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They will not attempt to raise the siege ladders until the ram contacts the gate. Do not rush them. I have noticed they will wait, then once the ram batters open the gate they assault the walls and try to run down and open the inner gate. I have also noticed them attacking the inner gate after the first gate falls. I guess it depends on how the battle is going.
I always use seige tower, ram and Ballista. Once the towers are at the wall and the enemy cluster around it, it is very satisfying to kill 2, 3 or more with one shot of a ballista.
Hey GIjoe, thanks for the reply.
Okay, so all of the soldiers act depending on what already happened during the battle.
So basically... You never give order during sieges, right ?
You should not. At least, not at this stage in development. Very little you do as the "Commander" during a siege actually matters at all. (It's more like "nothing" you do really matters, but I'll leave some room there for personal kill counts and holding the ladder connections if you encounter a set-back.)
You will encounter cultural castle types and wall-tier combinations that work just fine. Then, some that barely work. Others.. that yield what appears to be blind rioters at a beard convention.. It's not your fault. A number of issues exist with wall connections for various siege equipment, towers being the most susceptible to connection failures. But, when units are using only one ladder on a tower or ladder set, it's not necessarily that the other is broken/unconnected to a navmesh. It's that they overwhelmingly prefer that path, IMO.
In my experience, they will always eventually try to reach the ladders to start them being raised. However, some ladder-groups have their rally point blocked by decorative terrain objects. That was probably done on the last day by an angry intern... They also borked several tower connections by placing ammo barrels on them. (Aserai castle, tier 3 walls, IIRC - right connection point for siege tower blocks the ramp, preventing units from exiting it I think.)
It's not that you're doing anything wrong.
It's that you can't possibly do anything wrong.
That's because the player doesn't matter at all in sieges.
<The rest is a short treatise describing how borked sieges are and some things that you might want to know, but won't really be too useful in the long-run since I am hoping that TW eventually gets to work fixing sieges... As far as I can see, they haven't significantly touched siege scenes since the first week or two of EA. They've been borked for a long time, now.>
And, yes, I do apologize that I'm ranting in your thread... :) But, it's "on-topic." :D
No order you give is really "decisive." The entirety of the siege's progress is controlled by a script. (IMO, no proof but the obvious if anyone cares to sit back and watch it.)
On start, units travel to a set of "go to" positions, divvied up depending on the equipment you've chosen with a number of default, viable, positions for ranged types and some rally points for units not otherwise occupied at this point.
Once units reach any object that can be activated, it starts functioning. (Ram, Catapults/etc, Towers.)
The first assigned point for units assigned to ladders is a rally point in front of the ladders. They will NOT activate those ladders by themselves until well into the opening phase of the siege. They will, however, move to those ladders if the player moves to them and/or begins to raise them.
^--- This is the only case in the entirety of the siege in which the player's actions result in a significant progression of the siege in terms of "tactical significance. The ONLY case. (Unless the player has the time to bash down the inner gate themselves when the units assigned to do so can not reach it or do not see it as a viable enemy target, which is pretty darn frequently.)
For any group that is scripted to "go to" a certain point upon not being able to reach that point, will cause that portion of the "script" to "fail." This can result in strange behavior by other groups. It can result in the script continuing to grab other units to complete the order rather than progressing any other order.
Groups that are assigned to go to a point by the script will go to that point. Period. This also means that if the script has gotten bugged out and is continually trying to achieve a successful "go to this spot" order, it will do so by repeatedly selecting units from "wherever" to achieve that, even if they're on the other side of the castle. They will move to that point, ignoring everything else, including defenders. (Classic example: One group of ladder-climbers moving all the way across the courtyard, past the defending formation at the gate, through that formation, all the way up the stairs to the wall section where the "go to" point is. Upon reaching it, they might even resume some kind of beneficial behavior... or not. If the script has been bugged, they could easily just stand there until the siege is over.
Once the wall spots have been successfully pathed to by xx units, the next goal is the Gatehouse. This apparently assumes that the inner gate is now under attack if a Ram has been used. That only happens in about half the sieges I've experienced... Units will path to the gatehouse regardless of the presence of any enemy units anywhere else.
Once the gatehouse goal has been reached, units will then apparently make sure the walls are "clear" of enemies, more or less. I think some are given back to their Unit AI at that point and seem to be allowed to "free roam" on top of the walls. Others can/may be tasked to then move to the courtyard.
The courtyard defender group is apparently set in formation and "facing the enemy" which it sees as the player's spawn point. Feel free to whack away at formation-defenders in this group as they will only rarely respond unless you're in front of them. (They will retaliate if you get close while attacking or you've done a lot of damage to them.)
If the inner gate is a viable target and units can reach it from the outside, they should have broken it down by the time the courtyard group can be attacked by wall-assigned units that have cleared the gatehouse. If not, it is possible that a unit can open it from the inside. I've seen this happen on a handful of occasions, so it's fairly rare. That's not because such a unit can't survive, it's because any unit near that defending formation is likely on its way to the other side of the friggin' map - The courtyard formation is the last "goal" to be attacked. Period. No matter how easy it would be to take out, no matter how tactically necessary in order to clear the way to the gatehouse, the courtyard formation is supposed to be some kind of "last stand of the defenders" before they begin retreating into the inner-keep in suitable scenes. (There is supposed to be some kind of "Second Stage" of a siege where the player leads a smaller group into the inner-keep to the "throne room.")
An exception - Apparently, there is a "fail-safe" in the script that allows your units to finally clear the map of any remaining defenders that may exist so you can have a "sensible" victory. So, if the script bugs out with a breach and there is a breach-defending group, this is the point at which they will be viable for attack. Apparently, being a defender at a bugged-out breach in the wall is the safest spot on the map.
In all of the above.. You. Don't. Matter. Go get some coffee or a soda or check your emails or whatever - You don't matter.
So, no, you didn't do anything wrong because you can't possibly DO anything wrong.
I don't know anything about any hidden entrances/bolt-holes/sally-ports or the like. The only "entrance" through the walls other than a gate is a "Breach" made during the initial bombardment phase. And, those either don't work, don't have a viable path that can be seen by the AI of the units, or in any case don't actually allow units to do much other than possibly attack the guarding group. BUT, in my experience, they bug out the script or the groups assigned to them, more often than not. You could actually make a difference here by ordering units to follow you through the breach.
I've only seen a breach work once where the siege script was actually able to accept it and didn't bug out because of it. That was on a Sturgian castle type, IIRC. In all other cases I've experienced they have "issues." BUT, I stopped trying to create breaches long ago.
Killer-leet-strat -> Build a Ram. Go.
That's it. That's giving the script the most smoothly operating set of initial conditions you can possibly give it. Anything added just presents it with more failure points.
I don't use anything but ladders and a Ram because that's apparently what the script and its "go to" commands work best with and those present the least number of failure point possibilities. Note, however, that I only use the Ram to take out the outer gate for a "chance" that the inner gate will actually attract my units as a viable target. That usually doesn't happen, though... More often, if I want that inner gate down I have to attack it by myself. Most of the time, Ram units will move to ladders to get to their goal point after the outer gate is down rather than attacking the inner gate.
Initiate siege
Build siege camp
Build 2 siege towers and a ram
Buid all 4 trebuchets and put in reserve
Click to start siege
Go make a sandwich and a pitcher of mai tais
Make a quick trip to the bathroom.
Wash hands.
Come back and check progress of siege.
If not done yet, eat the sandwich, pour up a mai tai, and check again.
This works as well as actively trying to order your troops about.
^-- This.
Though, I prefer refreshing my coffee.
Sieges are the worst-developed portion of the game while also being the more important part of gameplay...
I don't know what rationale, if any, Taleworlds used to justify their decisions in this. They probably defaulted to "this is the only way we know how to make sieges actually "do.""
This is "Warband II." A purchaser deserves better these days than having the key gaming element being the weakest in terms of player-participation, especially if they're a Warband fan... Sieges in Warband are better in that the player can actually make a difference by issuing orders that can have...meaning to the outcome of the siege.
OK, as long as you wash your hands.
Agreed. Sieges are the worst part of the game right now, and we do deserve better.
I don't give a rat's ass about multiplayer or whether women should be lords or fixing smithing or getting more content or heavy armor or what-not, and I damn skippy do not care what the freakin' sheep look like.
But I would like to see sieges work well enough that the army doesn't kill itself jumping off ladders and that when they batter the gate down, they will go through the ♥♥♥♥♥♥ open gate.
That and more diplomacy will make me the happiest of campers.
And pirates. We badly need pirates.
There are two times I give orders during a siege.
1. When we have made it onto the walls, I will sometimes order a general charge. I see no need for ranged troops to still be trying to pick them off.
2. Occasionally one of the defending enemy troops get stuck somewhere as he falls off a wall or some such. My 200 - 1000 troops all try to get to him creating an impassable wall of troops. I will order all of them outside the castle so I may kill the last enemy. So far this has happened to me three times. All three times the single enemy had fallen off a wall into a normally inaccessible area. After the area is clear I jump off the wall or shoot it with a bow. Either way, once it is dead the battle ends. Does not matter if I am stuck, when battle is over it resets.
I washed my hands once in 1981, I think. Worked pretty well, IIRC.
I do use hand-sanitizer now that Covid is in the world. And, to shamelessly borrow a recent meme:
"My body has absorbed so much hand-sanitizer that my pee cleans the toilet."
(Been dying to use that one since I read it this morning. :))
^-- This.
That's all that needs to be said and well-put. I don't play Bannerlord right now because Sieges are too darn annoying for a veteran Warbander who is fully qualified to be a Butterlord due to eleventy-fivety hours of Warband play.
I am a Butterlord.
<wtfisthis#%%^.jpg>
The supply of Pirates is too darn low!
Agreed - We need Pirates.
And... Ninjas?
Please do not tell me you are one of the clueless who uses anti bacterial soap/sanitizer thinking it will kill the Wuhan virus. It is a virus, not a bacteria!
Please don't tell me you're one of the clueless that doesn't understand the chemical, physical, interaction between water, soap, and the viral shell causes it to break down, effectively rendering the virus "inactive." It's called "inactive" because it's sort of debatable whether or not a virus is... "alive." :) It bursts and spills its guts all over the place.
Soap and water, hand-sanitizer, gasoline, very warm water, molten glass.. all these will neutralize most common "viruses." Ethyl alcohol is a particularly effective solvent, too. It also volatilizes in the presence of water and physical action, like stirring/scrubbing/etc. In conjunction with certain types of surfactants (ie: soaps) this increases their performance temporarily. It's why a "secret ingredient" used in many detergents is actually a form of alcohol even though it's also sometimes used as a defoamer.
Added: Some viruses are particularly hardy. Herpes, Tuberculosis, Hepatitus... Those things are especially well protected.
The now higher performing surfactants in conjunction with the solvent properties of alcohol and some extra energy thrown in from rubbing one's hands all act as very effective "anti-viral" sorts of... stuffs. It makes a very inhospitable environment for a virus to continue being viable within...
"Anti-Microbial" is a sort of regulatory term that specifies a product will have certain guaranteed performance expectations. "Anti-Bacterial" is also such a term, with a more constrained definition since I last formulated and worked with regulatory necessities surrounding the licensing, industrial manufacturing, packaging and use of such things.... Both, at least in the US, definitions can be found in the US CFR (Code of Federal Regulations). There are applicable UN regulations as well, though I'm only familiar with them in terms of international shipping and packaging laws/regulations, generally in bulk. (Not for commercial/residential sorts of use, but in bulk for repackaging or further manufacture. In some cases, certain uses for large-scale waste-water treatment, but mine was not such a specialist company as those guys are... Just not worth trying to compete or deal with. :))
In essence.. Yeah, I know about them stuffs a tiny bit.
I can read, he did not specify which is why I asked if he was. You need to unpucker.
I'm glad that so many of you posted a comment (even if i don't really understood how it came to COVID ... :,) )
I thank you all and wish you the best of days :)
See you IG maybe !