What's the secret to recruiting Noble troops?

[BHunterSEAL]

Even grinding-up relations with villages known to spawn Noble recruits (using the Settlement Icons mod, highly recommended btw), I'm having a hard time having more than a few in my army at any given time. Upon loading a save many seem to be available, but after playing for a few in-game days the replacement recruits seem to generally be drawn mostly from the faction's regular troop tree. Recruiting from prisoners works, but these are of course generally not my culture (and indeed frequently from an enemy culture, which in prior M&B titles meant higher desertion rates although I can't tell if this has been carried to Bannerlord). Sometimes I'll get lucky and a defeated enemy will have a few as prisoners, but neither this nor prisoners are a consistent way of acquiring them (and both options are obviously unavailable when your realm is at peace).

Given the way AI recruiting seems to work--they're bound by troops available in towns / villages, same as the player--getting them from my fellow Clan members isn't particularly consistent either, an army of 60-70 may only have one or two troops from the Noble line, if even that.

Has anyone figured out how to get more Noble recruits to spawn naturally? Among the villages that have notables capable of spawning Nobles, does Prosperity seem to impact the number actually available for hire? Right now only saving / loading seems to guarantee Noble spawns, and that feels rather gamey. Some cultures have cavalry in their peasant lines, but as the Empire it seems impossible to maintain a decent force of mounted troops without heavy reliance on mercenaries (which themselves can be hard to find).

On the point of mercenaries, I seem to always find Scouts / Horsemen / Cavalry in the same towns, are spawns randomized or are they impacted by prosperity etc.? If I recruit / disband armed traders, will different mercs potentially spawn?

[Morkonan]

Originally posted by BHunterSEAL:

...Has anyone figured out how to get more Noble recruits to spawn naturally?..

"Powerful" Notables can have Noble troops. If their Village produces Horses, you may get Noble cavalry units. "Influential" ones might have a chance to spawn them, too. (Not sure.)

However, the absolute best way to get Noble Units is to win victories against enemy Armies that have them as Prisoners.

Hands down, no exception, you'll get many more Noble units than you could possible get from Villages. You just have to be willing to drag them around with you until they finally decide to let you recruit them. Some top-tier Noble troops do not seem to be easily recruitable as a Prisoner as Lower Tier ones, though.

I don't know when Recruits generate, but a Village that isn't raided and is generally "healthy" will generate random recruits, within its capability, at a decent rate. But... Lords gobble up recruits at an insane rate. They won't take every available one on their first pass, though. Villages that are in more remote locations tend to have a decent number of recruits, but those same villages are more likely to be plagued by bandits.

As far as Mercs in Taverns go, I think it's a narrow selection of certain specialized units right now. And, though I haven't extensively looked for them, it's very likely to be all RNG.

I've been playing a Northern Empire campaign since Day 1. (Taking my time.. :)) It's not difficult to maintain a decent number of Heavy Cavalry as the player. It IS difficult to maintain a large contingent of Buccalari, though. They're squishy in a Siege and if you're fighting a lot, you'll lose them frequently. Plus, they're an offshoot of Archers, so you've got a base pool of units that is having Palantine Guard, Sergeant Crossbowmen AND Buccalari coming from it. As Empire, you really have to focus your promotion efforts for what you need in terms of ranged units as its easy to get distracted. And, if you have the misfortune of getting a lot of each ranged unit depleted, it's a ton of work to get all their numbers back up. Tons and tons and tons of Archer recruits... (Top Tier Infantry is so heavily armored that significant losses there are very rare.)

[Badger BrownCoat]

side point first:
Seeing as how the "central" culture in this setting is empire-
i mean ,central to the setting is the story of their " 3 kingdoms" period fall... ( well in M&B lore; they fell )
... it might not be ideal to punish for using other cultures recruits-
since both the "roman" west and "byzantine" East Roman empires- with this empire looking awfully eastern roman to me in influences ( hi, theodora <3 ) ;
both were heavily reliant on auxilaries and client states and foreign mercs...
( guess what most actual cataphracts were and were recruited from?)

--- i did put a video about the period this is close to up-
and it goes into when that *did* become a problem, and how they fixed it-
but- i don't think anyone cares ---

anyway, the troop trust-worthiness wasn't I think , the real point of your post.
I was subscribing to your thread anyway to see if the answers fit my own anecdotal experience;
thought Id make that point-
as far as i know, there's no morale mali in this version, which could be " not done yet" or - b/c of the different setting...

I also have old guides/hints saying "horse towns" - which i suspected was just-empire ( for reasons you said ) but seems to be the consensus that that isn't ( or is no longer ) a factor.

there's a few factors I've seen laid out in other threads; and the guide i had I think is outdated;
the type of "notable" is key, as is his power stat( his influence I think ) - and of course you know your relation unlocks his slots, blah blah... it's the rest I'm unclear on, too.
...so, I'll just hide here and see what answers you get if you don't mind.
Might save me digging thru files.

[Morkonan]

Originally posted by Badger BrownCoat:

...
but- i don't think anyone cares ---

I care. It gives "all Empire" factions an advantage in accessing their troop lines. BUT, there aren't really any outstanding Empire units other than Cataphracts. In the hands of the player, Sergeant Crossbow and the various Heavy Infantry lines are really nice and durable, though.

There is also no penalty for having non-culture units in one's Army - Zero morale hits for army composition.

IOW - There's not a lot of plentiful "this is dangerous" unit to be had in the Empire. It is very nice for players wanting to field culture-centric Armies, though.

I would like to have more traditional auxiliaries, though, for each of the Empire factions. Each would get their one/two "Auxiliary" units that reflect their specific culture.

I also have old guides/hints saying "horse towns" - which i suspected was just-empire ( for reasons you said ) but seems to be the consensus that that isn't ( or is no longer ) a factor.

In Villages that produce Horses, you can get pre-equipped mounted units.

However, the only Mounted Units that are directly recruitable by the Empire factions are Noble troop units. (The Empire HA unit can only be obtained from upgrading a Veteran Trained Archer unit with a Warhorse. They can't be directly recruited that I have ever seen.)

And, since that's the only one that is in the list, apparently, of possible recruitable units, any Village that produces Horses will have, if it offers a mounted unit, Noble Mounted Units. :)

the type of "notable" is key, as is his power stat( his influence I think )

"Powerful" and, to some extent, "Influential" Notables can have Noble troops in my experience. And, since the only recruitable Mounted unit for Empire is, in fact, Noble, then it may be that one could find them consistently at Horse producing Villages even if there isn't a Powerful Notable there.

Just from in-game experience and recollection, btw.

[Badger BrownCoat]

Originally posted by Morkonan:

Originally posted by Badger BrownCoat:

...
but- i don't think anyone cares ---

I care.

you care about a 2-3 minute clip of a video about " military recruitment in the dark age of eastern roman empire " ... ? seriously
should i repost it?

...as to the rest, i'm pretty sure you were in threads where i discussed the 3 Empire "kingdoms" being 3 sub-factions (sub cultures ) to represent themata ( recruiting areas ) with their own trees; but that's our mod project; - and won't help with his recruitment.

The irony on some of that tho- is many empires over time had found foreign mercs make *more* reliable bodyguards- aside from auxilaries and recruiting specialist troops from various locals...
( wanna discuss janissary and mamluks? ... nvrmind )

if you want to give further thought on how to better represent such things than vanilla; you can feel free to post on my modding thread " Why aren't you throwing your pila"

ps: for Empire you forgot the Buci - mounted archer, common line.

[laputanconstruct]

With the disciplinarian perk some bandit prisoners can be upgraded to noble line troops. By far the easiest way to get large numbers of Battanian Fianna is to farm forest bandits for prisoners. The disciplinarian perk does take a while to unlock though.

[Badger BrownCoat]

Originally posted by laputanconstruct:

With the disciplinarian perk some bandit prisoners can be upgraded to noble line troops. By far the easiest way to get large numbers of Battanian Fianna is to farm forest bandits for prisoners. The disciplinarian perk does take a while to unlock though.

THIS. I'm drowning in 'em and it feels like cheating.
But- as you said, that's kind of late game./ 1st world problem, innit? ;)

[BHunterSEAL]

To be clear, I have no trouble finding villages where Noble units should spawn. The Settlement Icons mod adds a small crown above village names where one or more of the notables may have Nobles available (although this doesn't guarantee that they will have Nobles available at any given time). The issue is that except in a freshly-loaded game, they will frequent fill many of their recruitment slots with peasant-line recruits.

Can you raise the rating (powerful / influential etc., forget what this is called in game) of a notable by doing quests for them?

Also, do these ever spawn in Towns? From a historical standpoint, wealthy / middle class citizens who could afford their own equipment and horses were more likely to reside in urban centers. The Roman empire even considered these a class unto themselves ("Equites"), separate from patricians and plebs.

[Badger BrownCoat]

Originally posted by BHunterSEAL:

To be clear, I have no trouble finding villages where Noble units should spawn. The Settlement Icons mod adds a small crown above village names where one or more of the notables may have Nobles available (although this doesn't guarantee that they will have Nobles available at any given time). The issue is that except in a freshly-loaded game, they will frequent fill many of their recruitment slots with peasant-line recruits.

Can you raise the rating (powerful / influential etc., forget what this is called in game) of a notable by doing quests for them?

ah- now i have you.
yes, quests help-
some will *decrease* the power of one while helping another; watch those-
but *in general* they'll go up over time; and you can influence their influence ( power stat ) with quests.

Just to be clear- if you would- for me at least- the settlement icon mod ( which i meant to grab too..ty for reminder )-
does it mark HORSE or "should have nobles"-
I ask because i have opposite contradictory answers on if it correlates.

[Morkonan]

Originally posted by Badger BrownCoat:

Originally posted by Morkonan:

I care.

you care about a 2-3 minute clip of a video about " military recruitment in the dark age of eastern roman empire " ... ? seriously
should i repost it?

2-3 minutes?

Uh, probably not. :)

(Unless it's an original kind of scholarly work or new evidence/theory. That's very interesting stuff if it's evidence based work.)

But, absolutely I care about ancient history, especially military history. :)

I recently spent several hours getting hooked into several different scholarly presentations on Agincourt, (I swear half of the historians of this subject not only don't know what the other half is doing, but would be willing to kill the other half if given half a chance...) then delved into the Wallace Collection as well as the more modern history of The Medieval Society and the evolution from Balsa Jousting Lances to Pine as well as, what dumbfounded me, the near-criminal neglect of not including a proper vamplate when, in fact, they were attempting to joust with more proper, historically accurate, lances... WTF? They're using semi-real swords, so use realistic armor, so why the F didn't they think it'd be a good idea to use a realistic vamplate on a realistic lance? o.0

Again, recently, I was sidetracked with some lectures on the very many different "Crusades" for several hours, then it was on to, of course, the Templars. I finally found someone who acknowledged their buddies, the Hospitaliers, to who's standard was the first rally point if their own was lost in battle and this tactical response was mandated by official Templar battlefield doctrine... But, few "historians" mention the Hospitaliers in the same breath as the Templars.

I have books, too... But, they're not as easy to reference as just saying "Youtubes." :) Though, I don't have a decent amount of "ancient warfare" refs/scholarly works. I buy them when I see them on the shelf, but I don't tend to buy the crappy ones or sensationalized coffee-table books, so the selections are limited in popular bookstores.

I did do a bit this morning checking out yet another "Sea Peoples" theory lecture. That counts for "pretty darn ancient" stuff, I guess. :) (And, hopefully this lecture wasn't full of crap since the lecturer did have decent bona fides. But, it's difficult to sift things like that these days.)

[Morkonan]

Originally posted by laputanconstruct:

With the disciplinarian perk some bandit prisoners can be upgraded to noble line troops. By far the easiest way to get large numbers of Battanian Fianna is to farm forest bandits for prisoners. The disciplinarian perk does take a while to unlock though.

^-- This.

Though, that's why I wasn't thinking of it as an "easy way" to get Noble troops. And, the selection can be limited, depending on what you're going for.

[Morkonan]

Originally posted by Badger BrownCoat:

...but *in general* they'll go up over time; and you can influence their influence ( power stat ) with quests.
...

This works for Village Notables?

If so, I'm going to have to go do more of those quests.. :)

PS: There's a downloadable "Village Production" map someone on Reddit, of course, did. It has icons for every village for what they produce if you don't want to use mods.

[Immaluckez]

Originally posted by Morkonan:

Originally posted by laputanconstruct:

With the disciplinarian perk some bandit prisoners can be upgraded to noble line troops. By far the easiest way to get large numbers of Battanian Fianna is to farm forest bandits for prisoners. The disciplinarian perk does take a while to unlock though.

^-- This.

Though, that's why I wasn't thinking of it as an "easy way" to get Noble troops. And, the selection can be limited, depending on what you're going for.

True. It makes sense one needs to grind to get the perk to unlock noble troops, no easy way unless one uses mods.

[Badger BrownCoat]

Originally posted by Morkonan:

(Unless it's an original kind of scholarly work or new evidence/theory. That's very interesting stuff if it's evidence based work.)

Byzantine Military Recruitment ( and tactic/doctrine ) is... very; very well-documented.

https://youtu.be/mT5Cv2uZgd8?t=351 - around 6 min mark if the time-stamp doens't muss again

The rest is interesting. What floored me after so many "3 kingdom jokes" was the part where he lists the issues causing the 'dark age' - point... by point the same causes - and risky solutions-
as the Han's fall ( leading to their "3 kingdoms" I was 1/2-joking about )

all it's misisng is a Big Auxiliary Warlord Kidnapping the Emperor when he was supposed to be putting down crooked court officials- but... with rome / byzantium; that's...way too plausible too.
Meh, history repeats.

[Badger BrownCoat]

ps:

Originally posted by BHunterSEAL:

Also, do these ever spawn in Towns? From a historical standpoint, wealthy / middle class citizens who could afford their own equipment and horses were more likely to reside in urban centers. The Roman empire even considered these a class unto themselves ("Equites"), separate from patricians and plebs.

other than "land owner"- as far as i can tell they put NO consdiration into this aspect-
other than noble troops, look at the gang leaders troops comapred to, i dunno ( insert x here )

the whole greek/roman/ german militia twonsfolk / yeomen - of a middle class that is *militia* - not in the game sense, in the old sense-
( makes it a little harder to put down rebellions when the people can fight back eh? let's ask the greeks )

I don't think the game mechanics put *any* thought into that- which stands out in this game *only* because it's right next to all kinds of political discourse : so much of what the writer was discussing in his "easter eggs" all over the game - but... it is what it is.

[Morkonan]

Thanks! I'll take a look after I go on yet another safari for... toilet paper. I'm running out of socks I don't like. :)

(Quarantine, run on toilet paper at the stores, it's madness... madness!)