Is Raiding Profitable?

[Berzerker Jay]

In general it's seemed fairly pointless unless as part of an overall siege strategy, but on the pure banditry level it seems pretty ridiculous? For each day of raiding, the rewards seem to be one or two units of trade goods. The only target that seems to have any potential of being worth the wages paid to continue raiding, though not likely worth the risk, are horses.

Am I missing something? I know a higher Roguery skill makes it faster, but realistically there's substantial more profit to be found in hunting weak parties of looters. That's pretty limiting to gameplay, I think -- a lot of the variety in professions available in Warband just aren't really feasible in Bannerlord, and I had expected the opposite: an increase in diversity.

Realistically, shouldn't we be able to raid much more loot in the amount of time it takes to raid villages? One or two grain or cheese just doesn't seem reasonable -- I'm losing interest in my bandit character fast.

[Private Pyle]

I did a bandit playthrough and raided a bunch of villages. Seems like theres many cons, as you stated. Really damages relations which is especially bad when you want to take over a fief.

In my playthrough i avoided vassaling so i could raid a little more freely. Even then, like you , i wondered what is the point? Cutting off a recruitment point and some trade goods which i can easily buy at this point in the game, wasting a few days, and getting the negative relation hit.

I also noticed that when you take over a fief you have raided you will get a negative loyalty hit in the settlement as well.

The biggest benefit was leveling roguery, but i can do that by selling prisoners without any downside.

They need to tweak raiding because the risk reward seems off. It was fun from a roleplaying aspect i guess.

If you raid places with silver ore and raw silk or warhorses, those are probably the best "goods" to get imo.

[Berzerker Jay]

I agree, but even with a small party you're looking at a very minor reward compared to expensive wages, major penalties, and high risk.

I only have a small party of 27, and my wages are about 200 a day. I am absolutely raiding at a major loss, and on top of that I've lost the opportunity to run safe caravans and because of the criminal activity I have less opportunity for workshops. On one raid I conducted (and abandoned because I'd squandered all my money on wages for this paltry loot) I got a whopping few grain and a chunk of iron. I could have bought all that loot from that exact village for about half a day's wages, and I wouldn't need to declare war against a major faction, and I wouldn't lose a whole swath of other gameplay opportunities.

It's so disappointing, because a risky bandit playthrough should be loads of fun, but it's just been unreasonably nerfed.

[METHSTROKE]

I personally wish it were more like bannerlord where until you are vilified and do an insane amount of raiding lords are the only reputation you damage very much. That and it was extremely profitable when you got meat and cattle and killed them all off for thousands

[Arisilde]

I feel like it would improve a bandit playstyle if after a certain level of infamy in a location you would start to be able to recruit troops again press gang style. Like you are just abducting villagers and carting them off to battle.

[Berzerker Jay]

Actually brings me to an idea i've been playing around for actual bounties that spawn 'bandit' type parties under leadership of a randomized NPC. Essentially these would be super-parties of looters or whatever other type of bandit, and some resentful merchant or other notable puts out a bandit on their party, with maybe a bonus for bringing the bounty in alive.

The inverse of this could be that players end up earning bounties on their own heads, and bounty hunter groups start targeting the player as a result.

I think this sort of mechanism could balance out players who get overzealous with banditry, or spice it up, whatever. ;)

[Berzerker Jay]

That said, I still don't feel I've fully considered the idea for bounties, but I'd like to see it fairly different than the similar system for Warband.

It would be rad to see a sort of notable bandit rising to lead a more dynamic party, maybe even ending up with trained cultural troops from raiding activities, but either way being more formidable than normal bandit parties and having an actual NPC leading the party.

[Urmel]

with a great army its not profitable(surprize).
at low clan-lvl with some 20-30 poor fighter it can be profitable. smashing some militia-units is possible...

most people only see the money from raiding, but:
raiding leads to starving and starving leads to rebellion... so u can destroy even the best defended castle/town...

[Bloodwest]

Compared to Warband raiding feels unrewarding for player at least, by the time you've successfully raided a village, owner's faction can easily gather over 1000 army and "offer" you a battle you can't win. And for all the wasted time and risks you get a mere handful of hardwood or something. Keep in mind that whatever you've gained from raid, you should substract value of wages paid, food spent, troops lost, etc. Apparently it's not really profitable for any decent army.

[Dan]

Raiding is a useless option that has way more cons than pros. You get some worthless trade goods, food, etc but you get slapped with a megaton of relation loss with notables and nobles a like. There is literally no point in it that makes you come out on top in any positive light, unless your goal is to just wipe out the world of a particular faction or settlement because you don't give a flying fart.

[Supply Side Jesus]

TW made the few negative actions available to the player - attacking caravans, raiding villages, executing lords to be so detrimental that it is just too risky.

For example, attack and capture caravan in war. Something that AI does ALL THE TIME. You now have a huge reputation penalty in some random city. If years later this ever becomes your faction's city it will be useless for you to recruit, as notables never forget.

Basically, reputation is something that forced on the player, and only player, and it is very obnoxious system.

Proposed fix:

Perk early in the roguery tree that "masked bandits". If you have at least 25% bandit troops in your party then you do not suffer reputation damage from pillaging and attacking caravans.

Another perk: "Den Boss" Hideouts are now are friendly and allow you to recruit goods.

Another perk: "Black market" You can buy goods looters and bandits steal in hideouts.

[Berzerker Jay]

Originally posted by Urmel:

with a great army its not profitable(surprize).
at low clan-lvl with some 20-30 poor fighter it can be profitable. smashing some militia-units is possible...

I mentioned I had a small party of less than 30 troops, and I acknowledged there's some use to it in terms of sieges -- although I actually never really raid as part of any siege campaign, ever -- and I'm trying to talk rationally functioning rather than immersion-breaking gameplay.

If we take on the risk to raid a village, we should presumably get greater rewards than we do attacking a small party of impoverished looters who dreams about the wealth in that village. You get about as much grain from a single party of looters, but then you get other loot as well. The only profitable portion of a raid is to kill its defenders but they really aren't defending anything worth the time of collecting.

I just abandoned yet another bandit character, as that basic profession is not really playable in any of the versions so far. I don't know why you think to dismiss that, but it actually sucks.

[Berzerker Jay]

Seriously, it costs far less to purchase the 'loot' from the village than to invest your party in raiding that village, even without considering the threat of an entire faction declaring war on you for it. Nowadays you have to pay dearly to make peace with that faction, so the 100-200 denars worth of loot from the village is not even a measurable comparison to the consequences.

[Berzerker Jay]

for the record, I expect the reputation loss for it. I have no problem with that, and such consequences even deepen immersion.

One should expect that looting a village with an armed party should net more than a unit of grain a day, though. Somewhat of an exaggeration there, but not really. It takes forever to just get a single trade good that is worth 20 or so denars. Why would anyone even do that, even if there was no reputation penalty? I just gave up playing bandits. It's no fun, and that's the problem really.

Currently the game has one single track to play, and for a sandbox RPG that is not a good thing. I want to be able to dive into this world and play it in different ways. Otherwise it only looks dressed up for replayability. I am basically just rebuilding the same characters over and over again at this point. Love the game, but it's frustrating when greater playability is so close but has just been nerfed out.

[Angelus Mortis]

Peasants were historically poor, so raiding their villages didn't really gain much in terms of material goods. Raiding is more about interrupting the economy and striking fear in your enemy, not getting a bunch of money of it.

The issue with raiding in the game is that it doesn't have its historically relevant gains from it. The economy is affected, but the will to fight is not making it not that useful to the player.

[Angelus Mortis]

Originally posted by Berzerker Jay:

for the record, I expect the reputation loss for it. I have no problem with that, and such consequences even deepen immersion.

One should expect that looting a village with an armed party should net more than a unit of grain a day, though. Somewhat of an exaggeration there, but not really. It takes forever to just get a single trade good that is worth 20 or so denars. Why would anyone even do that, even if there was no reputation penalty? I just gave up playing bandits. It's no fun, and that's the problem really.

Currently the game has one single track to play, and for a sandbox RPG that is not a good thing. I want to be able to dive into this world and play it in different ways. Otherwise it only looks dressed up for replayability. I am basically just rebuilding the same characters over and over again at this point. Love the game, but it's frustrating when greater playability is so close but has just been nerfed out.

That's because it's not really a sandbox game. Everything is built around being a vassal and then a ruler. The devs have taken zero effort in opening up the game to other choices like playing as a bandit.

For that matter, raiding a village as a bandit is bit stupid in the first place. Bandits should rely on blackmail and kidnapping, not raiding.