Mount & Blade II: Bannerlord

Mount & Blade II: Bannerlord

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Impetum7 Feb 7, 2021 @ 1:19am
Please, fix respawning in battles!
I really really really hate big battles in this game.

I have bigger army than enemy, like 2:1, but because they are sitting in their corner and I have to come for them, their forces are respawning right next to me, but my soldiers must go across entire map. And you can really tell when respawning is occurring, in that moment, my casualties are suddenly growing and growing.

Why are respawning places fixed? Wouldn't it be more fair if they were dynamic and were changing based on position of my (and enemy) troops?

Bigger battle size makes it better, but now you removed slider from options and there are only set values, where 600 is too low for me and 1000 is too much, since my computer is not handling it very well.

So, please, pretty please, do something about it.
Last edited by Impetum7; Feb 7, 2021 @ 1:22am
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Showing 1-15 of 38 comments
Khamal Feb 7, 2021 @ 1:34am 
Unless it broke in new version, on my 1.55 all I have to do is part a section of my army, say cav for instance
Inch up to them until they press attack, than ever so slowly, pull back and back, find a line where some are attacking and some are going back, from there simply move your army behind that line, and done or keep inching back(should keep the respawns aggro) does for me anyhow
(but yes, it is annoying,very lol)
Not sure if thiscounts too anymore, but killing their lord should aggro them too(no leader)
Last edited by Khamal; Feb 7, 2021 @ 1:44am
Urmel Feb 7, 2021 @ 2:51am 
i always have a party with half range-units like bow.
so you can hit the enemys in the middle of the map and force them to attack you.

when they reach you, their morale is broken and respown is no problem in this situation. in viking dlc from warband their was a game-option at gamestart:

on/off: force enemy to attack

cawse this option isnt in bannerlord you could slightly reduce the difficultie of the game or increase max units to 600 or 1000 on the map.
Impetum7 Feb 7, 2021 @ 3:41am 
Originally posted by Khamal:
Unless it broke in new version, on my 1.55 all I have to do is part a section of my army, say cav for instance
Inch up to them until they press attack, than ever so slowly, pull back and back, find a line where some are attacking and some are going back, from there simply move your army behind that line, and done or keep inching back(should keep the respawns aggro) does for me anyhow
(but yes, it is annoying,very lol)
Not sure if thiscounts too anymore, but killing their lord should aggro them too(no leader)
Yeah, I've been trying to do something like that, it seems it's possible, but not the way I would like to play it.

Originally posted by Urmel:
i always have a party with half range-units like bow.
so you can hit the enemys in the middle of the map and force them to attack you.

when they reach you, their morale is broken and respown is no problem in this situation. in viking dlc from warband their was a game-option at gamestart:

on/off: force enemy to attack

cawse this option isnt in bannerlord you could slightly reduce the difficultie of the game or increase max units to 600 or 1000 on the map.
You can't really control what kind of units you have if you are in army. I also like to have high number of range units in my party. Lowering difficulty is something I did few times. I like playing on realistic, but outcome of these battles would not be so realistic otherwise. But again, not the way I would like to play it. It feels like I'm cheating.
Last edited by Impetum7; Feb 7, 2021 @ 3:43am
Thank you for sharing your feedback and suggestions! They have been noted and forwarded to the development team.
Reef Feb 7, 2021 @ 5:23am 
i had one battle before last patch so not sure if it still does it, but the enemy cav was spawning on my flank nowhere near their side of the map. i went to chase down a few cav behind this big rock and a dozen spawned right in front of me
Yes. AI turtling is very frustrating. I can't easily sacrifice my army, cuz my recruitment is real and slow and AI recruitment is fast and cheating.
Urmel Feb 7, 2021 @ 5:43am 
Originally posted by Monsieur Tourette:
Yes. AI turtling is very frustrating. I can't easily sacrifice my army, cuz my recruitment is real and slow and AI recruitment is fast and cheating.

only fight when u are sure to win. if not simple run away...

and you can join the "strong/winning team". if your kingdom is loosing every battle/castle/town then leave them and look for other factions.

as merc u can easy always change the faction thet gives good money with low risk.
Raggy Feb 7, 2021 @ 7:29am 
I think that is fair though since the ai will hunker down if they are defending. I think what you should do is thinking your strat to counter this game mechanics since its already fair.

One way to do it is to brought in sufficient ammount of range unit. If you win in the initial skirmish they will rush to you, second, you can gradually fall back either to the middle or if possible even to your starting position
Chaotic Entropy Feb 7, 2021 @ 7:44am 
If nothing else, the AI shouldn't be being instructed to just sit on top of their spawn point.
jjwalker Feb 7, 2021 @ 8:00am 
Originally posted by Chaotic Entropy:
If nothing else, the AI shouldn't be being instructed to just sit on top of their spawn point.

They tend to, for me at least even in 1.5.8 is go straight into circle formation right on top of the spawn point. My personal fix for this is to move my troops to a higher elevation if possible, and arrow them to hell from the side. I basically move my army off to the side of the battle map right off the bat and then advance and stop once I am within good arrow range and pelt them until they are forced to go on the offensive.

Their cavalry spawning behind rocks and ♥♥♥♥ way off to the side is a new 1.5.8 feature and is janky. Instant flank (not that I haven't been able to deal with it).
Morkonan Feb 7, 2021 @ 8:52am 
Originally posted by Impetum7:
...
Why are respawning places fixed? Wouldn't it be more fair if they were dynamic and were changing based on position of my (and enemy) troops?
...

You want the enemy reinforcements, spawning in because you're killing them, to change based on what is convenient for you?

I think you need to reassess that notion - YOU get the same "defender advantage" if you are attacked by a larger force and decide to hold a defensive position that's advantageous for you.

In general, the enemy AI will react to the terrain, seeking a defensive advantage by moving to higher terrain if it's present/possible. If not, they will sometimes "just sit there" near their spawn point. The map makes a big difference in where the enemy chooses to defend if they move from their initial spawn node.

IMO, in cases where the enemy forms up and doesn't move at all from its spawn-in position, it's probably... just not "AI." The solution? It's not forcing TW to add "dynamic spawn nodes" to maps, which I think they'd do right after they'd decide to burn down their own offices... Instead, the solution is a better AI that chooses a reasonable spot to defend.

In Warband, just like in Bannerlord, the Defender gets a slight advantage in that they don't stray far from their reinforcement point. Most of what an attack will encounter spawning from those nodes, though, are going to be lower-tier units.

In Warband, just like in Bannerlord, you have to pay a little bit of attention to that and realize the danger when you over-extend or fail to properly command your own forces. Do not over-extend your forces and allow them to become so disorganized when fighting a clearly outmatched enemy that random reinforcement spawn costs you significant losses...

Why this is going to be "forwarded to the development team" is a complete mystery to me.
Cass Feb 7, 2021 @ 8:52am 
Don't be afraid to abuse the "retreat" mechanic when it comes to it. Regrouping and re-engaging is how it would happen in reality. So do it. tab, "retreat".
The current system is silly as you note.

units trickle in 10-20 at a time... popping into existence either on top of you, out of formation, behind your lines.. or way back on the other side of the field, and run up 1 at time..

So when, it starts to happen, retreat. then reattack, so your units are in proper formations.
you can do this IN map as well. just periodically calling your units back, so they don't overextend. but there's limits to that. As, it doesn't allow logical regrouping, rearmament, or retreat of wounded troops.
Cass Feb 7, 2021 @ 9:03am 
Originally posted by Morkonan:
Why this is going to be "forwarded to the development team" is a complete mystery to me.
Because the current system is really dumb? units magically spawn 50meters into the map out of thin air. This can occur right on top of your units, or behind them.
And they do so randomly at the update ticks. no organization of which units.

if I had 200 men fighting, and 1000 men in reserve.. for.. reasons.. and I lost 50 infantry, and needed to call in reenforcements.. Im going to call in a formation of 50 infantry at once.
I am not going to call in 5 infantry, 2 archers, 4 cavalry, 2 skirmisher. Each who will spawn in their original formations starting locations, then run into the current formations ordered position..

How it should work.
Re-reinforcements should not spawn in automatically at all. you should have to specifically call for them. Ideally, you should be able to select who comes in. When they do spawn, they should spawn out of bounds, then come running into the map.

This way, they never spawn on you, behind you, or behind the enemy. and, they don't trickle in 1 at a time, while fighting. you can expressly pull back, regroup, and call them in.
(should have resupply camps at the spawn locations well, for rearming arrows, etc. maybe even horses.) AND, along with "re-enforce", a "withdrawn wounded" command, to tell units with 50% or less HP to withdraw from combat. (if bolt/arrow baskets not added, possibly a "withdraw empty archer" command as well, to tell archers out of arrows, to withdraw safely. instead of taking up a unit cap spot, and being useless.
Stevie Lee Feb 7, 2021 @ 9:16am 
Originally posted by Raggy:
I think that is fair though since the ai will hunker down if they are defending. I think what you should do is thinking your strat to counter this game mechanics since its already fair.

One way to do it is to brought in sufficient ammount of range unit. If you win in the initial skirmish they will rush to you, second, you can gradually fall back either to the middle or if possible even to your starting position
You just need a handful of decent ranged units who can run fast (forest bandits) or companions. Bring 10 of them up front with you; once you kill a few dozen enemy they will advance then tell them to cease fire and run back to skirmish line with you.
Morkonan Feb 7, 2021 @ 9:47am 
Originally posted by Cass:
Originally posted by Morkonan:
Why this is going to be "forwarded to the development team" is a complete mystery to me.
Because the current system is really dumb? units magically spawn 50meters into the map out of thin air. This can occur right on top of your units, or behind them.
And they do so randomly at the update ticks. no organization of which units.

This is known. It is the same mechanic that was in Warband. They occur at a known "spawn node" which are placed on the map. When they are spawning in at slightly different positions, it's likely because they're different base-unit types and have different spawn nodes.

if I had 200 men fighting, and 1000 men in reserve.. for.. reasons.. and I lost 50 infantry, and needed to call in reenforcements.. Im going to call in a formation of 50 infantry at once.
I am not going to call in 5 infantry, 2 archers, 4 cavalry, 2 skirmisher. Each who will spawn in their original formations starting locations, then run into the current formations ordered position..

Your OP was directed to the issue of you losing units due to reinforcement waves. That's what I was originally addressing.

How it should work.

It's not quite a "wargame." You're describing mechanics that would need an increasing amount of player attention to affect. When would you call for those reinforcements? Is your eye just always glued to the combat ratio for the battle? What happens if you are confident in your army's current capabilities, unsupervised, and want to go chop up some enemies? You won't get any reinforcements in that case if you start "playing the game"... You'll have to stop and "choose reinforcements" and hit a "Gimme" button.

When managing a battle takes you too far "out of a battle" then it's not going to be a well-liked mechanic for players who like... battles. (IMO)

This way, they never spawn on you, behind you, or behind the enemy.

They're going to spawn-in at the same general location. (Exceptions for their individual unit-type spawn node on the particular map.) You can use that knowledge to your advantage, too.

...to tell archers out of arrows, to withdraw safely. instead of taking up a unit cap spot, and being useless.

The "traditional method" here is pretty simple - Rely on your medical capabilities and just order your archers to "charge" when they're out of ammo. It's more effective in Sieges, traditionally, than in a Field Battle. (In field battles, if I'm desperate and out of ammo, which is rare, I'll use them like withdrawn "Skirmishers" behind the lines to overwhelm the occasional rider/unit that breaks through. Then, I'll send them back to their positions. Because they will not arm their primary weapon when it's out of ammo, those archers act like melee-defenders for their brethren.)

I think some of your suggestions are a bit "too busy" for the sort of gameplay people would actually enjoy in Bannerlord. I am not against improvements to any portion of the game and I do understand how you'd want to see those sorts of improvements. But... that's a lot of micromanaging of a system that is designed to make things simpler when the situation is dire.

Why? If you're relying on reinforcement waves, your situation is desperate. You'd likely benefit a bit more by focusing your efforts on the battle at hand instead of trying to decide what reinforcement units you want at any one time and keeping up with unit ratios to know when you can do that... all while your more immediate capabilities are rapidly being depleted. If you weren't in this situation, you wouldn't have a great need to tailor your reinforcement spawn. And, if you're forced to tailor your reinforcement spawn on the fly, you can't fully devote yourself to fighting the battle in front of you. See?

I think the notion on reinforcements is to keep the initial composition of the forces you've set up/gathered more-or-less the same. I don't know that for sure as I don't know what the code says... But, IF there was any code there to govern reinforcements, I'd imagine they'd try to use that in that way.

There could be a solution in your own Order of Battle, specifically the "order" of your troops in your Party. Current reinforcement behavior might already be weighted like that. (There have sadly only been a very few battles I can think of where my own reinforcement waves mattered at all.)

Note: In Warband, large battles could occur in Phases. Basically, you'd fight this big battle until a bunch of units and reinforcements were expended, then things would reset and you'd get another "round" of battle. IIRC, three of these rounds/phases were possible in very, very, large engagements. Bannerlord doesn't have that kind of mechanic, so it's got to rely on reinforcement waves being more-or-less continuous if the "Strength in Numbers" maxim is going to be effective at all.
Last edited by Morkonan; Feb 7, 2021 @ 9:47am
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Date Posted: Feb 7, 2021 @ 1:19am
Posts: 38