Bannerlords Late game is atrocious; its easier to conquer cities than to convince someone to join you

[No I think Not]

So, to get straight to the point without going into to much ranting, the late game of bannerlord is really bad, not because of the threats you can face but due to the horrid limitations placed upon you. To start off with, its almost nigh impossible to convince other lords to join up with you. Not only do you need to get lucky with the hardest charm minigame present in the game itself, but you must then practically bribe them with practically the entire GDP of a nation and it still might not be enough, apprently 400k isnt sufficient enough. Of course, theorectially I can give them fiefs, but thats locked behind the find perk in the trade line, meaning your FORCED to play as a trader in order to accomplish anything. Perhaps maybe mercenaries might be the key, only, recruiting them is downright impossible as you need to chase thier leader across the campaign map, and when you do catch them you then need to be able to foot the bill, which is rather difficult unless you have a REALLY solid income base, and even then, good luck being able to field them in the early game.

Going independant on its own is hard enough as a small fish among megalodons, but being forced to throw all of the money I spent years building up to just barely be able to recruit ONE family makes building a nation less of a process and more just a "throw enough money at it to win". Especially since the AI suffers from none of these problems, they can hire mercanaries whenever they feel like it, lords will line up to defect to them if thier own faction is collapsing, and they can do whatever they please without any consequences. I know that its possible to disregard everything Ive said above and still conquer the map, however "possible" does not mean "probable" and further more niether mean "practical". By no means should it be easy to go independent, but it should be more viable considering its the mainstay final objective of the series.

[Antiga]

Sort of true. But a lot of concessions were made already in comparison to the previous games, in order to appeal to a larger audience. The amount of effort some nobody needs to go through in order to become a KING, in Bannerlord, is somewhat minimal. Warband was more eager to see you roam around for years, be a vassal and etc, rather than with starting off with making your own kingdom. (As many people do in Bannerlord.)

So while you're right, keep in mind this isn't a game of a regular scale. M&B playthroughs have always been in the hundreds or thousands of hours.

Really, it shouldn't be expected one can start a kingdom with a few hundred K. Many people try to start one with less than 100k. To them, (And perhaps you?) I say, get real with your expectations.

Whatever way you wanna see it, you will need to prepare properly. And don't forget, "throw enough money at it to win" is the most important and real life lesson you can learn here. As there isn't a truth that is more true in this current age and world.

[No I think Not]

Originally posted by Antiga:

Sort of true. But a lot of concessions were made already in comparison to the previous games, in order to appeal to a larger audience. The amount of effort some nobody needs to go through in order to become a KING, in Bannerlord, is somewhat minimal. Warband was more eager to see you roam around for years, be a vassal and etc, rather than with starting off with making your own kingdom. (As many people do in Bannerlord.)

So while you're right, keep in mind this isn't a game of a regular scale. M&B playthroughs have always been in the hundreds or thousands of hours.

Really, it shouldn't be expected one can start a kingdom with a few hundred K. Many people try to start one with less than 100k. To them, (And perhaps you?) I say, get real with your expectations.

Whatever way you wanna see it, you will need to prepare properly. And don't forget, "throw enough money at it to win" is the most important and real life lesson you can learn here. As there isn't a truth that is more true in this current age and world.

Perhaps I should explain my current games position in order to properly convey the problem, I play on realistic difficulty, I am at day 600, roughly around the same day as I started a kingdom in M&B warband. I have 253 troops, most of which are fully upgraded, and Im at tier 5 clan renown. Im married, and have around 400k gold in total, and some of the bests armor in the game (imperial scale). I was able to conquer two cities through a combination of luck and strategy. This isnt my first game Ive played to this point, but I though I could do something different this time. Of course I was wrong as I immediatly ran into the paywall that is recruiting lords.

Part of the point I think is being lost here is something I havnt really highlighted, to put it simply, the reason Im at this point is because I traded and smithed to get my money up that high. In bannerlord, unless you trade, your not gonna be able to make money very quickly. Forcing the player to play a specific way in order to have any chance to do anything. That at the very least warrrents criticism, good luck ever playin a bandit playthrough (without mods).

Also I disagree that becoming a king in bannerlord is easier then warband, Ive played through warband and there I actualy have a kingdom, with actual lords. It was rough gettin started because I didnt have alot of troops and I was attacked 20/4/7 by my neighbors but I managed because I could actually get people on my side. I didnt have to pay the domestic GDP to bribe people to my side, they wanted to join up with me because I was a new chance. After recruiting them of course I needed to get them land, which prompted me to expand, which I could do more feasibly at this point now that I had actual troops.
The requirements to become a king in bannerlord are higher then in warband, all you needed to do in warband was conquer a castle/city after raising your renown and getting a half decent amount of money.

Look, Im not asking for it to be a cakewalk, but at the very least let me give them fiefs to recruit them without the stupid max level trade perk. To boot, maybe the cost of bribing them could be lowered down to a more reasonable amount so Im not spending the entire GDP of all the kingdoms combined just be able to progress at this point.

[Shelcko]

Charm is your best asset.

[Tempered]

So right now in 1.5.8 I'm sitting in Macalovea castle with my wife and 3 kids. I'm basically a bandit lord, owing allegiance to no one. I've never blacksmithed or traded, but have won battles and sold prisoners and loot to make the 250k I have sitting in the bank.
War is the only income that matters at the moment. I have to attack lords of weak factions in order to keep a steady stream of money coming in to feed my 200 man army of professional troops.
I have yet to declare my own kingdom because that would be suicide. I have to bide my time and wait to build up my castle, give my kids time to grow up for the coming battles and stash as much money and gear as possible.
When the time is right, I will take a weakened city, declare my kingdom, hire a few mercenary companies and start steam rolling a weak country. If I can not do this in my life time, then one of my children will have to take over and complete what I started.

[Core]

Regardless of the rationalization or the gamification purposes behind it, x million golds for a clan to join is a ridicilous number and can not be justified.
Maybe they could add RightToRule/RightToExpand back again, to be bound to something like [Heirs+Clan Tier+Spouse Clan Tier+Relationship Rating+(Leadership-300)+(Steward-300)+(Charm-300)+(Roguery-300)]-(Number of Clans Employed+Number of Settlements Controlled)

[Tempered]

Originally posted by Core:

Regardless of the rationalization or the gamification purposes behind it, x million golds for a clan to join is a ridicilous number and can not be justified.
Maybe they could add RightToRule/RightToExpand back again, to be bound to something like [Heirs+Clan Tier+Spouse Clan Tier+Relationship Rating+(Leadership-300)+(Steward-300)+(Charm-300)+(Roguery-300)]-(Number of Clans Employed+Number of Settlements Controlled)

I agree. I don't think they should remove negotiations completely, but the starting point of the negotiations should be something reasonable based on the current world situation, including relations between lords. Some lords should just show up at your door and pay you to join, while others should never join if you've pissed them off enough. The dialogue should indicate that they will never join instead of putting up some million dollar price to join.
Offering castles or towns should absolutely be part of the negotiations regardless of your trade skill. The current way that castles and cities are doled out is pathetic.

[Sir_Blaze]

i had read threads before on how much it costs to get lords over to yourside, and the first lord i tried to have such a discussion my 1/2 million in the bank said that wasn't enough, and then a thought occured to me and i looked and he had 2 fifes of his own already and towns at that, so i looked up the lords of my culture whom i had good relations with and 0 feifs, ( not that many it turned out) but he also happened to be my father in law ( not sure if that had any impact on the proceedings ) so this lord already had about a +47 opinion of me and 0 fiefs under his control ( i did have about 10 at the time) and asked him to join me . . . . and man was i shocked at how much i saved . . . . it was 50 k ok a little over 51 k but damn also the checks were all 76%+ to make with him so wasn't actually too hard to get him onside, of course the 2nd and 3nd lords i tried to aquire had a 56% like for me and my charm was a bit higher too but they had a feif under their names, a simple little castle, bam he wanted over million to turn even though all his checks were 81%+, so i wonder if them owning property increases the price significantly, of course there are only 2 lords of the empire culture without land currently but they dislike me so much that their checks are at like 15% max

so it maybe that if you're gonig for a landed lord you'll not be able to turn them for cheap, as they're giving up their holdings to come over to you without the trade perk

[BigTricky]

I get a bit bored late game, becomes very easy, my cash flow becomes a runnaway,I can defeat armies 4 times my size.

[Sir_Blaze]

@bigtricky yeah is soon as i hit 100 troops i seem to be able to deal with 3-1 odds without many losses

[Ruffio]

If you try top convince lords that already got lands/fifes to join you it's hard and will cost a lot. If you try convince a unlanded lord, and you are stronger than his liege, there is a good chance you succeed to have him join at a low cost..

[No I think Not]

Originally posted by Core:

Regardless of the rationalization or the gamification purposes behind it, x million golds for a clan to join is a ridicilous number and can not be justified.
Maybe they could add RightToRule/RightToExpand back again, to be bound to something like [Heirs+Clan Tier+Spouse Clan Tier+Relationship Rating+(Leadership-300)+(Steward-300)+(Charm-300)+(Roguery-300)]-(Number of Clans Employed+Number of Settlements Controlled)

Now that sounds like a good idea, perhaps with certain skills being more effective towards certain lord types, such as roguery being more effective at recruiting devious/cruel lords, ect ect. Would make things more nuanced at least.

[Rovalis]

Money is acquired so easily in this game I wonder why anyone complains about the cost. Smithing, Trading, all of the war-time options like selling loot from high-tier battles or pillaging villages and ransoming high value prisoners... If you can defeat armies triple your size then you should be raking in ridiculous amounts of money.

Don't buy any lord you can find for millions. That money is better spent stacking garrisons and investing in more money-making. You can find lords that are significantly cheaper depending on the state of your game. Keep your relations high. Don't make a habit of taking quests and abandoning them - especially from nobles.

The game isn't designed to specifically cater to building a kingdom. If you're having trouble doing it then you probably just didn't look before leaping and found yourself sinking because you didn't take the time to learn to swim. Give yourself more time as a merc or vassal, spend more time building high relations, and stack your income. Not your bank. Your savings is useless beyond paying for immediate expenses such as food and wages. Your income is what will propel you into the end game.

[𝔗𝔢𝔞 ❀]

Originally posted by No I think Not:

So, to get straight to the point without going into to much ranting, the late game of bannerlord is really bad, not because of the threats you can face but due to the horrid limitations placed upon you. To start off with, its almost nigh impossible to convince other lords to join up with you. Not only do you need to get lucky with the hardest charm minigame present in the game itself, but you must then practically bribe them with practically the entire GDP of a nation and it still might not be enough, apprently 400k isnt sufficient enough. Of course, theorectially I can give them fiefs, but thats locked behind the find perk in the trade line, meaning your FORCED to play as a trader in order to accomplish anything. Perhaps maybe mercenaries might be the key, only, recruiting them is downright impossible as you need to chase thier leader across the campaign map, and when you do catch them you then need to be able to foot the bill, which is rather difficult unless you have a REALLY solid income base, and even then, good luck being able to field them in the early game.

Going independant on its own is hard enough as a small fish among megalodons, but being forced to throw all of the money I spent years building up to just barely be able to recruit ONE family makes building a nation less of a process and more just a "throw enough money at it to win". Especially since the AI suffers from none of these problems, they can hire mercanaries whenever they feel like it, lords will line up to defect to them if thier own faction is collapsing, and they can do whatever they please without any consequences. I know that its possible to disregard everything Ive said above and still conquer the map, however "possible" does not mean "probable" and further more niether mean "practical". By no means should it be easy to go independent, but it should be more viable considering its the mainstay final objective of the series.

What's your charm?

I made a charm focused character, and he is at 125 now. Never had it this high before.

If your character isn't charming, you cannot really expect to charm Lords.

[𝔗𝔢𝔞 ❀]

Originally posted by Rovalis:

Money is acquired so easily in this game I wonder why anyone complains about the cost. Smithing, Trading, all of the war-time options like selling loot from high-tier battles or pillaging villages and ransoming high value prisoners... If you can defeat armies triple your size then you should be raking in ridiculous amounts of money.

Don't buy any lord you can find for millions. That money is better spent stacking garrisons and investing in more money-making. You can find lords that are significantly cheaper depending on the state of your game. Keep your relations high. Don't make a habit of taking quests and abandoning them - especially from nobles.

The game isn't designed to specifically cater to building a kingdom. If you're having trouble doing it then you probably just didn't look before leaping and found yourself sinking because you didn't take the time to learn to swim. Give yourself more time as a merc or vassal, spend more time building high relations, and stack your income. Not your bank. Your savings is useless beyond paying for immediate expenses such as food and wages. Your income is what will propel you into the end game.

Yeah, also quite funny where if you pick on certain types of bandits early on, you can get ridiculously expensive bows as drops. Easy to make money, and you can have gear you cannot even sell at full price without going to a new town.

Good advice.

[No I think Not]

Originally posted by 𝔗𝔢𝔞 ❀:

What's your charm?

I made a charm focused character, and he is at 125 now. Never had it this high before.

If your character isn't charming, you cannot really expect to charm Lords.

As of right now its roughly at 100, also Ive just found out that the recruit price is heavily tied to the clans opinion of you, I beat up a entire clan then released them all jacking up thier opinion to 40-45, the price to recruit them dropped down from around 1mil to like 170k. Its still really janky though, and its not exactly practical as it means you have to go to war with whichever faction has the clan you want.