Rocks are Stupid

[Saievo]

Rock-throwing Bandits are incredibly lame. Probably one of the worst implemented ideas in any game I've ever played. Slings would be awesome and were actually used for more than a millennium in organized battles. I would like to see the person fired who thought to themselves, "Hey, bandits can't really hurt characters on horseback...that feels imbalanced. I know, let's have them throw rocks at extreme range and do so with better accuracy than Tom Brady!" F-ing wanker. Just use slings for pete-sake! Make it so, Number Two. Engage!

[Morkonan]

I do agree that slings would be more appropriate.

But, I have honestly never had the issues that many players complain about, here. I "get it." I do. I can see how a player could fall to these... angry hobos.

For myself, I do remember saying "WTF" in my first encounter with them. Yup, pretty tough. But, that's because I was still playing "Warband" in my head and not "Bannerlord." I adjusted and killed the group of 10/12 and then approached them with an entirely different attitude from then on. Yes, it took friggin' forever for my no-name Day 1 character to kill them. But, I did it.

The issue really is that that starting "horse" is barely a "horse." It's kind of a wannebe-horse... It's probably some geriatric plow-horse. It's speed, acceleration, and maneuverability means that it's probably going to get the player into more trouble than the player, themselves.

Note: The mechanics are similar to Warband in that the bandits will switch between ranged and melee weapon behavior at a certain range. This takes them a tiny bit of time to do. The key to easily surviving such encounters for the Day 1 character is to find the sweet spot and maneuver to move in/out of that range in order to create opportunities to jab them with your spear and get away. Rinse/Repeat (Outranging them with archers while baiting them, yourself, is a good tactic as well. Recruit melee don't do well unless they have a shield.)

[allan]

20 rock throwing bandits killed 2 heavy armed troopers out 96 cav ..why because the cav were all clumped up on a battlefield full of close fitting tree.
morons who think its clever to fill a battlefield full of trees/big rocks/cliffs/dips in the ground...( stop prating around with the batlefield) thats not improvement its people programers who have sod all else to do there..
and dont get me started on the ladders and towers where they all mill about at the bottom

[flak509]

I agree, the sling is terribly under used in games, but then the spear still doesne work so you know

[Preacher]

Originally posted by allan:

20 rock throwing bandits killed 2 heavy armed troopers out 96 cav ..why because the cav were all clumped up on a battlefield full of close fitting tree.
morons who think its clever to fill a battlefield full of trees/big rocks/cliffs/dips in the ground...( stop prating around with the batlefield) thats not improvement its people programers who have sod all else to do there..
and dont get me started on the ladders and towers where they all mill about at the bottom

so would you rather every battlefield be a flat plain?

[Solvem Probler]

The problem isn't so much the rocks, it's how blunt damage and armor works (or does not work, in the case of armor).

[Zoli]

One of my disappointments with BL is the lack of slings. :(

[Asphe]

Slings take quite a bit of skill to employ effectively. More so than bows to the point that you'd expect 'simple' bandits to employ nothing more than than thrown spears and rocks. Meeting Robin 'ood and Co would be like getting robbed on the highway by Barrett toting gangbangers. Belongs in movies.

Also if folks think thrown rocks shouldn't 'hurt' that much, there is a reason 'stoned to death' was an execution method and well thrown softball will hurt quite a bit. A proper baseball can crack your jaw. And those are 'toys'.

Seriously, learning to use a bow is mainly getting in shape to draw the bow and aim it properly. Go stick your mouse in your sock and swing it as hard as you can... now see if you can hit a door-sized target from 10m away. Let alone stuff like stick-slings / staff-slings. David nailing Goliath with a stone to the head... would make him the Gunny Hathcock of his day.

Still, it's a game so...

-----

Originally posted by Zoli:

One of my disappointments with BL is the lack of slings. :(

That said... there is a mod for this at nexus ^_^. And unlike the Warband version... you get a cross-hair and it's basically a crossbow in terms of use. The Warband version IIRC had you time your release to fire, much like the real thing.

Another mod gives you actual troop trees for this. (1.3 broke this though)

[Natasha]

Rock throwing was widely used in this time period especially in europe, and yes they hurt. Someone who practiced could also be precise. Slings are not easy to hit with and you needed a sling for it, rocks require nothing other than rocks so it was more popular to just pick them up and throw.

There's nothing lame about it.

[Clovis Sangrail]

Move along, folks. Move along.

Nothing to see here except that same tired old gripe about looters' rocks.

[Morkonan]

Originally posted by Asphe:

...
Seriously, learning to use a bow is mainly getting in shape to draw the bow and aim it properly. Go stick your mouse in your sock and swing it as hard as you can... now see if you can hit a door-sized target from 10m away. Let alone stuff like stick-slings / staff-slings. David nailing Goliath with a stone to the head... would make him the Gunny Hathcock of his day.

Still, it's a game so...
...

Slings are easily crafted, making them widely available and commonplace. That means... a lot of people learned how to use them simply because, well, if it's sitting right there what the heck else are you going to so while watching your sheep poop in a field?

The hoards of personalized slingstones found on ancient battlefields is a testament to their use and their effectiveness. Soldiers don't use stuff that doesn't work...

BUT, that "work" they can do effectively does sort of drop in effectiveness when facing new defenses, like "armor" and "beeg fewkin sheeelds." And, using a traditional sling means the user isn't going to be heavily armored or carrying a lot of other weapons. I imagine as bows became more common/allowed and even mass-produced, alongside the mass-production of arrows, the value there easily outshown the common sling. (Even if slingshot/bullets were sometimes also mass-produced.)

Note: A traditional sling isn't really that difficult to use, especially if one just mucks around with it every day for a bit while waiting for sheep to finish pooping. I played with one a bit way-back-when and while I definitely was in the "you suck" category of skill, I could at least make a rock go in the right direction. :) (The secret is to not swing it around so it doesn't hit you in your face... Pro-tip, yw.... :))

Love me some ancient graffiti - https://www.ancient-origins.net/history/messages-missiles-here-sugar-plum-you-003708

On "Sling-Staffs" - Dunno if anyone ever actually used such a thing. I guess they traveled forward in time, read up on "Kender", went back and tried to use a sling-staff in battle and died... and that, was that. :)

Spear-throwing: No self-respecting spear owner is going to throw their weapon away in the middle of a battle. Javelins and the like? Yes. "Spears?" No. I guess, in a dire moment where combat is turning bad, they might throw it at somebody, drawing their side-arm after. but, if it doesn't kill or break, it's just giving weapons away to the enemy. Certainly, some "spears" may have been designed to be thrown and could be regarded as heavier than their contemporary javelin. But, that's not really the sort of spear we see in the game else they'd have a "thrown weapon" designation.

[Clovis Sangrail]

If they add slings and sling staffs, then they should add halflings, too.

[Starwight/ttv]

The amount of absolute entitlement, absolute ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥ expectations, and ridiculousness of the claims/ranting here is unreal.

Rocks are only an issue when you first start out. I can literally clean house vs bandits with my army, as long as I actually do more than just press F1+F3. Maybe try actually thinking instead of blindly raving and blaming the game, because *you* need to "git gud."

Set up your infantry to shield wall. Have them close the distance. Send your cav, if you have them, to attack from the flank. Get your archers some good good ground so they can meet stone with arrow.

And if you are just simulating every bandit battle...well....that is a you problem. Maybe you need to invest in the perks that make those simulated battles more on the player side.

The bandits and rocks are not an issue for experienced players.

[Starwight/ttv]

Originally posted by Sheepify:

Originally posted by Starwight/ttv:

The amount of absolute entitlement, absolute ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥ expectations, and ridiculousness of the claims/ranting here is unreal.

Why yes, dark-age armies frequently threw rocks at each other because they are such an effective weapons /s

Originally posted by Starwight/ttv:

Rocks are only an issue when you first start out.
[..]
The bandits and rocks are not an issue for experienced players.

They aren't an issue for experienced players even when you start.

They do overperform, significantly, because of how blunt damage and armor values are implemented.

Rocks should not do more damage that an arrow shot by anything but a makeshift "tie a string to a branch" "bow," yet they do - particularly against high value armor. And it's not even the damage itself that's the most problematic of it, but the stagger that comes with it.

It's not the worst or most pressing issue in Placeholderlord, but an issue none the less. And it's an issue that will affect an early party because unless you spend several minutes babysitting your forces for every bandit pinata encounter, you'll get troops knocked out simply because of how well (and "unrealistic") rocks perform, compared even to actual melee weapons.

I was trying to give some sort of leeway, that maybe a new player first starting would have problems, but once you learn how to deal with them, you shouldn't really have any issues lol

[Starwight/ttv]

Originally posted by Sheepify:

Originally posted by Starwight/ttv:

I was trying to give some sort of leeway, that maybe a new player first starting would have problems, but once you learn how to deal with them, you shouldn't really have any issues lol

Troops under your command? They'll absolutely still do, unless you drag out every. single. looter. battle just setting up proper commands and approaching carefully.

If you don't want to play the game as it was intended, by actually using battle commands, setting up formations, and actually...well, commanding...then why are you playing Bannerlord?