------

As to the OP, what if roguery xp gain was tied to your criminal rating? The higher your criminal rating, the faster you gain xp. It would need some balance because right now even if I'm going around doing as many criminal tasks as I can find, I rarely get criminal rating over 20 before it decays. That, and some of the quests are brain-dead easy, "buy some stolen goods, tell the merchant to leave you alone, and congratulations you're done." Or, "Go buy 6 wool and bring them to me. Okay good job." These quests don't seem to affect roguery skill gain but for some reason they give you charm, as all the other quests do.

I agree that by the time my roguery skill is leveled to 50-75+, I'm already some super-powerful king and it kind of spoils the lore for my character.

I have 0 focus on rogue, breakout a lord from prison once, instantly get 30 point, in red and i can get first rogue perks. I just randomly stop by a town for trading and decided to check the prison and found lord in captive. I think if i actively search every town, i can get many chances for prisoner rescue. Npc will store their prisoner in town.

[ShepherdOfCats]

Originally posted by Wanted111who:

Originally posted by ShepherdOfCats:

There's a skill tree for roguery so there is merit to the OP's argument. And there's a skill tree for surgeon, so there's even merit to your analogy, even if you weren't being sarcastic.

--------------

As to the OP, what if roguery xp gain was tied to your criminal rating? The higher your criminal rating, the faster you gain xp. It would need some balance because right now even if I'm going around doing as many criminal tasks as I can find, I rarely get criminal rating over 20 before it decays. That, and some of the quests are brain-dead easy, "buy some stolen goods, tell the merchant to leave you alone, and congratulations you're done." Or, "Go buy 6 wool and bring them to me. Okay good job." These quests don't seem to affect roguery skill gain but for some reason they give you charm, as all the other quests do.

I agree that by the time my roguery skill is leveled to 50-75+, I'm already some super-powerful king and it kind of spoils the lore for my character.

I have 0 focus on rogue, breakout a lord from prison once, instantly get 30 point, in red and i can get first rogue perks. I just randomly stop by a town for trading and decided to check the prison and found lord in captive. I think if i actively search every town, i can get many chances for prisoner rescue. Npc will store their prisoner in town.

Thanks. I will have to try that now. I did a mission where I went to someone's house and killed two guards to free someone's family member but it wasn't the same thing. I didn't know you can just go to dungeons and free captives.