leadership is still extremely dumb

[Krinkle]

I have literally never led an army and I never will because I keep restarting when the game gets boring and 99% of the game you don't get an army. you don't get to be the leader of a faction. You ride around trying to grind xp and leadership literally cannot be raised until the game is boring and what i consider end game.

I am leading a small squad of bandit hunters and i get nothing. I have every single food in the game and I get nothing. There is literally no reason to create a character without max leadership already because that first skill point is the only one that's even reachable.

The pointless delineation between parties and armies is dumb and I hate it.

Oh also now auto resolving v looters gets my recruits murdered so thanks for making it harder to raise troops but also pointless to lead them myself because leadership xp still doesn't, how i play the game, exist.

[TomOfFinland]

sigh.. "I want everything and I want it now". Just use cheats if it annoys you.

[Hanok]

You guys are arguing about a system currently being torn down and reworked as we speak. Just an fyi

[CromX]

Morkonan の投稿を引用：

CromX の投稿を引用：

You don’t even get leadership for leading a party of 200 or more men continually and defeating combined lord horde armies and taking castles and towns. The OP is right, leadership is poorly thought out. None of the things that benefit from leadership that you do in game benefit leadership skill.

Leading men should confer leadership. End of story.

I disagree as you're basically saying "The player should always be accumulating experience in this Skill no matter what else they're doing."

That would be an ungood and "poorly though out" mechanic. :)

The Skill as it is is fine, it's just that it needs a bit of balancing out and considering for player progression. These are "late development" sorts of things.

I also think many Skills need meaningful Perks that are reachable throughout all stages of play. And, once again, that's a "late development" sort of reward system balancing sort of thing.

You disagree that doing things that generally require leadership should not improve the leadership skill? Ok sure I think you are crazy as this is pretty stupid and not in line with any of the other skills in the game, it most definitely is not fine as is.

We should start basket weaving to improve one hand skills. Do jumping jacks to improve trade. I love your logic.

[Apples]

Leading a group of highly trained soldiers that are willing to die for you in battle i'd say qualifies you as leadership material.

[Morkonan]

Sheepify の投稿を引用：

Morkonan の投稿を引用：

I disagree as you're basically saying "The player should always be accumulating experience in this Skill no matter what else they're doing."

You mean like Riding and Athletics getting increased through simple map movement? Or Scout getting increased through simple map movement (and random "detection") of things?

It's not like you can't balance this way of raising the skill with gain rate.

There doesn't seem to be any "flat" value for any Skill activity in terms of Exp gain. In fact, it appears that there are "diminishing returns."

For some Skills to be sensible, you would usually accrue points as you did them. But, you also have the chance to use Focus points...

Think about what those do. They're multipliers. Where would you put those? On Skills you needed to.. increase the rate of return in terms of experience gain, right?

But, you do need some kind of feeling of achievement in "Skills" and through the "Perk" system as you play, right? Otherwise, it'd pretty much be worthless if it only popped up in the late-game. So... you get some Skills that are practically "default" gimme's... That's sensible as it gets you interested in the Perk system.

But, "Leadership" is a pretty important-sounding word, right? It's a "Big Deal." As such, it's more difficult to acquire and it's Perks, supposedly, are relatively more powerful.

To be sensible, the Skill/Perk system needs a good mix of these kinds of mechanics. One, a mechanic that gives all players the chance to progress fairly easily up through the middle ranks of a skill and then Skills that take more dedication, more Focus, in order to level that also have more specialized, powerful, rewards.

It's... both sorts that are needed and the difficulty of advancing through them should be relative to the power of their rewards.

PS: There's definitely a dynamic scaling of exp awards as one progresses in a Skill. That has to be considered as well. It takes much longer to progress through certain seemingly "easy Skills to progress through" than it may first appear.

[Poljanan]

This is all pointless since the devs said they are overhualing the perk system. Leadership is poorly implemented.
Why do I not gain leadership for winning a battle against an army 5x my number using a ragtag group of mercenaries?

[Althesian]

Issue is with the perks. Since most of them don't work, it essentially handicaps the player somewhat. so its pretty grindy depending on how you play. If you put an emphasis on smithing, you'll earn money by crafting Two-handed swords and defeated lords that you sign mercenary contracts with, you'll earn influence as well. being a vassal doesn't always help. You'll need more fiefs as your retinue gives you influence. influence the countries policies to gain you more influence. That's how i do it at least, now i'm swimming in influence pools than i know how to deal with.

as for training troops i agree, this is like warband again. Autoresolve is useless, and guts your elite troops. Trainer skill might need to be brought back, otherwise training troops is going to be grindy asf.

[Morkonan]

Poljanan の投稿を引用：

This is all pointless since the devs said they are overhualing the perk system. Leadership is poorly implemented.
Why do I not gain leadership for winning a battle against an army 5x my number using a ragtag group of mercenaries?

A valid sort of argument, though one could also say that you get a significantly increased bit of Renown and other standard stat rewards. "Leadership" doesn't appear to be a Skill attached to any sort of "victory" conditions. It could be... I just don't see it like that. It appears to be more of a passively gained experience from interacting with the Army mechanic.

And, in that, I do think it should sensibly be exposed to more exp-earning conditions. But, "late game" ones involving Armies and Sieges and the like.

[Poljanan]

Morkonan の投稿を引用：

Poljanan の投稿を引用：

This is all pointless since the devs said they are overhualing the perk system. Leadership is poorly implemented.
Why do I not gain leadership for winning a battle against an army 5x my number using a ragtag group of mercenaries?

A valid sort of argument, though one could also say that you get a significantly increased bit of Renown and other standard stat rewards. "Leadership" doesn't appear to be a Skill attached to any sort of "victory" conditions. It could be... I just don't see it like that. It appears to be more of a passively gained experience from interacting with the Army mechanic.

And, in that, I do think it should sensibly be exposed to more exp-earning conditions. But, "late game" ones involving Armies and Sieges and the like.

Considering you do a lot of "leading" in this game, the ways you accumulate leadership exp should be broader. Stuff like successfully holding off a siege against a superior force, managing to avoid casualties in battle, not getting knocked out in battle, managing high cohesion when leading an army, getting several successive victories in a short time frame, etc.
Of course not all feats would give the same amount of leadership but it should still give you exp.
It's pretty dumb to make leadership such a mid-game perk when leading a warband is one of the first things you do in this game.

[Teralitha]

Krinkle の投稿を引用：

I have literally never led an army and I never will because I keep restarting when the game gets boring and 99% of the game you don't get an army. you don't get to be the leader of a faction. You ride around trying to grind xp and leadership literally cannot be raised until the game is boring and what i consider end game.

I am leading a small squad of bandit hunters and i get nothing. I have every single food in the game and I get nothing. There is literally no reason to create a character without max leadership already because that first skill point is the only one that's even reachable.

The pointless delineation between parties and armies is dumb and I hate it.

Oh also now auto resolving v looters gets my recruits murdered so thanks for making it harder to raise troops but also pointless to lead them myself because leadership xp still doesn't, how i play the game, exist.

You dont realize it, but you are still just a noob at this game.