Is smithing cheating?

[Lavstrasni]

Everyone knows smithing is the most overpowered way of getting money. And it kind of feels like cheating, would you get 50k denars from a sword in the actual medival world?

[Oni]

Just because it's singleplayer doesn't mean you can't cheat, cheats were being used in games long before multiplayer was even invented. Whether or not using an incomplete or broken mechanic to your advantage qualifies as cheating or not is debatable, but smithing is damn sure not perfect at any rate.

[Clovis Sangrail]

Publicado originalmente por Bergara:

Y'all remind me of those people that clog up the left lane intentionally to force people behind them to do the speed limit.

Bingo. Dead on. Well said.

[Memtndude]

I would probably consider it cheating more if all of the game mechanics worked properly. The economy needs work, especially in the workshop owning/caravan area. For instance, you still don't get trade XP for owning caravans like the tip says when you go to Trade. So until things like that are fixed, I don't feel bad for using another system that isn't necessarily working as intended.

[fakemon64]

if it feels like cheating, it probably is...

...but in the end, to each his own. if doing it makes you feel dirty, then dont. otherwise, have fun

[cwhitney]

Not to be a "Well, actually...." (who the hell am I kidding?) it's not a cheat. It's an exploit. The cheat is the console command that gives you money or items. An exploit is taking advantage of something within the game that the gamemaker did not intend. I suspect that they did not intend for crafted weapons to be so profitable, so hammering it is an exploit.

But who cares. Do what you want.

[Bergara]

Publicado originalmente por Oni:

Just because it's singleplayer doesn't mean you can't cheat, cheats were being used in games long before multiplayer was even invented. Whether or not using an incomplete or broken mechanic to your advantage qualifies as cheating or not is debatable, but smithing is damn sure not perfect at any rate.

It's not debatable. There is no subterfuge, deceit, or victim.

[Oni]

It is debatable, because you're still cheating the game itself. You don't need to be deceiving a victim to cheat something. Like cheating on a test for example. As long as you're using unintended shortcuts or exploits to gain an advantage it can qualify as cheating.

The official definition;
1. act dishonestly or unfairly in order to gain an advantage, especially in a game or examination.
2. avoid (something undesirable) by luck or skill.
"she cheated death in a spectacular crash"

[Bergara]

Publicado originalmente por Oni:

It is debatable, because you're still cheating the game itself. You don't need to be deceiving a victim to cheat something. Like cheating on a test for example. As long as you're using unintended shortcuts or exploits to gain an advantage it can qualify as cheating.

The official definition;
1. act dishonestly or unfairly in order to gain an advantage, especially in a game or examination.
2. avoid (something undesirable) by luck or skill.
"she cheated death in a spectacular crash"

Technically, is it debatable if your counter proves the point?

Now since we are defining cheat, maybe you should look up dishonesty, unfairly, and avoid.

[Oni]

So who is the victim if you cheat on a test?

[Bergara]

Publicado originalmente por Oni:

So who is the victim if you cheat on a test?

Well since you didn't elaborate on what kind of test, I will define the test myself.

Cheating on a performance enhancing drug test before an Olympic event, victimizes the other competitors.

Have you looked up Dishonesty or Unfairly yet?

I am going to bed.

[Oni]

I meant something like a written test, which is what any sane person should've thought of when someone mentions cheating on a test, instead of olympians and steroids. lol

But using the drug test as a basis for comparison, smithing specific broken combinations of weapon parts to make unintended amounts of profit would be using it as a way to get an unfair advantage and victimize the other NPCs in the game. But that would come down to whether or not you only count real people as victims or not. You could even rationalize it as you being your own victim as you're cheating yourself out of the intended gameplay experience. Which seems pretty debate-able.

I mean I was buying cheat magazines for games way back before the internet or even multiplayer were a thing. Kinda late to be arguing the use of the word tbh.

And using exploits is considered cheating, singleplayer games just don't have any moderation to penalize you for it. But if you try using exploits in most online games you're likely to catch a ban. It all just comes down to whether something is intended or not, and when other players start being affected by it then it definitely changes the severity of the action, but it doesn't change the fact that it's still an exploit.

[Shelcko]

Publicado originalmente por shingen36:

Smithing is still bugged as hell. After a certain level, you stop learning new components.

Not for me. I learn everything. Just craft javelin and two handed sword.

[Edmund Greyfox]

Publicado originalmente por Oni:

So who is the victim if you cheat on a test?

Anyone in the future who relies on you to actually know how to do whatever it was you had to cheat on to pass. This is why you have so many people in the business community making good money that can't do basic math, spell, or write a coherent sentence.

[Edmund Greyfox]

Hard to believe this argument is still coming up. It's not like it hasn't created hundreds of pages worth of threads before this one. It's in the game, and i have yet to see any of the dev's call it an exploit or even say that it isn't working as intended. That being the case, it's not cheating. Maybe a little cheesy, but not cheating.

People also forget that the economy isn't done, and we have no idea what upgraded workshops will make once they are finally rolled out. If it's anything like warband was they will net far more cash then you can with smithing for something that's totally passive. We also don't know what the prices of the top end gear is going to be since it hasn't been spawning for about a year now (unless something changed in the last month since i played). I know that at one time every piece of armor i was wearing was much better then what you can get now, and every last piece cost a million+ to buy from a shop.

Finally, you can make a fortune just by winning battles in this game, so the only time making cash should be an issue after the early game is if you get stuck at peace for long periods.

[Oni]

If the profits made sense then sure, but you randomly get insanely higher sell profits for specific combinations of parts vs different ones of the exact same tiers and materials. So it's clearly not intended, so I think specifically taking advantage of it could qualify as an exploit, which qualifies as cheating.

All i'm saying it's debate-able. nobody cares if you do it since it's just a singleplayer game, so whether or not it's cheating really comes down to a person to person basis.

One thing for sure is it's broken af