Wrong culture penalty makes impossible to play as vassal.

[Kirara]

As it says. Currently I'm playing as vlandian and are vassal of Northern Empire with imperial town as my fief. And I'm about to lose it to rebellion due to low loyalty. I have done everything I could to avoid that, like having right governor, holding festivals and resolving issues. I have high relationships with every notable, the town is not starving and security is good, yet this is not enough.
One of the problems is that lords keep proposing laws that reduce loyalty all the time. Right now we have hunting rights that everyone in realm seems to love and my influence is too low to propose to change that.
So, yeah, my town and villages are secure and prospering and yet populace seems to hate me, because, how dare that dirty vlandian wench keep them fed and secure.
This is my second failed attempt to roleplay this character and I guess I will have to give up, because with current mechanics it's impossible and waste of time. Should have become ruler instead. :(
There really should be more mechanics and things to do to boost loyalty. Like some quests, events and new laws. Maybe even character traits could play some role. For example, kind or generous would give small boost to loyalty while cruel or closefisted came with penalties. Anything to give players more room to roleplay their intended characters, because right now it literally takes one wrong move like single law to completely ruin everything.

[ᴍᴜꜱʜ-ᴄʀÆᴍ?]

Originally posted by Kirara:

Maybe even character traits could play some role.

Good idea.

Anyway, there's an immersive mod I like in which it changes the fiefs culture if you can hold onto it for 'x' amount of days. Just a thought.

[Hasbulat]

Why you didnt taken an Emperian main hero? I mean, if you plan to be an emperial vassal, it just naturally to choose an emperian hero too. Or at least one from the closest neigour land.

In your case - just give a fief back and conquest another one in Vlandia. ;)

[galadon3]

Honestly I can see why they don't want the culture to change within some years but it would be nice to have a modifier from being the ruler of that fief for a prolonged time, that grows to counter the culture penalty.
Basically the people there getting used to their foreign ruler. That way you would have an actual bonus if you held one of your culture long enough (getting that bonus but no culture malus to start with), while a foreign ruler can at least be accepted by the population over time.

[ᴍᴜꜱʜ-ᴄʀÆᴍ?]

should be able to force 'loyalty' through fear - stamping out revolts rather than full blown 'auto seizure of your fief' rebellions

[Samantha Raven]

I just see it as realistic the point is just 1 point witch makes sense there would always be that sense in any nation culture of a not native ruling over them like natural resentment of that fact.
Dosn't mean you couldn't make the subjects like you alot just there will always be in there minds that too bad there not of our culture can we fully trust them they are not of our ways and customes like.

Thats where having govenors of that culture help and counter that negative effect comes in.

There also alot of govenor perks to counter these things with heros being asign to govenor so its like ohh not of that culture as ruler but i asign a govenor of that culture to ease there concerns.

Same way asigning a govenor not of that culture gives negative effect as well.

I personally like the current system and makes choosing the culture your from being the culture u want to be apart of and be loyal and patriotic too as your main people your apart of and them also favoring you for that too.

Like loyal to your own and proud when your own do amazing things but when another forginer you oftin get sense of like how can we trust them when there leading armys agenst there own people kinda thing or there not part of our culture how can we trust them fully. just makes sense to me.

[Kirara]

Originally posted by Hasbulat:

Why you didnt taken an Emperian main hero? I mean, if you plan to be an emperial vassal, it just naturally to choose an emperian hero too. Or at least one from the closest neigour land.

In your case - just give a fief back and conquest another one in Vlandia. ;)

Because I'm roleplaying? If I wanted to min max or go easier way, I would obviously create character like that. Also, being imperial will sooner or later create problems as soon as they start conquering beyond their borders.

[Kirara]

Originally posted by galadon3:

Honestly I can see why they don't want the culture to change within some years but it would be nice to have a modifier from being the ruler of that fief for a prolonged time, that grows to counter the culture penalty.
Basically the people there getting used to their foreign ruler. That way you would have an actual bonus if you held one of your culture long enough (getting that bonus but no culture malus to start with), while a foreign ruler can at least be accepted by the population over time.

Personally, for myself, culture change of settlement feels wrong. I don't think that wrong culture penalty is biggest issue in this case. The real problem is that there are not enough game mechanics to counter that. And yes, being benevolent ruler that takes care of their people should definitely remove some of that malus.

[Muscarine]

That's a complicated point because you're still an occupation

Of course we're in a game, but just as a reference, in our world there are separatist movements even hundreds of years later
Fed and secure doesn't override the strong sense of identity some people live by

So, while i agree it shouldn't be an inevitable losing battle, it also shouldn't be as simple as just keeping your numbers in the green

[CoffeeBro]

Originally posted by Hasbulat:

Why you didnt taken an Emperian main hero? I mean, if you plan to be an emperial vassal, it just naturally to choose an emperian hero too. Or at least one from the closest neigour land.

In your case - just give a fief back and conquest another one in Vlandia. ;)

No, this isn't something you should have to do. I too often play as an Imperial who joins the side of Vlandia.

It's part of role playing.
Also, as in real life, if I'm good to the people under me, in time I should win them over.

So I'm one person who gets where OP is coming from.

Fun gaming all.

edit = added the word "should"

[Kirara]

Originally posted by Muscarine:

That's a complicated point because you're still an occupation

Of course we're in a game, but just as a reference, in our world there are separatist movements even hundreds of years later
Fed and secure doesn't override the strong sense of identity some people live by

So, while i agree it shouldn't be an inevitable losing battle, it also shouldn't be as simple as just keeping your numbers in the green

I come from nation that has fought for their freedom and rights to exist for centuries, so I know all about seperatists and freedom movements. This is why I consider possible culture change of conquered settlements in game extremely wrong.
Besides, in this case, my char is not occupant. That town was conquered by her imperial liege, who considered her to be worthy to rule over it. Their supreme overlord is still imperial. My char are not trying to force her culture or customs on her subjects. That alone should remove at least some of the malus.

[Kirara]

Originally posted by Psycho-Active:

should be able to force 'loyalty' through fear - stamping out revolts rather than full blown 'auto seizure of your fief' rebellions

I think that if things go really wrong, we should have chance to prevent rebellion. It is indeed silly to auto lose everything as soon as rebellion starts.

[RJboxer]

Originally posted by Kirara:

Originally posted by Hasbulat:

Why you didnt taken an Emperian main hero? I mean, if you plan to be an emperial vassal, it just naturally to choose an emperian hero too. Or at least one from the closest neigour land.

In your case - just give a fief back and conquest another one in Vlandia. ;)

Because I'm roleplaying? If I wanted to min max or go easier way, I would obviously create character like that. Also, being imperial will sooner or later create problems as soon as they start conquering beyond their borders.

Being imperial is the easiest faction in the game, to avoid the issues your OP states. Bar none. There is no other culture that has it as easy.

Yes it is still an issue, Yes it still is a bit too much of a penalty In my mind...

But... I am in 1.6.0 this week, and tried to see how bad it is, if I pick EVERY policy that boosts loyalty. As a vassal I proposed and voted/won a policy to boost loyalty + .5 I forget which one... Then king died, I became king. I then proposed ALL OF THEM. I forget the boost, but I believe it is over 2.. I'd have to log in and check, But Im pretty sure all fiefs in my kingdom are +2 or higher to loyalty. The culture hit is -3. The governor hit is -1 .


There are multiple factors involved, and not every fief will have the same +, and -. So as I played I watched my fiefs. They all hovered around 60+. a couple were near 100. Cool. What about my vassals. They too had all near 100. So then as I expanded, I added vassals. Tried to give them ONLY fiefs in their culture. but the fief awarding is still in need of adjustments IMO... and ended up giving 3 empire to a sturgian dude, and 2 sturgian fiefs to an empire dude. It didn't matter. they both have loyalty over 50. I have had zero rebellions in my 18 year campaign. no one is close to rebelling.

So yeah, policies seem to be the answer. Change your kingdom policies.

[Kirara]

Originally posted by RJboxer:

Originally posted by Kirara:

Because I'm roleplaying? If I wanted to min max or go easier way, I would obviously create character like that. Also, being imperial will sooner or later create problems as soon as they start conquering beyond their borders.

Being imperial is the easiest faction in the game, to avoid the issues your OP states. Bar none. There is no other culture that has it as easy.

Yes it is still an issue, Yes it still is a bit too much of a penalty In my mind...

But... I am in 1.6.0 this week, and tried to see how bad it is, if I pick EVERY policy that boosts loyalty. As a vassal I proposed and voted/won a policy to boost loyalty + .5 I forget which one... Then king died, I became king. I then proposed ALL OF THEM. I forget the boost, but I believe it is over 2.. I'd have to log in and check, But Im pretty sure all fiefs in my kingdom are +2 or higher to loyalty. The culture hit is -3. The governor hit is -1 .


There are multiple factors involved, and not every fief will have the same +, and -. So as I played I watched my fiefs. They all hovered around 60+. a couple were near 100. Cool. What about my vassals. They too had all near 100. So then as I expanded, I added vassals. Tried to give them ONLY fiefs in their culture. but the fief awarding is still in need of adjustments IMO... and ended up giving 3 empire to a sturgian dude, and 2 sturgian fiefs to an empire dude. It didn't matter. they both have loyalty over 50. I have had zero rebellions in my 18 year campaign. no one is close to rebelling.

So yeah, policies seem to be the answer. Change your kingdom policies.

I know about kingdom policies and how to use them. It is possible to keep things under control with them if you are the ruler. It is difficult or impossible if you are vassal of foreign culture. As I said, some rulers and lords just love policies that gives benefits in excange for loyalty. They can afford that loyalty cost, while my char cannot.
I play with death mechanics disabled, so there is no chance to be voted as ruler. I also don't want that, because my plan was to assemble dragon banner, give it to ruler of my choice, unite empire and then conquer rest of Calradia, while remaining as loyal vassal. Right now something like this seems impossible.

[Dr.Chazzzzz]

It sounds like you give up to easily. Getting fiefs to a stable loyalty outside your culture is doable with all the + loyalty options they give you even with the - loyalty policies in place.

[Hasbulat]

Originally posted by Kirara:

Originally posted by Hasbulat:

Why you didnt taken an Emperian main hero? I mean, if you plan to be an emperial vassal, it just naturally to choose an emperian hero too. Or at least one from the closest neigour land.

In your case - just give a fief back and conquest another one in Vlandia. ;)

Because I'm roleplaying? If I wanted to min max or go easier way, I would obviously create character like that. Also, being imperial will sooner or later create problems as soon as they start conquering beyond their borders.

Role play doesnt mean to avoid sence in your decitions. ;)
Otherway, you are right, there is not enough things we could do against this problem with loyality. The system with loyality and rebellion and acceptance of the culture of ruler has to be reworked.