clan tier 4 is too high to start your own kingdom

[hOLDtHEdOOR]

It takes a really long time to reach clan tier 4, that and I've found it easily possible to take a castle or city at clan tier 2.

Cheat mode allows to create a kingdom before clan tier 4 but you can't choose your policies or culture.

Anybody else feel like there should be no clan tier limit for starting a kingdom?

[thunda]

Having your own kingdom is pointless anyway. That part of the game is unfinished, broken and buggy.

[Urmel]

its extremly simple to look for a weak castle/town from a faction and conquer it.

so have a poor castle and 100 recruits as an "army" doesnt mean that you could call that a "kindom". even on lowest difficult settings it would be hard dont get stomped to death by other enemy lords...

[Edmund Greyfox]

Nope. Clan tier 4 is really not that time consuming to get to, especially if you join a kingdom for a while before leaving to start your own kingdom. The key is to be fighting lords that outnumber you, not bandits that only give you a point or two of gain per battle.

[Morkonan]

Originally posted by hOLDtHEdOOR:

...
Anybody else feel like there should be no clan tier limit for starting a kingdom?

Sure, go for it.

But, then you're likely to be roflstomped by everything from the leading factions on the map to wandering groups of hobos.

You're also likely to be the lowest Tier Clan in your own Kingdom. That will likely have an exceptional impact on play due to many Kingdom Policies focusing on exclusive benefits for High Tier Clans. Your Lords may end up more powerful and capable than "their King." Provided, of course, any other Lord would accept an invitation from "Low-Budget Clan #_34." :)

Player kingdoms in Warband always have the initial hurdle of just plain surviving once they're declared. It takes time to prepare to declare oneself in Warband and there's some of that theme evident in Bannerlord. (Though, it's much weaker in Bannerlord and a crap-ton of mechanics that probably should be there just aren't.)

There's something to be said for the sort of Feudal system in Bannerlord, too - Lords and Kings would be very angry if any peasant could suddenly declare themselves a King...

[The Mau Corporation]

I'm not sure it's a good idea to shorten the journey and hand out the destination early and conveniently. Kingdomhood should be a long and perilous march.

[Clovis Sangrail]

Originally posted by Morkonan:

Lords and Kings would be very angry if any peasant could suddenly declare themselves a King...

Just ask Perkin Warbeck.

Oh, wait. You can't because the Tudors hanged him.

[Amici Nybråten]

Tier 4 makes sense imo. It is very scary when big kingdoms see you as an easy pick, and thus the long journey increases the chances that the player won't get stomped on when the time comes. If you don't want to play the game as intended you can use mods after all, and the modding tools will probably get better with time if you feel like they're not working as intended now.

[tealesc]

I think if they were to allow for you to go from clan - minor faction - kingdom would help that.
You could do more but without actually being a kingdom and also while owning land.

I must say though. Why would you want to be kingdom when as a clan no one can declare war on you unless you attack them? If you know how to be patient and wait for men and opportunities then you can't lose so its not hard to attack people when you want and defeat an entire faction by yourself. (trust me I've done it)

[TaleWorlds Community Team]

Thank you for sharing your feedback, it has been noted and forwarded to the development team.

[Morkonan]

Uh,...going to forward "...Anybody else feel like there should be no clan tier limit for starting a kingdom?" to the development team?

Cool...

I think the player should get a free Castle during character creation. Something that looks nice, but not too expensive, maybe with a two-level effect with a path running down the middle. And, a shrubbery.

[hOLDtHEdOOR]

Originally posted by tealesc:

I think if they were to allow for you to go from clan - minor faction - kingdom would help that.
You could do more but without actually being a kingdom and also while owning land.

I must say though. Why would you want to be kingdom when as a clan no one can declare war on you unless you attack them? If you know how to be patient and wait for men and opportunities then you can't lose so its not hard to attack people when you want and defeat an entire faction by yourself. (trust me I've done it)

Main reason to be a kingdom over just a clan that owns land is the ability to form an army.

I cheated using the command console to form my kingdom which didn't allow me to choose my culture or initial policies but I'm still not clan tier 4 even after taking a castle and a city, also I could have wiped out the Sturgians which is who I took the land from if I had executed the lords I captured instead of trying to win them over by releasing them.

Also I'm using the House of Calderia mod so executing lords has little to no affect because the mod creates a new clan leader if there is not a member of the clan who is of age to take their place.

[hOLDtHEdOOR]

Originally posted by Urmel:

its extremly simple to look for a weak castle/town from a faction and conquer it.

so have a poor castle and 100 recruits as an "army" doesnt mean that you could call that a "kindom". even on lowest difficult settings it would be hard dont get stomped to death by other enemy lords...

By clan tier 2 it's easy to have 100 top tier units that can sweep across a land taking out any castle of city with 200-300 low tier units.

I've taken a castle before that had 300 units guarding it while I only lost about a dozen of my units to death. about 30 or so were wounded and that's why a good surgeon is important.

Right now the game doesn't understand how to barter for peace as one gold is enough to get a faction to agree to peace but in Warband I often would start my own kingdom with only 100 or so Knights, I'd take one castle and then stash my knights before going out to recruit more units and train them.

The big difference between this game and Warband is sieges. in Warband 100 Swadian Knights could hold a castle against almost any thing the AI could throw at it. In Bannerlord the AI starts the siege and then just sits there until the army loses cohesion and breaks apart. I've yet to fight a siege on the defensive side because the AI just will not attack if the player is in the keep with their top tier army.

[Morkonan]

Originally posted by hOLDtHEdOOR:

...

Main reason to be a kingdom over just a clan that owns land is the ability to form an army.
...

You can form an Army for free if you're part of a kingdom, are Clan Tier II, and have a Companion lead another Party.

If that's what you really want, then suggest Companion Party forming earlier or maybe even only having "been" part of a kingdom once in order to "unlock" that ability no matter if you're affiliated or not.

Staring a Kingdom on Day 1 is just a bit too strong in some cases and nearly doomed to fail for many new players in others.

[hOLDtHEdOOR]

Originally posted by Morkonan:

Uh,...going to forward "...Anybody else feel like there should be no clan tier limit for starting a kingdom?" to the development team?

Cool...

I think the player should get a free Castle during character creation. Something that looks nice, but not too expensive, maybe with a two-level effect with a path running down the middle. And, a shrubbery.

I actually think this might be ok depending on the choices you make in character creation. Why not allow the player to choose to start of as the heir of a landowning lord?

Essentially every choice you make in Bannerlord's character creation is the same after reaching clan tier 1. In Warband if you didn't start as a noble then you had a much harder time establishing your right to rule. But at least in Warband you didn't have a clan tier restriction dictating when you could try

My point is Warband allowed you to choose your restrictions, Bannerlord enforces them on you.

[Morkonan]

Originally posted by hOLDtHEdOOR:

Originally posted by Morkonan:

Uh,...going to forward "...Anybody else feel like there should be no clan tier limit for starting a kingdom?" to the development team?

Cool...

I think the player should get a free Castle during character creation. Something that looks nice, but not too expensive, maybe with a two-level effect with a path running down the middle. And, a shrubbery.

I actually think this might be ok depending on the choices you make in character creation. Why not allow the player to choose to start of as the heir of a landowning lord?

Essentially every choice you make in Bannerlord's character creation is the same after reaching clan tier 1. In Warband if you didn't start as a noble then you had a much harder time establishing your right to rule. But at least in Warband you didn't have a clan tier restriction dictating when you could try

It would really be difficult to say whether or not Bannerlord's kingdom management and diplomacy mechanics could really support such a "Start." It's pretty borked, right now...

It also takes a good bit away from "progression." Bannerlord is built for a much longer playthrough experience than Warband. It's got a lot more fiddly bits that deal with long playthroughs and gradual progression. Accumulation of resources like Influence is a non-trivial thing up until the "end-game." If a player starts accumulating the end-game currency right on Day 1.... That's kind of "Overpowered." :)

And, if they've got to improve their fief, get troops, get Companions, pay for a garrison, chase of enemies/Lords and get some +rep with local Nobles without, perhaps, being able to access Kingdom Policies or even make use of them because they're too low a Tier, well... All of that might be just "too much" for a Day 1 character to deal with.

Again, dunno. It's certainly something a mod could provide. For vanilla, though, there could be too many players making that their default start and a slew of negative reviews yelling at TW for making the game "too hard." :)

PS: I do think we should get a Shrubbery, though.... ;) Maybe that could be an "Early Access Only" reward? A "Shrubbery Steam-Emote!" !!