in my view blacksmithing can be made less of a exploit and more of a expert specialised

[Chief Minister of Gaming]

by not allowing the other companions to smelt, or smith, or anything at all, unless the companion is a smith, that is a dedicated, NAMED as Smith, and the other companions cannot smith at all.

that way, the whole system remains, but we simply take out mass production of weapons, by having only

A) your player
B) a hired smith companion

and

C)

Also raising the stamina required to forge

This way, only one weapon or two can be made per day.



In my view, the game is too exploitable otherwise

and it might pay to grey out the smith skill for all other companions,

you will then see in the perk window, smith greyed out for all other companions.

Then the system made is already good, and will reduce the mass production. And make the whole weapon making more of a crafted and special thing,

[Ruffio]

Must be hard for you with that gun pointing at your head forcing you to do smithing in this game. Just open the console and give yourself gold...... omg! how are you going to resist that temptation...

[VoiD]

Blacksmith is just broken and should be removed/reworked.

It doesn't interact with any other mechanics in the game in any other way, to do blacksmithing you have to stop playing M&B and just sit in a town, click a lot, and sit again, passing time, ignoring the world's events, ignoring the armies, the battles, the factions, the trading, the dates, everything, it doesn't connect with anything at all.

Likewise, not doing it doesn't harm the bannerlord experience in any way, since it's not connected to anything else.

[Lord Savage]

when you don't like snowballing effect of smithing then earn money otherwise. With trade for example. Run from town to town years to earn some goold. Or use only passive icome. Enjoy it with your 40 man group. Thats all u will be able to maintain.

[Clovis Sangrail]

Smithing is not as overpowered as being a mercenary and selling battle loot. Should they do something about that, too?

[VoiD]

Originally posted by Clovis Sangrail:

Smithing is not as overpowered as being a mercenary and selling battle loot. Should they do something about that, too?

Not true, and even if it was, no.

Mercenary work interacts with every mechanic in the game and is working as intended.

[Clovis Sangrail]

Originally posted by VoiD:

Originally posted by Clovis Sangrail:

Smithing is not as overpowered as being a mercenary and selling battle loot. Should they do something about that, too?

Not true, and even if it was, no.

Mercenary work interacts with every mechanic in the game and is working as intended.

It is true, especially early. I can make way more money being a mercenary for Vlandia and raiding caravans than I ever could smithing with the crappy parts you start with. Mercenaries get paid twice -- once for being a merc and once when you sell the loot. And Vlandian mercenaries get a bonus on top of that.

You battle fan bois just don't see how much of an exploit that can be.

[Koor]

Smithing should require you to buy a smithy and either assign an npc like you would a governor, or sit there yourself and do it. Get rid of stamina. Make the player/npc only be able to smith at the location of their smithy, which takes up a workshop position. The npc will slowly gain smithing xp much like a governor does/caravaner does. And you'd get a steady gold trickle like you would other workshops.

But when you wanted something specific crafted, you'd head to that location and craft it with your smith, or sit there and do the smith quests.

But yeah, smithed gear prices are busted. They really need to fix the economy. Weapons/armor shouldn't cost 100k+ or sell for 10k+.

Drastically drop weapon/armor costs, maybe give them durability (ugh), or make it so that you need to equip all new recruits instead of them miraculously having top tier arms/armor the second they get a promotion.

Oh, maybe rework the system where all of your normal combat troops get a basic set of arms/armor that can be overridden by giving them an item. The basic armor would be mediocre compared to what they have now. Say you have a Fian Champion. His armor/weapons would no longer be t5/6 gear, but a t3/4. You hand him a better bow, and it would go into a bow slot, much like how other games have a vanity item overlay for characters. If that Fian dies, the bow would either automatically go to a different Fian, or would return to a set armory.

That way top tier troops would still have some interaction and you would have a reason to mass produce weapons/armor. Maybe have crafting orders you can submit to your npc smith sitting behind in your town smithy. You want x number of 2h swords. You give a basic sword design and he gives you a resource amount and or gold cost. Then you have to wait for the order to be filled. Weapons/armor would have fluctuations in quality like when we craft. But it would be a way of using this system instead of just a mass craft > bankrupt towns.

[Barick]

Originally posted by Koor:

Smithing should require you to buy a smithy and either assign an npc like you would a governor, or sit there yourself and do it. Get rid of stamina. Make the player/npc only be able to smith at the location of their smithy, which takes up a workshop position. The npc will slowly gain smithing xp much like a governor does/caravaner does. And you'd get a steady gold trickle like you would other workshops.

But when you wanted something specific crafted, you'd head to that location and craft it with your smith, or sit there and do the smith quests.

But yeah, smithed gear prices are busted. They really need to fix the economy. Weapons/armor shouldn't cost 100k+ or sell for 10k+.

Drastically drop weapon/armor costs, maybe give them durability (ugh), or make it so that you need to equip all new recruits instead of them miraculously having top tier arms/armor the second they get a promotion.

Oh, maybe rework the system where all of your normal combat troops get a basic set of arms/armor that can be overridden by giving them an item. The basic armor would be mediocre compared to what they have now. Say you have a Fian Champion. His armor/weapons would no longer be t5/6 gear, but a t3/4. You hand him a better bow, and it would go into a bow slot, much like how other games have a vanity item overlay for characters. If that Fian dies, the bow would either automatically go to a different Fian, or would return to a set armory.

That way top tier troops would still have some interaction and you would have a reason to mass produce weapons/armor. Maybe have crafting orders you can submit to your npc smith sitting behind in your town smithy. You want x number of 2h swords. You give a basic sword design and he gives you a resource amount and or gold cost. Then you have to wait for the order to be filled. Weapons/armor would have fluctuations in quality like when we craft. But it would be a way of using this system instead of just a mass craft > bankrupt towns.

Honestly the whole smithy idea you have is pretty good and a great way to make it feel less like an exploit. While I think smithing is cool I never use it because it feels like cheating, I would like having to buy a smithy and more interaction with that. Honestly would be cool if they added more we could do with all of the workshops so they are actually fun to deal with rather than something you buy and then forget.

[Ruffio]

Originally posted by Clovis Sangrail:

Originally posted by VoiD:

Not true, and even if it was, no.

Mercenary work interacts with every mechanic in the game and is working as intended.

It is true, especially early. I can make way more money being a mercenary for Vlandia and raiding caravans than I ever could smithing with the crappy parts you start with. Mercenaries get paid twice -- once for being a merc and once when you sell the loot. And Vlandian mercenaries get a bonus on top of that.

You battle fan bois just don't see how much of an exploit that can be.

High rogue skill have a gerat iimpact on battle loot. 1300+ vs 1500+ army battle did net me about 200k from gold, loot and prisoners... Constant fighting make you more cash than smithing in the long run.

Only time when I do smithing is when I have to wait in a town to expand the family. Not like you can tell family members to start knock out some offsprings.

The value of things in earlier versions of the game made it very easy to get rich fast. That isn't the case any longer though. As for those that advocate for it is a exploit and a cheat. Well, people that want to cheat. They used the console and just add cash. They don't bother with spend all the clicks involved with smithing Or they CHEAT by use mods....

It's funny how people want to impose changes to a single player game, where peoples's style of play affect no one but themselves.

[muricaderp]

Originally posted by Barick:

Originally posted by Koor:

Smithing should require you to buy a smithy and either assign an npc like you would a governor, or sit there yourself and do it. Get rid of stamina. Make the player/npc only be able to smith at the location of their smithy, which takes up a workshop position. The npc will slowly gain smithing xp much like a governor does/caravaner does. And you'd get a steady gold trickle like you would other workshops.

But when you wanted something specific crafted, you'd head to that location and craft it with your smith, or sit there and do the smith quests.

But yeah, smithed gear prices are busted. They really need to fix the economy. Weapons/armor shouldn't cost 100k+ or sell for 10k+.

Drastically drop weapon/armor costs, maybe give them durability (ugh), or make it so that you need to equip all new recruits instead of them miraculously having top tier arms/armor the second they get a promotion.

Oh, maybe rework the system where all of your normal combat troops get a basic set of arms/armor that can be overridden by giving them an item. The basic armor would be mediocre compared to what they have now. Say you have a Fian Champion. His armor/weapons would no longer be t5/6 gear, but a t3/4. You hand him a better bow, and it would go into a bow slot, much like how other games have a vanity item overlay for characters. If that Fian dies, the bow would either automatically go to a different Fian, or would return to a set armory.

That way top tier troops would still have some interaction and you would have a reason to mass produce weapons/armor. Maybe have crafting orders you can submit to your npc smith sitting behind in your town smithy. You want x number of 2h swords. You give a basic sword design and he gives you a resource amount and or gold cost. Then you have to wait for the order to be filled. Weapons/armor would have fluctuations in quality like when we craft. But it would be a way of using this system instead of just a mass craft > bankrupt towns.

Honestly the whole smithy idea you have is pretty good and a great way to make it feel less like an exploit. While I think smithing is cool I never use it because it feels like cheating, I would like having to buy a smithy and more interaction with that. Honestly would be cool if they added more we could do with all of the workshops so they are actually fun to deal with rather than something you buy and then forget.

I agree 100 percent, i mean even warband you were able to interact a little by giving your workshop raw materials that you "acquired" in hopes of making a bigger profit (or was that a mod? idk but ya).

[Cabman12]

Originally posted by VoiD:

Blacksmith is just broken and should be removed/reworked.

It doesn't interact with any other mechanics in the game in any other way, to do blacksmithing you have to stop playing M&B and just sit in a town, click a lot, and sit again, passing time, ignoring the world's events, ignoring the armies, the battles, the factions, the trading, the dates, everything, it doesn't connect with anything at all.

Likewise, not doing it doesn't harm the bannerlord experience in any way, since it's not connected to anything else.

Well, how do you get wood and metal ? The easiest way is through the loot that you smelt. So smithing relates to fighting. Also, smithing gives you weapons, that allow you to fight even more. Perfect loop.

And for all those who say that exploiting the smithing is the only way to have money... As Clovis Sangrail explained, merc+fight is the best way to make toooooons of money while having fun. You can also trade+merc+fight looters/caravans/lords... I have currently 1 million gold without having ever sold one crafted weapon, and I'm not even this far into the game, I just have one city and I fight, endlessly.

And if you play that way, smithing becomes a sidepart activity that you get to do when waiting for your health/wounded soldiers to recover when waiting in a town. You keep some of the loot to smelt, you forge some weapons/orders to gain xp, in order to unlock parts that will allow you to craft your unique weapons in the late game.

tl;dr : there are legit ways to earn money and smithing is useful to give you unique weapons, as intended by the devs. If you aren't able to refrain yourself from exploiting the game, it's not the devs fault but yours.

[Edmund Greyfox]

Clovis is right. If you think you make a lot of money smithing you've never focused on making money from battles. Yeah, looters and bandits aren't worth much, but as long as you are fighting other lords it's easy to make lots of cash. In the same time you spent smithing some swords and sitting in town waiting for your stamina to regenerate you could fight multiple battles that bring in 20k+ each.

[Koor]

Perhaps even tie quality of items in the shop to the maximum tier level of the troops that spawn there. So you'd only ever find tier 1-2 troops out in villages, and if there were expensive swords/armor on the trader in the city that it would make the higher tier troops spawn there. Recruiting that unit would cause the high cost items to disappear. So it would remove all of those copies of your smithed items from the marketplace over time.

While we're at it, recruiting higher tier troops/promoting them should be drastically more money to simulate equipping them.

[Ruffio]

Originally posted by Koor:

Smithing should require you to buy a smithy and either assign an npc like you would a governor, or sit there yourself and do it. Get rid of stamina. Make the player/npc only be able to smith at the location of their smithy, which takes up a workshop position. The npc will slowly gain smithing xp much like a governor does/caravaner does. And you'd get a steady gold trickle like you would other workshops.

But when you wanted something specific crafted, you'd head to that location and craft it with your smith, or sit there and do the smith quests.

But yeah, smithed gear prices are busted. They really need to fix the economy. Weapons/armor shouldn't cost 100k+ or sell for 10k+.

Drastically drop weapon/armor costs, maybe give them durability (ugh), or make it so that you need to equip all new recruits instead of them miraculously having top tier arms/armor the second they get a promotion.

Oh, maybe rework the system where all of your normal combat troops get a basic set of arms/armor that can be overridden by giving them an item. The basic armor would be mediocre compared to what they have now. Say you have a Fian Champion. His armor/weapons would no longer be t5/6 gear, but a t3/4. You hand him a better bow, and it would go into a bow slot, much like how other games have a vanity item overlay for characters. If that Fian dies, the bow would either automatically go to a different Fian, or would return to a set armory.

That way top tier troops would still have some interaction and you would have a reason to mass produce weapons/armor. Maybe have crafting orders you can submit to your npc smith sitting behind in your town smithy. You want x number of 2h swords. You give a basic sword design and he gives you a resource amount and or gold cost. Then you have to wait for the order to be filled. Weapons/armor would have fluctuations in quality like when we craft. But it would be a way of using this system instead of just a mass craft > bankrupt towns.

Yeah, because nothing scream FUN more than have to equip hundreds of units manually,over and over and over right? You want to make it so tedious people will end up scream to the screen. I suppose should do the same with all workshops, you need to assign party members to them for them to work, and keep them manually supplied with resources for them to work... And like that, you turned the game into a forced "trading game" to get anywhere...

How about we cut all loot and loot value by 90%, and all your income is based on quests, what you can earn as a merc, or whatever tax income your fiefs bring. ?

Also, reduce the tier of units you can hire/make based on clan levels. So tiers follow clan levels.... I like the sound of that.... we need to make the game as grindy as possible...

[kristianjakob]

Originally posted by Ruffio:

Originally posted by Clovis Sangrail:

It is true, especially early. I can make way more money being a mercenary for Vlandia and raiding caravans than I ever could smithing with the crappy parts you start with. Mercenaries get paid twice -- once for being a merc and once when you sell the loot. And Vlandian mercenaries get a bonus on top of that.

You battle fan bois just don't see how much of an exploit that can be.

High rogue skill have a gerat iimpact on battle loot. 1300+ vs 1500+ army battle did net me about 200k from gold, loot and prisoners... Constant fighting make you more cash than smithing in the long run.

No, it does not. In my last game (1.65) I had an average daily net income of 24.500 during the merc phase of the game. Hell, I even reached a daily merc payments above 10k at a point.

And yeah, as cool as it is, and despite what some seems to think, good big armies are just not that common. When you wipe one of them out you can expect that fishing is going to be slower subsequently.

Even with the nerf of smithing in 1.7 you can still make fare more than that. I believe a smith can craft as often as 18 times a day; provided you actually have the materials. Everyone can contribute to that.

It still does not matter. Fighting provides every resource you need in the game, smithing provides only money. Aside for a few gimmic playstiles such as buying cities or similar money isnt that terribly important a resource.