Mount & Blade II: Bannerlord

Mount & Blade II: Bannerlord

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N30C Sep 4, 2020 @ 9:57pm
For ♥♥♥♥ Sake a basic range check before spawning is not hard its gaming 101
Seriously i should never spawn DIRECTLY ONTOP of an enemy this is rediculous. Basic range checks before allowing a spawn point to spawn some one have been around for over 3 decades lets get some of this basic stuff fixed so we can enjoy the multiplayer.
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Showing 1-13 of 13 comments
Sinsling Sep 4, 2020 @ 11:33pm 
You should check out call of duty some time. :steammocking:
Makaveli Sep 5, 2020 @ 3:15am 
yes that part is anoying hopefuly they will change that
N30C Sep 5, 2020 @ 7:40am 
Originally posted by Sinsling:
You should check out call of duty some time. :steammocking:

Wouldn't know iv boycotted cod since they ditched dedicated servers. How ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥ retarded do you have to be to NOT use dedicated servers absolutlely retarded.
still__alive Sep 5, 2020 @ 8:34am 
Originally posted by N30C:
Seriously i should never spawn DIRECTLY ONTOP of an enemy this is rediculous. Basic range checks before allowing a spawn point to spawn some one have been around for over 3 decades lets get some of this basic stuff fixed so we can enjoy the multiplayer.

What happens, or what do you think should happen when the range check fails to find a suitable spawn location?

And what happens if the range check does it's thing correctly and picks your spawn location, but in the process of spawning you, the information the range check had available changes - in other words someone moves inside of the range AFTER the range check has taken place? How do you solve that?

All I'm getting at is that if you think a little deeper at the issues at play, solving/designing a respawn system might not be as simple as you seem to think it is. I don't think I've ever seen a game that has respawns ever get it totally right.
Teo Sep 5, 2020 @ 8:39am 
Originally posted by still__alive:
Originally posted by N30C:
Seriously i should never spawn DIRECTLY ONTOP of an enemy this is rediculous. Basic range checks before allowing a spawn point to spawn some one have been around for over 3 decades lets get some of this basic stuff fixed so we can enjoy the multiplayer.

What happens, or what do you think should happen when the range check fails to find a suitable spawn location?

And what happens if the range check does it's thing correctly and picks your spawn location, but in the process of spawning you, the information the range check had available changes - in other words someone moves inside of the range AFTER the range check has taken place? How do you solve that?

All I'm getting at is that if you think a little deeper at the issues at play, solving/designing a respawn system might not be as simple as you seem to think it is. I don't think I've ever seen a game that has respawns ever get it totally right.

What you are describing can not happen unless you are running the spawning and checking in different threads (Which is kinda stupid tbh and knowing the game code - it doesn't).
In case you are, then you use concurrency control mechanisms like mutexes.

This design problem is simple to fix. The problem why it has not been fixed is because it is low on the priority list as there are more severe bugs to solve.
Last edited by Teo; Sep 5, 2020 @ 8:40am
still__alive Sep 5, 2020 @ 8:54am 
Originally posted by Teo:
Originally posted by still__alive:

What happens, or what do you think should happen when the range check fails to find a suitable spawn location?

And what happens if the range check does it's thing correctly and picks your spawn location, but in the process of spawning you, the information the range check had available changes - in other words someone moves inside of the range AFTER the range check has taken place? How do you solve that?

All I'm getting at is that if you think a little deeper at the issues at play, solving/designing a respawn system might not be as simple as you seem to think it is. I don't think I've ever seen a game that has respawns ever get it totally right.

What you are describing can not happen unless you are running the spawning and checking in different threads (Which is kinda stupid tbh and knowing the game code - it doesn't).
In case you are, then you use concurrency control mechanisms like mutexes.

This design problem is simple to fix. The problem why it has not been fixed is because it is low on the priority list as there are more severe bugs to solve.

Maybe I'm not describing it clearly enough.

What if all the "good" spawn locations to choose from have an enemy inside the range? Should the player just not be spawned until there is a clear zone, or should the best spot available at the moment just be chosen? And what if an enemy was just outside of the range of the best spot that was chosen and he happened to move into it after the spawn check takes place, just as the player is spawning?

I'm not saying that you can't make the respawn system better, and since this is Taleworlds I wouldn't be surprised if they did a lackluster job with it. I'm just pointing out that I don't think every respawn system is going to be perfect and it's just something that will have to be dealt with in some types of games.

I think the higher the player count and the smaller the map sizes, the more issues any given game will have with a respawn system. I'm assuming OP is complaining about siege mode (high player count) which I'm not familiar with and I don't know how many player can be on the map and how big the maps are. Don't think any of the other modes even have respawns.
N30C Sep 5, 2020 @ 9:13am 
Originally posted by still__alive:
Originally posted by N30C:
Seriously i should never spawn DIRECTLY ONTOP of an enemy this is rediculous. Basic range checks before allowing a spawn point to spawn some one have been around for over 3 decades lets get some of this basic stuff fixed so we can enjoy the multiplayer.

What happens, or what do you think should happen when the range check fails to find a suitable spawn location?

And what happens if the range check does it's thing correctly and picks your spawn location, but in the process of spawning you, the information the range check had available changes - in other words someone moves inside of the range AFTER the range check has taken place? How do you solve that?

All I'm getting at is that if you think a little deeper at the issues at play, solving/designing a respawn system might not be as simple as you seem to think it is. I don't think I've ever seen a game that has respawns ever get it totally right.

This is easily solved by having 24 - 36 spawn points. The maps are HUGE theres no reason for this. Iv made multiple games and mods in unreal engine years ago and this was a thing then that had been figured out just fine. Just seems odd that they would have it out this far along with out it given that its been in alpha since what 2012 ?
N30C Sep 5, 2020 @ 9:15am 
it is a very fun game aside from the lack of a spawn check
still__alive Sep 5, 2020 @ 9:16am 
Originally posted by N30C:
Originally posted by still__alive:

What happens, or what do you think should happen when the range check fails to find a suitable spawn location?

And what happens if the range check does it's thing correctly and picks your spawn location, but in the process of spawning you, the information the range check had available changes - in other words someone moves inside of the range AFTER the range check has taken place? How do you solve that?

All I'm getting at is that if you think a little deeper at the issues at play, solving/designing a respawn system might not be as simple as you seem to think it is. I don't think I've ever seen a game that has respawns ever get it totally right.

This is easily solved by having 24 - 36 spawn points. The maps are HUGE theres no reason for this. Iv made multiple games and mods in unreal engine years ago and this was a thing then that had been figured out just fine. Just seems odd that they would have it out this far along with out it given that its been in alpha since what 2012 ?

Doesn't siege mode support about 100 players though? If so, one team alone can cover 36 spawn points.
Teo Sep 5, 2020 @ 9:20am 
Originally posted by still__alive:
Originally posted by Teo:

What you are describing can not happen unless you are running the spawning and checking in different threads (Which is kinda stupid tbh and knowing the game code - it doesn't).
In case you are, then you use concurrency control mechanisms like mutexes.

This design problem is simple to fix. The problem why it has not been fixed is because it is low on the priority list as there are more severe bugs to solve.

Maybe I'm not describing it clearly enough.

What if all the "good" spawn locations to choose from have an enemy inside the range? Should the player just not be spawned until there is a clear zone, or should the best spot available at the moment just be chosen? And what if an enemy was just outside of the range of the best spot that was chosen and he happened to move into it after the spawn check takes place, just as the player is spawning?

I'm not saying that you can't make the respawn system better, and since this is Taleworlds I wouldn't be surprised if they did a lackluster job with it. I'm just pointing out that I don't think every respawn system is going to be perfect and it's just something that will have to be dealt with in some types of games.

I think the higher the player count and the smaller the map sizes, the more issues any given game will have with a respawn system. I'm assuming OP is complaining about siege mode (high player count) which I'm not familiar with and I don't know how many player can be on the map and how big the maps are. Don't think any of the other modes even have respawns.
I will give you a general answer
First of all. You should be always spawning the player first, since the player is relative point that determines where things should be (Assuming we are talking about dynamic spawn system).

Second, you should do visibility checks based on which you chose a spot where there is an intersecting point between the player and the chosen spawn point - that prevents the enemies from being spawned in the visual cone of the player.

Third you should be doing spawns based on a minimum range - which shouldn't be too close to avoid enemies from popping up from random points out of nowhere.

In case for whatever reason the player is not spawning first, you do the second point, but reverse it and check for spots to spawn the player.

In case of Bannerlord - neither of these are a problem because spawn point for both teams are pre-determined by the map. The only thing I would do is take the enemy spawn area, determine whether the player is in the proximity of that area, take that distance and find a random spot based on that distance and spawn the enemies there.
This would ensure that the enemies do not spawn on top of the player when he is at their spawn point.

Or an even better solution would be creating an alternative spawn point outside the map bounds and make the AI come from behind the hills or something.
still__alive Sep 5, 2020 @ 9:22am 
Are we talking about spawn points in single player or in multiplayer?

Edit: I was assuming multiplayer spawn points.
Last edited by still__alive; Sep 5, 2020 @ 9:22am
Teo Sep 5, 2020 @ 9:23am 
Originally posted by still__alive:
Are we talking about spawn points in single player or in multiplayer?

Edit: I was assuming multiplayer spawn points.

Doesn't matter. One of the systems I described should work in multiplayer too.
Chocbomb Sep 5, 2020 @ 10:20am 
When i fight or defend a village i end up having this horrible fight where it starts and im almost inside the enemy troops, it takes them maybe 6 seconds before they can run to me.

I spawn inside the ♥♥♥♥ little 3 hours town thing, how did my player character decide to ride into the town to save the people and put my army at a disadvantage and make the village the target of a huge war spot and there is maybe a small area nearby that troops could go, because if i try to mvoe my troops farther away it puts a cross over the flad place spot or tells me im out of battle area and will end the battle in 10 seconds and counts down.

Village fights are the worst of the worst combat.
Alot of this game is so sucky, im not sure how the people above like the game in its current, unless they never played warband and have never seen this stuff before, i mean the game is a copy paste of warband with way less options atm.
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Date Posted: Sep 4, 2020 @ 9:57pm
Posts: 13