I want to add "belisarius" - give me your thoughts.

[Badger BrownCoat]

I read the current in-game story as " what if Justinian hadn't survived the Nika Riots- would Theodora have been able to hold the Empire together?"...

So, by my own "reading" of it; Belisarius never would have been sent; but *bear with me*.

As I see it, the "Empire" in game - while having some "Han" references, is *mostly* the Eastern Roman (Byzantine ) Empire - in presentation -

As I see it, the lore gives the West (vlandia ) a 'free pass' - a get out of jail free card.

I read "Garios" as a Mark Anthony-
and Lucon? I can't place. Plenty of pro-patrician romans.

But- what if we re-read Garios - it claims he's a war-hero- as Belarius?

Could he *be* a warhero *precisely* because he was, before the assassination and "the poop just hit the fan"; in the process of retaking the west?
( wouldn't have same impact if the "West" was never the original capital of *this* empire, but)...
but the Empire just saying, sure, you can have the west, no big deal- in fact, here's a crown
( Dethbert's in game dialog )
- is what I mean by " get out of jail free" card.
I actually *like* most of the " give me back my legions/ Valen don't die dude" banner-story we get; but i think in this one place it's a lost opportunity- ( and an un-earned get out of jail free card )

Yeah, i'm a modder, it's something I'm considering for next project ( note to self: finsish current one first...hmmn)
- so, I'd like to get a feed-back if this "reading" and "feels like a lost opportunity"
actually ... 'tracks' so to speak, or if t only sounds good in *MY* head.

I'm also startingto wonder if anyone BUT me noticed or had any interest in the story- but- can't hurt to ask.

[Badger BrownCoat]

I'm starting to wonder:

did ANYONE read the story ; or just hit enter to skip?

[Badger BrownCoat]

there's TONS of story in the hero dialogs: nobles and companions

Here's the story:

I'm wondering: did you *catch* the story? that a good part of this is " HEy- what if Emporer Justinian *had* been killed at the Nika riots?
Would Theodrora been able to hold the Empire together?"

" ( according to the M&B wiki: the empire was destroyed by tribes.

They set this game in what is - in effect-
" the three kingdoms " era - fall of han empire.
which has endless paralells to the fall of western roman empire.

THATS the story.

If playing ina setting of "ALL HELL JUST BROKE LOOSE" isn't tthe story you want-
well; I don't think you'll like this game's setting; or much more of what this guy is writing.
Look him up; the main writer.
Look up what he did and where he was before he wrote this.

I'm wondering: did you *catch* the story? that a good part of this is " HEy- what if Emporer Justinian *had* been killed at the Nika riots?
Would Theodrora been able to hold the Empire together?"

You said if there was a story you want to see it.
That's the story. A big historical what-if. DID you see it when you played? I WAS LOVING IT.
Fall of Western Empire/ fall of Ham--> 3 kingdoms?
Great setting - for me.
Maybe it's not - for you.
And that;s okay. "
( sory , some of that is a cut and paste )

[CatMeowMeow]

Never thought about Justinian.
But still the Huns and Vikings were not really big part of the history in early Dark Ages. It is mostly contributed to Romans (Byzantines) and The Goths who took over Italian and Iberian Peninsula. All other Kingdoms later formed from ashes of Roman Empire in Central Europe.

There is no Roman Empire in here, Nor Southern Empire Rhagaea can attribute to Eastern Roman Empire Theodora.
This Bannerlord "Story" is just like plain civil war happened after the Power Vacuum.

[Badger BrownCoat]

vikings...? you mean.. the Kievan novgorod princes?
Strugia is not not (just) vikings- like the Novgorodians they are based on, they were "vikings" who were "cough" asked to rule over them by the boyars.
... you can look up the inspirations for each in the wiki or dev blogs.
The Rus- and the and the city-sates that would become "Russia" thru various iterations - were VERY MUCH a part of the Eastern Empire's history.

The Empire- particularly the eastern roman/byzantine- which is the empire we have in game; more or less-
had fought people VERY much the same as the mongols- for hundreds of years.
In fact, the Avars and their allies *tried* to take Constantinople. It broke them, they weren't a power anymore- but - in contact with people *like* the Mongols? Oh yes.
So far back we suspect the legend of "centaur" and "amazon" come from greeks meeting them.

The Empire, while clearly based on the "eastern" roman empire after the fall of the west;
(down to troop names, the riots, and Theodora ) -
is having a civil war - the kind both sides had- and one very reasonably *could* have sprung from this "what if" - if Justinian had died...
hell would have broken loose. IF they *don't* accept Theodora/ Rhaggae's claim - civil war is *exactly* what we have...
after Lucon had the Emperor assassinated I mean ?

But- bottom line is, you don't see the same historical inspirations I am;
so of course my "what ifs" and logic doesn't track-
which is fine.

If you'd like to know more about the REAL history of the inspiration for their Calradian Empire- as I understood their dev blogs, aside from the names & events:
( and what I'm using for my mods )

this MAY ? interest you -
fairly concise, good history fun if that stuff entertains you.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mT5Cv2uZgd8

Either way; even if you see it all differently; i Do thank you for the response.
You can read the story/background much differently than I and still enjoy it ;)

[CatMeowMeow]

Oh my mistake I meant Celts not Vikings, always mixing them up.

[Badger BrownCoat]

Originally posted by CatMeowMeow:

Oh my mistake I meant Celts not Vikings, always mixing them up.

well- to be fair to you; there's some mixing between them isn't there? myths at the very least, hell just had a discussion on a youtube history channel about how much the Cimbri & Teutone (germanics ) horde that marches almost to rome; is awfully "Keltoi" by the time they get there.
So, sure, why not?

And sorry -I went to "Russssssssss" - as the the discussion about the Sturgis-ians is..a touchy one as, some people really don't like the old idea the Rus were of "norse" (swede?) descent- I on't argue it either way; but we can see from the troop tree- no need to look at the blog- what inspiration the Devs used.

TLDR:
Your real point tho' was it wasn't an exact correlation, and with that, sorry to get hung on dumb history-nerd points; and with that point I absolutely agree-
if you do watch that video at some point though- you'll get my gist- the "dark age of the east" - which I think is what this game's theme is- not *just* a civilwar; much much worse things are about to happen--- "3 kingdoms" levesl of bad things- very nearly-
with the difference being, in real life the "Byzantine" / Eastern Roman empire weathered it - barely- and would be around for awhile longer- whereas, in m&B, we know they didn't.
( neither did the Han Empire ).

Anyway- by any reading of game story/ history- at least you enjoyed the background story, little secret easter eggs the writer threw here and there. <o

[Badger BrownCoat]

I just want to point out- doubt anyone cares, but:
the primary area this video is ABOUT is now called 'Turkey"
apparently it's where the developers are from and i hear the original M&B map was even more like it than this one...
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mT5Cv2uZgd8

[Syllabus]

Originally posted by Badger BrownCoat:

I read the current in-game story as " what if Justinian hadn't survived the Nika Riots- would Theodora have been able to hold the Empire together?"...

So, by my own "reading" of it; Belisarius never would have been sent; but *bear with me*.

As I see it, the "Empire" in game - while having some "Han" references, is *mostly* the Eastern Roman (Byzantine ) Empire - in presentation -

As I see it, the lore gives the West (vlandia ) a 'free pass' - a get out of jail free card.

I read "Garios" as a Mark Anthony-
and Lucon? I can't place. Plenty of pro-patrician romans.

But- what if we re-read Garios - it claims he's a war-hero- as Belarius?

Could he *be* a warhero *precisely* because he was, before the assassination and "the poop just hit the fan"; in the process of retaking the west?
( wouldn't have same impact if the "West" was never the original capital of *this* empire, but)...
but the Empire just saying, sure, you can have the west, no big deal- in fact, here's a crown
( Dethbert's in game dialog )
- is what I mean by " get out of jail free" card.
I actually *like* most of the " give me back my legions/ Valen don't die dude" banner-story we get; but i think in this one place it's a lost opportunity- ( and an un-earned get out of jail free card )

Yeah, i'm a modder, it's something I'm considering for next project ( note to self: finsish current one first...hmmn)
- so, I'd like to get a feed-back if this "reading" and "feels like a lost opportunity"
actually ... 'tracks' so to speak, or if t only sounds good in *MY* head.

I'm also startingto wonder if anyone BUT me noticed or had any interest in the story- but- can't hurt to ask.

You.

Essentially, in this lore inspired by the Eastern Empire, YOU as the player, are in the role of becoming either a Belisarius (rejuvenation of the empire), or Odoacer (destruction of the empire) or Charlesmagne (replacement with a new Empire).

So in a sense, we already have "Belisarius." You're him, if you choose to give the dragon banner to one of the pretenders to the Empire to support.

[Badger BrownCoat]

Originally posted by Syllabus:

You.

Essentially, in this lore inspired by the Eastern Empire, YOU as the player, are in the role of becoming either a Belisarius (rejuvenation of the empire), or Odoacer (destruction of the empire) or Charlesmagne (replacement with a new Empire).

So in a sense, we already have "Belisarius." You're him, if you choose to give the dragon banner to one of the pretenders to the Empire to support.

What's ... telling? a while back I'd posted, any other empire player feels lke Belisarius;
trying to keep the empire from "suiciding" ( or something to that effect)...

Doesn't dig into the other points; BUT: wow ;it really is a well- placed point (s) you made.

[Syllabus]

Originally posted by Badger BrownCoat:

Originally posted by Syllabus:

You.

Essentially, in this lore inspired by the Eastern Empire, YOU as the player, are in the role of becoming either a Belisarius (rejuvenation of the empire), or Odoacer (destruction of the empire) or Charlesmagne (replacement with a new Empire).

So in a sense, we already have "Belisarius." You're him, if you choose to give the dragon banner to one of the pretenders to the Empire to support.

What's ... telling? a while back I'd posted, any other empire player feels lke Belisarius;
trying to keep the empire from "suiciding" ( or something to that effect)...

Doesn't dig into the other points; BUT: wow ;it really is a well- placed point (s) you made.

IKR?

The Imperial faction, all use the color Purple, and are located at the approximate location of where the Byzantines were, in the map of Calradia that's sort of a warped map of Europe. (complete with the Calradic version of the Mediterranean, Baltic Sea, and even Scandinavian peninsula and Gibraltar (lol))

[CatMeowMeow]

But we have Sassanids in the South And Slavs in The North, No Island for Celts.... lol

[Badger BrownCoat]

we Don't have sasanids- we have... the arabs who - in lore for profit- in reality for PROPHET- overthrew the Sassanids... ( but either way) ( i thought anyway )
as for the Keltoi-
you mean the people that had ALL of europe to the Baltics?
the ones that we think built what would become Budapest?
THOSE Celts?

ps:
Syllabus- i was trying to mod South to look ..more purple.. I mean, tell me Rhagea *isn't* the Purple Empress?
on mine it looks blue... :( maybe just my settings.

ok, Ya'll been entirely too entertaining not getting nay "work"done- you both take care
I literally have to log off steam to not get distracted, if ya'll gonan be.. interesting and stuff.

[Straybow]

I read Garios as 'insert crisis of the third century' usurper here, particulary the mentor dialogue in world_lore_strings.xml

Most men do not break with tradition lightly. Gario does. But he does not grasp that when he makes his daring moves, it is no longer so daring, and his rivals will soon imitate him. And thus, the unspoken contracts that have tied together our Empire fall apart.

You could say the various late republic warlords are cut from a similar cloth but since the role of emperor is well and truly established I go for third century.

[CatMeowMeow]

Originally posted by Straybow:

I read Garios as 'insert crisis of the third century' usurper here, particulary the mentor dialogue in world_lore_strings.xml

Most men do not break with tradition lightly. Gario does. But he does not grasp that when he makes his daring moves, it is no longer so daring, and his rivals will soon imitate him. And thus, the unspoken contracts that have tied together our Empire fall apart.

Yeah I Think he was more like a figure from Crisis of the third century instead of early dark age.

[Badger BrownCoat]

Originally posted by Straybow:

I read Garios as 'insert crisis of the third century' usurper here, particulary the mentor dialogue in world_lore_strings.xml

Most men do not break with tradition lightly. Gario does. But he does not grasp that when he makes his daring moves, it is no longer so daring, and his rivals will soon imitate him. And thus, the unspoken contracts that have tied together our Empire fall apart.

You could say the various late republic warlords are cut from a similar cloth but since the role of emperor is well and truly established I go for third century.

You feel like that smells "Mark Anthony" other than time-wise?
I was thinking morph him over a bit for the OP.. ?

that you just found, I must have 1/2 remembered- hadn't looked it up yet to verify -
Hmmn...
Still thinking, make him a little less douche, a little more war hero;
and we have West "kingdom of the 3 kingdoms of the empire"
then eyeballing the lost lands "vlandia" took

Yeah Lombards- don't change your name, i KNOW WHO YOU ARE...
at this point I'm no longer talking offical M&b lore, of course.
I'm not even accusing Lucon of assassinating the emperor- yet- pulicly-
but we all know he killed Tiberius Gracchus...

but ti sounds like *some* of my logic tracks for people who read the 'history easter eggs'
- thanks Straybow- saves me looking later, you just did...

and I'm getting *more*confident on my "fantheory" so to speak of where the 'game crisis ' was really headed ( not just civil war, the conspiracies )

..but to the " 3 kingdoms"
should i just link the Nexus mod forum for it so you see what we've been up to?
More useful feedback in this thread than any other I think so far.

https://forums.nexusmods.com/index.php?/topic/8664498-mod-project-3-kingdoms-empire-sub-culture-faction-wip/

I mean why hide why i was asking?