Bow vs Crossbow

[NotReallyMyName]

Prior to update 1.5.3 crossbow wasn't a valid weapon when compared to bow, for a mounted character at least. Now, it's finally possible to use while mounted, but it still feels lacking comparing to bow. For one, bow has more arrows per stack (23 minimal arrows comparing to 18 or 20), faster firing speed, and higher damage. Depending on the bow in question, it can be even more accurate than a crossbow.
That being said, I think crossbows need a buff to ammo capacity, one can carry much more bolts than arrows, different bolt types as well, blunt and boradhead bolts. I don't know what else should be added to crossbows, but they were relatively easy to use, comparing to bows, even if they suffered in firing rate.

[TJ the HedgeScout]

in warband, crossbows had a fixed damage output based on what kind and it's modifiers, higher proficiency made you more accurate and reload faster.
Yeah i dont know what to give crossbows, i usually just go to arenas to train my combat skills for when any situation requires me to use something i normally dont use.
My preferred loadout is, Double Purpose Sword that can do both 1 handed and 2 handed, a Shield, and a Bow.
Starting out i usually do a bow and 3 sets of arrows so i can pick off looters for xp and stuff to sell.

[Claytonium]

Here's what I would do if I were designing a game that was trying to be more true-to-life and less fantasy:

1. Make all crossbows take longer to load and fire than bows.
2. The weakest crossbows should do about as much damage as the medium-strength bows.
3. The most powerful crossbows should deal tremendous damage, maybe 200+, but must take ~30 seconds to load, and could only be loaded on foot.
4. Weak crossbows can be loaded and fired on horseback. Medium and heavy crossbows can't be loaded or fired on horseback.
5. No crossbow can be "stored" loaded. When you switch from another weapon to a crossbow, you always have to load it.
5. The player starts off being very accurate with all crossbows. Accuracy only increases slightly as the player gains levels.
6. The player starts off being very inaccurate with bows. Accuracy increases considerably as the player gains levels.
7. Add crossbow loading mechanisms. There are lots to choose from - belt hook, spanning belt with pulley, goat's foot lever, cranequin (maybe), windlass, etc. Each have their own pros and cons.
8. Bows and crossbows use a variety of bolts or arrows - needle bodkins for piercing cloth and chainmail, wide bodkin for piercing plate, swallowtails for anti-horse, blunts were only used in real life for hunting small game like rabbits, but I suppose they can be added to the game anyway.

The interesting thing is that in real life, there were pros and cons to each, and neither was "better" than the other. They are naturally balanced.


I really, really like Medieval crossbows. I bought a fairly-historically accurate custom made one, and I own several books on them.

[TJ the HedgeScout]

Originally posted by Claytonium:

3. The most powerful crossbows should deal tremendous damage, maybe 200+, but must take ~30 seconds to load, and could only be loaded on foot.

What skill level? Lowest? 300+? Somewhere in the middle?

[Claytonium]

Originally posted by TJ the HedgeScout:

Originally posted by Claytonium:

3. The most powerful crossbows should deal tremendous damage, maybe 200+, but must take ~30 seconds to load, and could only be loaded on foot.

What skill level? Lowest? 300+? Somewhere in the middle?

Very roughly, the most powerful historical crossbows that could be carried around on foot had a draw weight of ~2,000 pounds. That means you'd have to pull the string back with 2,000 pounds of force to lock it so it could be fired. The bolts it fired would be at least 1 inch in diameter, and around 2 feet long. It could fire bolts through several unarmored men standing in a row.

With a windlass, (a tool used for drawing the most powerful crossbows), a 10 year old girl could span that crossbow, but it would probably take her over 1 minute. Since it takes almost no talent or strength to draw such a powerful bow with a windlass, the player should be able to do it at the lowest skill level. Now, in real life, such a weapon would be very expensive, and the cost of the bolts that it could use would also be expensive, so that could be a way of balancing it in game. Also, it's rate of fire was so slow, it wouldn't be useful in a lot of situations other than a siege.

Other spanning devices, such as the goat's foot lever, can span up to a 500 pound bow, but they only take ~5 seconds to span. That particular bow would probably be about as powerful as a longbow. (A 500 pound crossbow holds roughly equal energy and does equal damage to a 200 pound longbow, because the crossbow draws the string back 6 inches, whereas the longbow draws the string back ~25 inches.)

[TJ the HedgeScout]

So a high crossbow skill is required or suffer super long load times? 2k pounds is quite alot

[Claytonium]

I can think of 2 ways of implementing spanning devices:

1. Have them unlock by your character's crossbow level. The first unlock would be a belt hook (can only span weak bows), subsequent unlocks would allow stronger crossbows. This prevents low level characters from using powerful bows. Because it's level-based, the spanning mechanism is always equipped - you automatically carry and use the one required by your equipped crossbow.

2. Make them take up an equipment slot. 1 slot for crossbow, 1 slot for bolts, 1 slot for spanning device, and 1 slot for shield or weapon. This kind of stinks because you only have 1 non-crossbow slot, but maybe it could help balance things.

The more I think about it, the more I think my suggestions would require a huge overhaul of how crossbows work in the game. It would be easier to just do something basic like adding more bolts per quarrel like the OP suggested. The only problem with this is that if you keep balancing this way, crossbows won't be any different from bows except for aesthetics.

[TJ the HedgeScout]

I dont know, we dont want to discourage people from wanting to use them, but also dont make them superior to bows.

[flyingscot1066]

Historically crossbows gained favor because you could hand one to a raw recruit and an hour later they could put a bolt somewhere into a man sized target, whereas archers required extensive training.
This could be replicated by instituting a wider variety of crossbows, from the simple prodd (hunting crossbow that fires pellets) to the heavy arbalest dealing massive damage. As noted by somebody above, the learning curve (accuracy) of bows could be steep, so elite archer units are FAR better than recruits, and shallow for crossbowmen, so the main differences between recruit and elite units would be gear.

[NotReallyMyName]

Originally posted by Claytonium:

Here's what I would do if I were designing a game that was trying to be more true-to-life and less fantasy:

1. Make all crossbows take longer to load and fire than bows.
2. The weakest crossbows should do about as much damage as the medium-strength bows.
3. The most powerful crossbows should deal tremendous damage, maybe 200+, but must take ~30 seconds to load, and could only be loaded on foot.
4. Weak crossbows can be loaded and fired on horseback. Medium and heavy crossbows can't be loaded or fired on horseback.
5. No crossbow can be "stored" loaded. When you switch from another weapon to a crossbow, you always have to load it.
5. The player starts off being very accurate with all crossbows. Accuracy only increases slightly as the player gains levels.
6. The player starts off being very inaccurate with bows. Accuracy increases considerably as the player gains levels.
7. Add crossbow loading mechanisms. There are lots to choose from - belt hook, spanning belt with pulley, goat's foot lever, cranequin (maybe), windlass, etc. Each have their own pros and cons.
8. Bows and crossbows use a variety of bolts or arrows - needle bodkins for piercing cloth and chainmail, wide bodkin for piercing plate, swallowtails for anti-horse, blunts were only used in real life for hunting small game like rabbits, but I suppose they can be added to the game anyway.

The interesting thing is that in real life, there were pros and cons to each, and neither was "better" than the other. They are naturally balanced.


I really, really like Medieval crossbows. I bought a fairly-historically accurate custom made one, and I own several books on them.

My thoughts:
1: Yes to loading, for firing, you just pull the trigger, while for bows you loosen the string, not much difference.
2. I'd say increase damage output across all crossbows by 20%, that way you need less bolts to kill a target
3. That would be a bit of an overkill, but there is no kill like an overkill.
4. I agree, but there are new perks, and you can use longbows and heavy crossbows on horseback, though it's a bit of a pain to get enough money to get the item in question, or find one in the first place.
5-6. We aren't awfully inaccurate, but I dunno.
7. Or custom made bows and crossbows. It's not smithing but more of a carpentry though. Speaking of which, armor could be crafted as well, at least metal one.
8. So far we don't have any major difference between arrows, and all bolts are the same, except for capacity of pink quiver bolts. Though I find using steppe arrows more than any other arrow type, as the quiver holds 36 arrows.

Saying that, crossbows still need a buff in my opinion. They were better at piercing armor at the very least. Not to mention that bolts finally need diversity, just like arrows.

[Uugly]

The biggest weakness of the crossbow is during siege mode. There is no way to replenish your ammo. While bow you can and you can easily get over 100 kill by just keep shooting climbing enemies.

[xDDD]

Originally posted by ye:

The biggest weakness of the crossbow is during siege mode. There is no way to replenish your ammo. While bow you can and you can easily get over 100 kill by just keep shooting climbing enemies.

Yeah this is something worth nothing, they are all arrow barrels and there are no bolt barrels.
Kind of BS to be honest I wish they'd add them in because it really hinders crossbowmen

[Garry]

This thread was quite old before the recent post, so we're locking it to prevent confusion.