Toxic, angry and hateful criticism?

[Mad_House]

This game is 100% better than I expected, and gets better with every update.

I'd say "I don't understand the angry comments," but I do understand the angry comments - some people are still on the boat that this game should be everything that Warband was not. I'd like to see boats, myself, but I can wait for a DLC for that because Taleworlds delivered - the bottom line is this game earned it's positive reception, and the angry, hostile banter is completely useless to make someone in control like Callum or others see your side.

Calling this game "scam" or "garbage" or "reeeeeeeeeee" whatever; it's pointless, doesn't reflect reality, and won't contribute a drop to progress. Want changes? Try not to be so toxic, be concise, and post actual feedback on the official forums. Otherwise, delete your posts and get out. All this toxic garbage keeps them from responding.

[Mr. Bitches]

This game kinda sucks ass but yeah it's not worth freaking out over

[voidCaster]

Originally posted by Scrotum Possum Quantum Rectum:

This game is 100% better than I expected, and gets better with every update.

I'd say "I don't understand the angry comments," but I do understand the angry comments - some people are still on the boat that this game should be everything that Warband was not. I'd like to see boats, myself, but I can wait for a DLC for that because Taleworlds delivered - the bottom line is this game earned it's positive reception, and the angry, hostile banter is completely useless to make someone in control like Callum or others see your side.

Calling this game "scam" or "garbage" or "reeeeeeeeeee" whatever; it's pointless, doesn't reflect reality, and won't contribute a drop to progress. Want changes? Try not to be so toxic, be concise, and post actual feedback on the official forums. Otherwise, delete your posts and get out. All this toxic garbage keeps them from responding.

+1

My mouse button is stuck in auto-click mode. It just keeps +1ing

[The Overlander]

i get it i would love more people to give valid constructive criticism instead of saying stuff like uuuuh this is a scam uuuuuuh tw sucks they are criminal ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥ who stole our money uuuuuuh this game unfinished its ♥♥♥♥ uuuuuh no mod tools uuuuuuhhh STOP this was all adressed game's early access if you dont want to play an imcomplete game or somehow expect a complete game on EARLY ACCESS dont buy it yet and wait god theres like a billion games out there and theres always modded warband go play that until this is finished

[Olek]

While people continue to praise this kind of practice they will continue to demand your money before you even know what your getting.

[cybersbe]

You are absolutely right.

It's true that the Early Access label does not render a game immune to criticism. In fact, I would go far as to say criticism is actually ENCOURAGED with Early Access games so that the devs get feedback on what needs to be improved.

The issue comes when we get jerks who clearly have no desire to help the devs, and just want to ♥♥♥♥ on them.

[Mad_House]

Originally posted by Olek:

While people continue to praise this kind of practice they will continue to demand your money before you even know what your getting.

This game was going to go one of two ways. To the garbage, or showing promise. It showed promise. I wouldn't have rewarded them with my purchase had the game not shown promise. People were pissed that it was going to be lowly early access - but it still turned out to be a pretty good game, worth the discount I was getting.

I get it that most early access is trash - some games do pull through though, and some of us don't need to waste time looking at everything broad-spectrum as a negative. The place for that is called "politics."

[phily]

It's funny people whine about it not coming out, then they do an early access release that you don't have to buy and we still have the usual entitled toxic whiny gamer ♥♥♥♥.

[Xyebane]

While i don't agree with your premise, I do agree with your conclusion.

I never played warband, and so there is no way that i could have expected bannerlord to be everything warband wasn't. I think a lot of the anger comes from the fact that for many people the game is simply not in a playable state. That goes far beyond "learn 2 early access". The main quest, character progression, the economy, diplomacy; none of these core and required systems are functionally implemented yet.

All that said, I agree that "bannerlord sucks/scam" posts are useless. Just as "early access" posts are useless. Criticism and feedback should be constructive, but they are also warranted. We shouldn't just pretend bannerlord is in a good state just because we want to believe it is. All that said, the 1.4.x patches have given me hope that things are improving.

[Roz Britanicus]

Originally posted by Xyebane:

While i don't agree with your premise, I do agree with your conclusion.

I never played warband, and so there is no way that i could have expected bannerlord to be everything warband wasn't. I think a lot of the anger comes from the fact that for many people the game is simply not in a playable state. That goes far beyond "learn 2 early access". The main quest, character progression, the economy, diplomacy; none of these core and required systems are functionally implemented yet.

All that said, I agree that "bannerlord sucks/scam" posts are useless. Just as "early access" posts are useless. Criticism and feedback should be constructive, but they are also warranted. We shouldn't just pretend bannerlord is in a good state just because we want to believe it is. All that said, the 1.4.x patches have given me hope that things are improving.

Nail head you hit it.
I would like to see improvements not just balance and a crash fix. What they have done with the clan page is brilliant. But the game for me feels bare . I love it and want it to grow and that shouldn't involve mods to get it there. I don't regret buying it at all, lets see what the next patches bring i think they will be great.

[madracc00n]

If u sell alpha version of ur game with 10% content being finished and tonns of bugs for 50$ u should be rdy for people to get angry.

[Badshot Bob]

Seeing the early access label told me exactly what I'm getting. An incomplete product I just paid to test with or without the promise of said product being completed.

Same basic deal when I got mount and blade back in the day, on their website where I was honestly surprised random charges didn't start popping up lol. It was nowhere near done, and got better and better with every update. Then came warband, which my brother bought for me. When I first played it, it was a buggy upgrade to regular mount and blade but as before, it got better with each update. I am so far seeing the same thing happening here, and it's shaping up nicely.

Give it time and this game is gonna blow your socks off, if not the base game; then the mods that follow will do it.

[Swirler]

Originally posted by Scrotum Possum Quantum Rectum:

This game is 100% better than I expected, and gets better with every update.

100% better?
You must be in the honeymoon phase. Sure there's lots of things to like about the game, but lets not pretend it doesn't have issues. You'll notice them when you play the game for a while. I'll outline them at the bottom in case you're not familiar with what might be missing.
Some spoilers ahead for people who aren't used to it yet.

Originally posted by Scrotum Possum Quantum Rectum:

I'd say "I don't understand the angry comments," but I do understand the angry comments - some people are still on the boat that this game should be everything that Warband was not. I'd like to see boats, myself, but I can wait for a DLC for that because Taleworlds delivered - the bottom line is this game earned it's positive reception, and the angry, hostile banter is completely useless to make someone in control like Callum or others see your side.

A lot of early access titles ride the high of promises about making a cool game and all the players get excited.
If they can't deliver on those promises you'll see the reviews turn against them.

I've personally withheld judgement until I see some more progress but I'm leaning toward a negative review at present. We'll have to wait and see what they do with the game and how much their roadmap is accurate or no.

Originally posted by Scrotum Possum Quantum Rectum:

Calling this game "scam" or "garbage" or "reeeeeeeeeee" whatever; it's pointless, doesn't reflect reality, and won't contribute a drop to progress. Want changes? Try not to be so toxic, be concise, and post actual feedback on the official forums. Otherwise, delete your posts and get out. All this toxic garbage keeps them from responding.

It doesn't reflect your reality, but it relfects a lot of other peoples.
The price is a big deterrent, for a game in early access it will take flak for that alone.
Even Rimworld got flak for never going on sale while in early access and that game turned out great and had a very smooth development process for the most part.

This game is asking nearly double the price of Rimworld...That's a lot to ask people for an early access title.


Now on to those features that are missing or incomplete.
1. Perks mostly do nothing. Only a handful actually work. Although levelling the skills still gives a passive bonus.For a roleplay game this is not promising.
2. Diplomacy is completely absent. War/peace is not diplomacy.
3. Fief management is just a glorified clicker game at the moment. It has very little impact on the game and the player sees very few changes for what they invest in capturing one.
4. Even being granted a fief is a challenge. Many times i'll siege a city and not even be on the ballot for the vote. Which is almost always heavily skewed toward 1 person, rendering the entire "vote" pointless.
5. Ruling your own kingdom is an exercise in frustration at present. The devs are aware of this and it's commonly repeated, to not even try it. More missing content there.
6. Siege battles are plagued with bugs and FPS drops. AI pathing is still being worked on so they even bother to use the ladders or break down the second gate.
7. Formations are largely irrelevant. Square/circle formations are actively bad.
8. AI infantry/cavalry don't seem to use their shields properly.
9. Archers and missiles still do huge amounts of damage to well armoured units, further hampering infantry.
10. Quests are horrible. a lot of loading screens and confirmations that are entirely useless. I will just straight up ignore quests like "family feud" or "find my daughter". "Company of trouble is just really irritating as well, you're reliant on passing some RNG checks for convincing a lord to take on these troops who steel items from you. It's not actually represented to the player what specific items they steel either?
11. Mid-late game content is entirely lacking. Once you have a few fiefs and a company of soldiers there's nothing to do except fight people. It gets very dull. And you don't even get rewarded for taking fiefs because the nation you fight for just doesn't seem to care about your efforts.
12. Player actions in the world are not responded to. They are working on improving this i'm sure but right now it's just not there. You can rescue several imprisoned lords and receive no relation bonus with them. There's no unique dialogue for it either.
13. Barter system with lords is very poor. There's no clear indication what relations gain you'll get for gifting them items. asking them to join your faction tends to result in them asking for everything you own.
14. Lords defect very quickly. Assuming you do somehow manage to convince a lord to defect to your faction they will often flip to another one not long afterward. Mercenary companies are very bad for this.
15. The roleplay part of the game just isn't there. You can "speak" to people but there's nothing to say or discuss. Lords don't seem to respond to recent events or wars. Even warband would have some comments on how the wars are progressing.
16. Every update brings big changes to diplomacy or the economy. And they're not always effective either. It's good they're looking at these things but it's hard to not say "do they even play their own game?" with every update. Nerfs to workshop income and tournaments. in one particularly disastrous update they even totally crashed the economy. partly due to the weird prosperity mechanics.
17. Prosperity is a measure of how many people are in a settlement. The more people the more money the settlement has. And the more food they consume. The only problem is, if the prosperity gets too high it can destroy food gain, starving the population (prosperity) and starving the garrison. But if prosperity gets too low the towns actually run out of money. I've often come across some places that have only 10k dinars in some particularly bad cases.
18. The economy as a whole is very fragile and they keep tinkering with it, which is expected but it gives the impression they genuinely don't know what they're doing with it. Every single change like upping prices of horses means the game becomes harder to enjoy or play.
19. Combat is actually pretty fun, presumably they lifted most mechanics from previous games and altered them a little. WHich is fine. BUUUUUT.
A Spears are terrible. They don't do what they should, and with the new formations they "should" be more effective vs cavalry right? wrong. They're actually worse than infantry using any other kind of melee weapon.
B No auto-block option. A lot of players do not have the dexterity or reaction time to play with the new blocking mechanics, as fun as they are. It's not even an option.
C Shields do not show all their stats. In the inventory screen they only show hp and speed. but they don't show "coverage" which was present in warband. it represents the total area the shield can protect. And it's not even there? It's the most important stat.
D missile weapons are a little too powerful still. Armour is not properly represented.
20. Lack of variety in maps. After a while you begin to notice there's not that many maps that represent the villages and terrain you're fighting in. There's plenty of towns though! only there's no reason to even walk around them.
21. The maps that are complete look great, honestly they do. But there's no reason to bother walking around and talk to people. The roleplay is absent.
22. When you want to talk to a specific dignitary or noble the game loads the ENTIRE TOWN. No I just want like, a small text to pop up to accept their quest and move on. Why bring in extra loading screens that aren't necessary?
23. Multiplayer. I personally haven't touched it but the community seem to be dwindling. It seems abandoned, outside some minor balance changes they haven't done much to help them.
24. Also pro-chinese admins banning people was an issue for multiplayer. Is that still a thing? idk not worth the drama. Maybe that's why no one wants to play multiplayer.
25. Relationships with NPCS. from marriage to basic party interactions there is nothing there. "ItS EaRlY AcCeSs" is no excuse for a lack of basic content here. They've had years of development time and months of public release. They need a kick up the buttocks to get things moving here. Basic discussions and conversations is not some wild new concept for this game publisher/developers/whoever else is affiliated.
26. Basic functionality is limited in some cases, You have to reset custom formations in your party every single time you load the game. You can't upgrade party members stats even if you talk to them on the world map. So you have to
disband their party (good luck replacing all their soldiers and have fun with the admin of dealing with them if you decide to put them in your party)
Play a game of hide and seek on the worldmap to find what random settlement they've decided to head toward once disbanded.
Then you can find them take them into your party. And only then you can upgrade their skills some of which don't even have working perks!
27. Balance between different units is not great. Horsemen seem to cost as much maintenance as units of the same tier....So the khuzaits have a huge advantage on the world map. I think this is why they upped the price of horses. We'll see if that even helps though.
28. Auto-resolve is still terrible to use. There's always the risk you lose a very high tier troop to like 5 looters when you have nearly 200 men.
29. This means you have to manually fight EVERY. SINGLE. BATTLE. Do you know how much time I lose to fighting pointless small parties just to upgrade my recruits so they don't insta die in the next real battle?
Cos I don't but it's too damn much.
30. Options for fighting battles in auto-resolve are very limited. For such a useful mechanic they've done next to nothing with it. You can't set up ambushes, you can't poison the enemy army supplies in a siege. you can't send out scouts to find out information about them...
31. I could continue ragging on the game issues. but those i've mentioned here are but a brief summary of some of the more glaring problems. I apologise if I missed out any.
but I just also wanted to say, modders have solved a lot of these issues in various ways. And it always strikes me as odd that some part time unpaid nobody can fix the game in ways the players want that the developers haven't even mentioned.
Sure the developers can only work on so much but it's still kind of sad to see the modders fixing basic lack of functionality that the developers seem to overlook.
...................................
TLDR
You'll notice these issues over time. You can still enjoy the game for what it is. But I believe there are valid reasons to criticise the game and how it's being developed by those in charge. Whether it's the devs or their superiors someone is dropping the ball.

There's plenty more I haven't even mentioned but they're out there. Along with the huge list of bugs the game still has. Sieges are the worst for them.
Units glitching into and out of terrain, those god awful fences that seem to stop horses like a steel barrier.
Then there's the players who can't even load the game due to some other issues...

And you folk come along and pretend these things don't even matter. That the only thing missing is peace and harmony in the forums....
Like some kind of dictatorship, just push all the people who complain away and it's all happy and fine. Shiny happy people.

[giangole]

if they promise 100 and after 7-8 years they show you an early access that is probably around 30. would you be mad? Up to you.

[Señor T]

Originally posted by Scrotum Possum Quantum Rectum:

Calling this game "scam" or "garbage" or "reeeeeeeeeee" whatever; it's pointless, doesn't reflect reality, and won't contribute a drop to progress. Want changes? Try not to be so toxic, be concise, and post actual feedback on the official forums. Otherwise, delete your posts and get out. All this toxic garbage keeps them from responding.

Who t.f. are you to tell anyone to get out? I'm equally sick of all the bootlickers on the forums, so what? Want constructive criticism? Here it is:

* Releasing a game at full price, knowing that large chunks of it are still unfinished and nearly every imaginable aspect of the game has some sort of a bug or glitch was a d**k move. It shows a severe lack of professional competence, professional ethics and due care. It would be beneficial to never f**king do that again.

How's that for constructive?

Here's some more:
* Rather than focusing on "fixed a rare bug", "fixed a rare crash" or "changed caravan income", it would be more beneficial to the core gameplay and overall enjoyment of the game if you focused most of your resources to actually finishing it. For example, the main storyline, skills/perks, companions, interaction with NPCs (there's almost none), diplomacy (there's almost none), actual quests (not the current sh** pile that is "follow that caravan for some time" or "go to the other village and talk to a guy"), etc.

[[BRE] Folcard de Montfort]

I agree with your post.
Edit: After reading a few posts i can only say this: It isn't finished yet, so far it's great. IMO.
Sorry you don't like bugs in an unfinished game.