Aserai troops are bad

[Supply Side Jesus]

The key issue is that troops with shields and archers are too high in an upgrade tree. This way lower tier army gets cut down. To compound issue, desert fighting fields are all open ground - so Aserai got destroyed by comparable tier troops that include archers.

Please add shield to a lower tier of Aserai troops.

[EnStorEn]

Well the nations Aserai is based on/inspired on largely had garbage troops.

[VOLUME SHOOTER]

Aserai master archers are very good IMO and the Mamluk horse arechers are very good also, especially on sieges

[VOLUME SHOOTER]

their veteran infantry is trash tho especiially if shield hitboxes are fixed. its too little

[Badger BrownCoat]

Supply Side Jesus の投稿を引用：

The key issue is that troops with shields and archers are too high in an upgrade tree. This way lower tier army gets cut down. To compound issue, desert fighting fields are all open ground - so Aserai got destroyed by comparable tier troops that include archers.

Please add shield to a lower tier of Aserai troops.

i'm not agreeing- or disagreeing; but
I am curious- if you don't mind-
to me, bringing up "mamluks" and making them nothing but a side-grade seems a wasted opportunity...

Since i only use the Aserai as .."auxiliiaries" - ok- captured units-
i haven't payed *particular* attention to them- ( i enjoy the camel troops?)
so, figured i'd ask someone who's clearly put some thought into them...
do you find any real difference/benefit to going down the Mamluk line?
( i'm considering making them a "merc" minor faction , or something similar-
but always good to get others experience, rather than merely your own anecdotal experience-

hope you don't mind the question.

I'd have to side by side them much more than I have to have any real opinion ( aserai troops as whole I mean, compared to my other troops )
from my PoV, overall most troops seem like a pretty similar troop tree and skills-
with the exception of the odd troops that still have the wrong weapon skills, etc

[Sturmhorst]

I used the bandits as low tier troops, the ones riding with javelins, they rock (more efficient than mameluk).
Then later Khuzait and Imperial.
True, didn't use the actual asrai troops.

[VOLUME SHOOTER]

for some reason tho, maybe its just me Aserai never gets steam rolled or loses a lot of territories other than to myself.Only cities ive seen them lose in 2.5 campaigns were Has fuq

[Badger BrownCoat]

Gerry の投稿を引用：

EnStorEn の投稿を引用：

Well the nations Aserai is based on/inspired on largely had garbage troops.

"Aserai are based on the real life Arab tribes that existed before the Islamic conquests in the seventh century. One of the clans, Banu Sarran, will eventually supplant the Banu Hulyan ruling clan and form the Sarranid Sultanate 200 years later in Warband"

I know ♥♥♥♥ about Arab history but you seem to be right. Aserai need better troops nervetheless, and I'm especially talking about their lack of competent shield infantry. From what I remember, their Guard axe is also poor against heavy armour.

my knowledge on the details is fuzzy-
not my forte - but my understanding is it was the Arabic tribes , finally united by Islam; that put an end to the weakened but NO JOKE sassinids:
"These factors contributed to the decisive Sassanid defeat at the Battle of al-Qādisiyyah. The Persians, who had only one generation before conquered Egypt and Asia Minor, lost decisive battles when nimble, lightly armed Arabs accustomed to skirmishes and desert warfare attacked them. The Arab squadrons defeated the Persian army in several more battles culminating in the Battle of Nahāvand, the last major battle of the Sassanids. The Sassanid dynasty came to an end with the death of Yazdegerd III in 651."
yeah anyone can quote that- i just checked it -but it was more or less what I was thinking...

But, a minor point to quibble- you have the right of it here:

Aserai need better troops nervetheless, and I'm especially talking about their lack of competent shield infantry. From what I remember, their Guard axe is also poor against heavy armour.

reason i asked upstairs is, I was ignorant they lacked good shield infantry- hell i just realized from another post, the unit i like is a minor faction *not* Aserai anyway..ooops

[Badger BrownCoat]

Hilary Banks の投稿を引用：

for some reason tho, maybe its just me Aserai never gets steam rolled or loses a lot of territories other than to myself.Only cities ive seen them lose in 2.5 campaigns were Has fuq

yeha- ame experience in my playthroughs so far-
BUt i put that up to their position on map; and the auto-resolve which cares nothing for actual troop stats or much but tier as I understand it.
Same with the Khanate in my experience- neither has quite the number of *likely* attackers.
---that sound about right?

[VOLUME SHOOTER]

Badger BrownCoat の投稿を引用：

Hilary Banks の投稿を引用：

for some reason tho, maybe its just me Aserai never gets steam rolled or loses a lot of territories other than to myself.Only cities ive seen them lose in 2.5 campaigns were Has fuq

yeha- ame experience in my playthroughs so far-
BUt i put that up to their position on map; and the auto-resolve which cares nothing for actual troop stats or much but tier as I understand it.
Same with the Khanate in my experience- neither has quite the number of *likely* attackers.
---that sound about right?

Yea, The Khanate, and Vlandia are usually the factions with the most territory. NOrth and southern empire usally only have 1/2 cities with DEATH stacks that keep the ai from attacking

[Halfgeek]

Go with Aserai archers and mounted cav and later horse archers in the upgrade. They will dominate against most foes in the open field.

Exactly like Khuzaits! Don't rely on their infantry.

[Badger BrownCoat]

Hilary Banks の投稿を引用：

Yea, The Khanate, and Vlandia are usually the factions with the most territory. NOrth and southern empire usally only have 1/2 cities with DEATH stacks that keep the ai from attacking

Sounds about right to me...
well- almost- in both playthroughs where i - played a good bit- flag or no flag ( drag-on banner ) - the empire gets united by ..deathstacks? snowballs? ...
never stays " 3 kingdoms" for long
I had *thought* Sturgis would be safe-ish , but every time i see them get gobbled - i think they *start* at war with Vlandia which can't help- and yes, vlandia also has that "edge" position that seems to favor this...
I joked elsewhere that playing empire i always feel like bellisarius trying to retake all the territory they lost because they can't quit acting like ( to quote ) " kids with scissors running around the swimming pool"... sigh.

[Hanok]

Hilary Banks の投稿を引用：

for some reason tho, maybe its just me Aserai never gets steam rolled or loses a lot of territories other than to myself.Only cities ive seen them lose in 2.5 campaigns were Has fuq

Same here, the north,center and west portions of map are always in flux.

[Badger BrownCoat]

Halfgeek の投稿を引用：

Go with Aserai archers and mounted cav and later horse archers in the upgrade. They will dominate against most foes in the open field.

Exactly like Khuzaits! Don't rely on their infantry.

Thanks for the response, sorry we're on multi-track here-
well, what you said is at least consistent with that bit i just read re: the arabs fast out-skirmishing the sassy-nids... ( the historical inspiration for aserai understood as the arab tribes except not united by Islamic )

... if you play aserai- any thought on my mamluk question up there a few?

[Hanok]

Badger BrownCoat の投稿を引用：

Halfgeek の投稿を引用：

Go with Aserai archers and mounted cav and later horse archers in the upgrade. They will dominate against most foes in the open field.

Exactly like Khuzaits! Don't rely on their infantry.

Thanks for the response, sorry we're on multi-track here-

well, what you said is at least consistent with that bit i just read re: fast out-skirmishing the sassy-nids...

if you play aserai- any thought on my mamluk question up there a few?

The history of the Mamluk's is one of the greatest true stories in history. Kids torn from their family's and forced to become solders. Solders become elite force winning many of the conflicts they were involved in.

Then kill/cspture their 'masters' and rule all of Egypt. I think the Mamluk Cav should have the highest sword and shield skill in the game, of all the horseman that is.

[Badger BrownCoat]

dsheatz7771 の投稿を引用：

The history of the Mamluk's is one of the greatest true stories in history. Kids torn from their family's and forced to become solders. Solders become elite force winning many of the conflicts they were involved in.

Then kill/cspture their 'masters' and rule all of Egypt. I think the Mamluk Cav should have the highest sword and shield skill in the game, of all the horseman that is.

Well, my original question was this:

I am curious- if you don't mind-
to me, bringing up "mamluks" and making them nothing but a side-grade seems a wasted opportunity...

Since i only use the Aserai as .."auxiliiaries" - ok- captured units-
i haven't payed *particular* attention to them- ( i enjoy the camel troops?)
so, figured i'd ask someone who's clearly put some thought into them...
do you find any real difference/benefit to going down the Mamluk line?
( i'm considering making them a "merc" minor faction , or something similar-)

I find their story- and overthrow of the Abbasids - and ending Mongol adventures in the region--- all fascinating- seems wasted to be *just* a side-grade on the basic troop tree.