[Mod Request?] Actual Shield Wall?

[Erabior]

So currently in game the shield-wall just makes the dudes standing there with shields up, block arrows and just take blows, they really don't attack except for the one or two times that a dude breaks Shield wall and attacks. what I want to know is if we can make an actual Shield wall like an actual Dane or Saxon shield-wall (much like we see from “The last Kingdom” TV Show). All in all I think it'd be really cool if we could have a Dane Shield wall or even a Dane Shield wall in circle to form some sort of Dome tortoise formation. I'm just trying to see if something like this is even possible so if anybody knows it'd be great thank you all.

[Dracon]

Publicado originalmente por Muscarine:

I don't think it's a reasonable request, for balance purpose.

Shield wall is currently a defensive formation, that alone means your infantry will last twice as long as they should if overwhelmed.

If on top of it they were allowed to consistently trade blows, there would be absolutely no reason at all to use any other formation.

If you need your infantry to hit back, give them a charge order.

Currently shield wall is already the best answer in 95% of cases, even against siege engines since crush through isn't implemented so boulders bounce of shields.
I really don't think it needs a buff.

Wait... People use other formations than shield wall on their infantry? No... I'm being serious here... Shield wall is actually the one you want to use in order to defend your archers...

[Muscarine]

Yea i think pretty much everyone goes infantry > F3 F2, archers > F3 F3 and then direction orders.

[Erabior]

Publicado originalmente por Rose:

Publicado originalmente por Erabior:

omfg how many times do i have to say it, im not defending the show. what im defending is that it is A FORM of shield wall. im not saying thats what it is, has been, and always will be for all of history, becasue, yes, you are right, there have been different forms of shield walls. furthermore i LITERALLY linked the battle, the acutal battle, the REAL LIFE battle, in which this formation was used

Where's the actual picture of the shield wall in the battle? From that time. Oh right all you've shown is a Dramatization of a battle oh right right

im only referring to the show because it has a clear representation of how what i want in the mod works and what it looked like. im sorry there is little left in terms of pictures about these viking era battles what with all the raiding. all im saying is, this cannot have come from nowhere, and to say this formation was NEVER used is blatant ignorance, regardless of weather or not it worked, it is HIGHLY likely to have been used. ESPECIALLY because the anglo saxons that most likely used it adapted their fighting style from the romans. who as you bring up soo much loved to use their testudos

[The Dairy Devil]

Publicado originalmente por Drath:

what about the spartan or greek hoplites there phalanx maybe what the OP is thinking as it does have a wall of shields but with the spears have the range to attack many people think that is the shield wall or roman testudo was a form of shield wall could also be wanting to see somthing more like that.

We need more of these kind of formations and they need to be properly effective.

Heck the game is built to give you enough individual commands to form a proper triplex acies (if that's your thing) but it's just not developed deep enough.

[MΛRCUS HΞLIUS]

The shield wall works perfectly fine in my opinion, the enemy shoot at them and can't do much damage, then the enemy charge into your shield wall and your guys do pretty well at killing them and staying alive...

If you want to march forward in shield wall formation, you can.

[Rose]

Since you like using The Last Kingdom as a reference.
https://aelarsen.wordpress.com/2017/11/26/the-last-kingdom-testudos/amp/

https://history.stackexchange.com/questions/30970/how-tight-were-shield-walls-in-saxon-england
Go to number 5
https://www.google.com/amp/s/screenrant.com/last-kingdom-historically-accurate-correct-fake/amp/

"A shield wall was a "wall of shields" formed by soldiers standing in formation shoulder to shoulder, holding their shields so that they abut or overlap(Side to side not stacked) Each soldier benefits from the protection of his neighbours' shields as well as his own."

[BiscuitsnGravy]

Publicado originalmente por Dracon:

I've seen my troops do two kind of shield walls:

One where they just lined up and raised their shields. Another where they combined it with the square formation. They don't do turtles though (Cause there is no command for it)

Publicado originalmente por Redcoat-Mic:

That kind of shield wall would be utterly useless, you're asking for a shield wall that doesn't just stand there but the Last Kingdom shield walls would just be a rather silly wall without much ability to kill the enemy.

A shield wall is just interlocking shields, not some weird makeshift barricade.

The Last Kingdom basically does a weird combination of turtle and shield wall. Oh and since we are talking Last Kingdom, it is questionable whether Vikings even used the shield wall. We know the Saxons did it, but the Vikings? Probably not.


That being said, there are testuedo variants other than the one shown above that look way closer to what The Last Kingdom does, the Main difference being that they stick out spears.

The Hoplite shield wall is pretty much what we get in Bannerlord, although without spears. (Then again, I barely use spear wielding soldiers, so no idea...)

Their both the same thing. The one from the TV show is just on a larger scale since their are more people. That front line testubo is the correct wall for the Front line.

[Erabior]

Publicado originalmente por Rose:

Since you like using The Last Kingdom as a reference.
https://aelarsen.wordpress.com/2017/11/26/the-last-kingdom-testudos/amp/

https://history.stackexchange.com/questions/30970/how-tight-were-shield-walls-in-saxon-england
Go to number 5
https://www.google.com/amp/s/screenrant.com/last-kingdom-historically-accurate-correct-fake/amp/

"A shield wall was a "wall of shields" formed by soldiers standing in formation shoulder to shoulder, holding their shields so that they abut or overlap(Side to side not stacked) Each soldier benefits from the protection of his neighbours' shields as well as his own."

yeah your right, the danes didnt use it, ive said time and time again, Anglo Saxon..... Anglo Saxon..... Anglo Saxon..... what part of Anglo Saxon means Dane?

[Erabior]

oh look it says the same thing right there in the article.

Publicado originalmente por The Last Kingdom: 5 Things That Are Historically Accurate (And 5 Things That Are Completely Wrong):

the depiction of the Saxons' unfamiliarity with the shield wall and Uhtred's later training of the Saxon forces in shield wall tactics is also historically inaccurate. In reality, the Saxons used the shield wall as a standard tactic for centuries, and Uhtred's father's forces would not have been taken by surprise by the Danes as was the case in the series' premiere.

[Erabior]

Publicado originalmente por Rose:

The point is the way in The shows isn't how it was done.
Unub you know ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥

1) this is my thread you mongoloid im not unsubbing
2) you have no evidence that it was never done so it could have been done
3) I have no evidence that it was done but it could have been done

literally all either of us have is speculations on weather or not it was done this way, the only thing we agree on is that the danes did not use that kind of shield wall. accept the fact that you nor i was alive back then and there is little if not no evidence to support EITHER claim. i am and always have been arguing the possibility that this formation could have existed, you have and continue to argue that it never has, and for that i name you ignorant beyond all comprehension

furthermore that article has no cited sources, so either Screen Rant has an on staff Historian, The article is plagiarism, or it is all conjecture

[Dracon]

Guys, calm yourselves, there is no reason to insult each other over a mod request.... I've seen a Byzantine empire recreation of a shield wall that looked almost exactly like the one in Last Kingdom, and it looks pretty solid there.

http://byzantinemilitary.blogspot.com/2017/04/the-byzantine-testudo-and-shield-wall.html

There if you build it like that, it looks solid. if you do it like in LK, it's just protecting the first line alone from arrows (which makes 0 sense). There is also no real reason why a unit in turtle formation can't hunker down to protect their feet.

There are also pictures of riot units employing a really similar shield wall to the one in LK, so yeah one can't really proof it never happened. (Not meaning I don't find the LK one lacking, due to the absence of spears)

The thing Bannerlord's shield wall lacks is the overlapping of shields.

[SilverstarGaming]

Publicado originalmente por Dracon:

Guys, calm yourselves, there is no reason to insult each other over a mod request... I've seen a Byzantine empire recreation of a shield wall that looked almost exactly like the one in the Last Kingdom, and it looks pretty solid there.

http://byzantinemilitary.blogspot.com/2017/04/the-byzantine-testudo-and-shield-wall.html

There if you build it like that, it looks solid. if you do it like in LK, it's just protecting the first line alone from arrows (which makes 0 sense). There is also no real reason why a unit in turtle formation can't hunker down to protect their feet.

There are also pictures of riot units employing a really similar shield wall to the one in LK, so yeah one can't really prove it never happened. (Not meaning I don't find the LK one lacking, due to the absence of spears)

The thing Bannerlord's shield wall lacks is the overlapping of shields.

I don't know how you found this, but thank you. I've been looking for that image for so damn long, I almost forgot it existed. In The Last Kingdom, it could very well have been used that way because of the lack of archers (which is historically accurate). You're correct that there is a lack of spears in that formation as well, and a plethora of swords. Which, to be fair, were not common unless the soldier was one of rank, or wealthy.

However, the Saxon soldiers did use seaxes quite frequently. I suppose using those in the show would prove much more useful. Actually, Uhtred never used his sword in the shield-wall formation, only his seax. So that further adds to the possibility it could be used that way.

I'm not sure if the update came out at the time of this post, but the Sturgian Spearmen (who look close to Saxons in the show) have that formation with their round-shields. The ranks in the back stick their shields in the air at a slight angle, the side-ranks have their shields at their sides, and the front rank has their shield sticking straight forward. I think the original poster wanted this with the kite-shields of the Empire. My playthrough has a sort of role-play concept of this, and he's teaching the Empire to use the shield-wall similarly to this - however, they don't use the shield-wall like that. They just stick their shields forward and don't lock them together, like the Sturgians and their shield-wall.

Edit: For the original poster, there's a mod that does this that I've been using for a while. It's called "Overhead Shieldwall", which is probably what you want.

Here's the link to the mod. If you need to know how to mod, DM me and I can try to help out: https://www.nexusmods.com/mountandblade2bannerlord/mods/1394

Also, just a head's up: If you're leading an army and one of the vassals chooses to command infantry whilst on a horse, or if you have a companion on a horse that is assigned to infantry, you need to dismount them before putting them into shield-wall formation. Wait for them to dismount and start walking towards the force, then activate shield-wall. Have fun!