Horse archers

[Dmformom]

anyone else feel horse archers are op in singleplayer? Archers seem completely unable to hit and kind of cavalry, and horse archers are too fast for most cavalry to catch up to, so your army ends up getting circled by horse archers and slowly picked apart.

Feels like Rome total war where people would abuse horse archers.

[Kanzy]

So like in Real life then. those damn Mongols!!

[Hammer Of Evil]

this was also a thing in warband. you'll need to use tactics if you have inferior units. there is much more you can do in bannerlord than you ever could in warband.

i hope the devs mostly ignore the chorus of steam players who cry for nerfs instead of getting good.

[Dmformom]

Originally posted by Hammer of Evil:

this was also a thing in warband. you'll need to use tactics if you have inferior units. there is much more you can do in bannerlord than you ever could in warband.

i hope the devs mostly ignore the chorus of steam players who cry for nerfs instead of getting good.

It was a thing in warband, yes, but to a much lesser degree. Archers could actually aim and hit cavalry, and horse archer AI was way worse than in bannerlord.

And yes, tactics, I'm still able to win against horse archer armies as long as I have cavalry, but it's way more of an annoyance than it should be.

Not to mention auto resolve will absolutely decimate your army if the enemy has horse archers even if you outnumber them 3-1, with high tier cavalry, infantry and archers.

I was attacking a caravan of 39, with my army of 127 mostly top tier infantry/cav/archers and 34 of my men died and 20 something were wounded, most of the kills going to the horse archers.

Where as I fight a battle with that same army, against a 50 strong caravan, I lose 4 of my recruits to their archers.

I'm not saying horse archers should be nerfed to the ground, but archers should actually be able to hit them so i don't have to send my heavy cavalry after them and watch them get kited around the map until the AI decides to make a sharp turn right into them.

Yes, I could get horse archers myself but I'm trying to stick to having an Empire based force for roleplay purposes.

Plus it seems that ranged weapons completely, or almost completely ignore armor. I've been 3 shot by a mid-tier archer whilst wearing the best armor in the game, and this is not very realistic at all, seeing as how crossbows were made specifically to kill armored enemies, not bows.

[Dmformom]

One thing that certainly needs to be fixed when concerning horse archers is the auto resolve, since this I assume is how the AI fights, seeing as how in my last 3 games the Khuzait have completely conquered everything on the map by 1094

[Professor Goat]

arrows need fixed all around. especially bows usable on horseback. they need to be weakened significantly against armor bc those bows had a lot lighter of draw weights. and arrows at that era were inferior to armor. theres a few mods that change arrow's damage from Pen to Cut. so thats a good start

[Dmformom]

Originally posted by Professor Goat:

arrows need fixed all around. especially bows usable on horseback. they need to be weakened significantly against armor bc those bows had a lot lighter of drawn weights. and arrows at that era were inferior to armor. theres a few mods that change arrow's damage from Pen to Cut.

Yeah it doesn't make sense that an arrow fired from a bow will penetrate the strongest armor in the game.

Bolts fired from crossbows? sure, that's what they were made for

Javelins? Ehh, maybe.

[Wolin]

Horseback archers need their accuracy reduced, not their damage, an arrow shoot on hoseback offset the less draw weight with an higher base speed for riding a horse, there is documentation around the internet that points that mongol archers arrow had in fact more reach than those from most archers on europe back then.

About the armor, considering in this game there isn't really a heavy armor or is not that common on the troops(there is no plate armor per se, and the most I think are chainmails), and the tip of all arrows seems to be made of iron makes me think than in the game setup the arrows are in fact better than most armors.

However as I said I don't think the problem on the archers in this game is on the damage, but on the accuracy every archer on this game seems to have.

[Dmformom]

Originally posted by Wolin:

Horseback archers need their accuracy reduced, not their damage, an arrow shoot on hoseback offset the less draw weight with an higher base speed for riding a horse, there is documentation around the internet that points that mongol archers arrow had in fact more reach than those from most archers on europe back then.

About the armor, considering in this game there isn't really a heavy armor or is not that common on the troops(there is no plate armor per se, and the most I think are chainmails), and the tip of all arrows seems to be made of iron makes me think than in the game setup the arrows are in fact better than most armors.

However as I said I don't think the problem on the archers in this game is on the damage, but on the accuracy every archer on this game seems to have.

Eh, I feel the damage should still be reduced, not by a lot but a bit. Having my top tier infantry that I chased like 20 looters around to get die to a few arrows from some peasants with bows isn't very fun

[Crozz]

Just control your troops, im not gonna say how. But you can definitely eat up some horse archers just by moving around a few troop types.

[TengriBless,]

Originally posted by Crozz666:

Just control your troops, im not gonna say how. But you can definitely eat up some horse archers just by moving around a few troop types.

this. players can easily counter horse archers but the problem is that the AI can't, especially in smaller groups, they'll just stand in a circle as horse archers circle them around and eventually win.

[Cetra]

Originally posted by Hammer of Evil:

this was also a thing in warband. you'll need to use tactics if you have inferior units. there is much more you can do in bannerlord than you ever could in warband.

i hope the devs mostly ignore the chorus of steam players who cry for nerfs instead of getting good.

Amen brother !!

[Cetra]

As someone who lives eats breaths all things Mongolian I completly Reject the argument that Horse Archers need to be nerfed considering ive waited 8 years for proper cavalry mechanics and a AI smart enough to work horse archers

First off you should not be fighting a skirmisher army on a open flat terrain if you have you deserve to be a practice dummy full of arrows

2nd forest and hills are your friend

3rd bring archers and a bow of your own you would suprised how bad horse archers are when they dont have a horse, place archers on rough terrain

4 accept reality there is a reason why cavalry units are expensive and require more resources then other units its because in this era they were that deadly, not sure if you have tried building up a cav army you need to provide a horse to each unit you upgrade into Cav!!

Everything you described in your post is exactly why Horse archers from the sycthians to the Huns to the Mongols were so feared again " IN OPEN FIELD BATTLES "

I will admit armour mechanics need to be adjusted but that will only help you so much against the khuzaits

[Jotun]

Originally posted by Trigger:

Originally posted by Professor Goat:

arrows need fixed all around. especially bows usable on horseback. they need to be weakened significantly against armor bc those bows had a lot lighter of drawn weights. and arrows at that era were inferior to armor. theres a few mods that change arrow's damage from Pen to Cut.

Yeah it doesn't make sense that an arrow fired from a bow will penetrate the strongest armor in the game.

Bolts fired from crossbows? sure, that's what they were made for

Javelins? Ehh, maybe.

Arrows from long bows were totally able to go through certain type of armors like mail and padded armor. Breastplates and helmets? It depends a lot on where it hits (arrows sliding on the rounded steel surface) and the quality of the armor but joints would still be a weak spot (unless we're talking full plate, which didn't exist at that point).

[JtDarth]

Originally posted by Trigger:

Originally posted by Hammer of Evil:

this was also a thing in warband. you'll need to use tactics if you have inferior units. there is much more you can do in bannerlord than you ever could in warband.

i hope the devs mostly ignore the chorus of steam players who cry for nerfs instead of getting good.

It was a thing in warband, yes, but to a much lesser degree. Archers could actually aim and hit cavalry, and horse archer AI was way worse than in bannerlord.

And yes, tactics, I'm still able to win against horse archer armies as long as I have cavalry, but it's way more of an annoyance than it should be.

Not to mention auto resolve will absolutely decimate your army if the enemy has horse archers even if you outnumber them 3-1, with high tier cavalry, infantry and archers.

I was attacking a caravan of 39, with my army of 127 mostly top tier infantry/cav/archers and 34 of my men died and 20 something were wounded, most of the kills going to the horse archers.

Where as I fight a battle with that same army, against a 50 strong caravan, I lose 4 of my recruits to their archers.

I'm not saying horse archers should be nerfed to the ground, but archers should actually be able to hit them so i don't have to send my heavy cavalry after them and watch them get kited around the map until the AI decides to make a sharp turn right into them.

Yes, I could get horse archers myself but I'm trying to stick to having an Empire based force for roleplay purposes.

Plus it seems that ranged weapons completely, or almost completely ignore armor. I've been 3 shot by a mid-tier archer whilst wearing the best armor in the game, and this is not very realistic at all, seeing as how crossbows were made specifically to kill armored enemies, not bows.

Empire has horse archers, last I checked. Archer line promotes into a mounted unit down the line. Unless it makes a stupid switch to thrown weapons for a mounted archer, they are horse archers.

[jrossp]

Originally posted by Cetra:

As someone who lives eats breaths all things Mongolian I completly Reject the argument that Horse Archers need to be nerfed considering ive waited 8 years for proper cavalry mechanics and a AI smart enough to work horse archers

First off you should not be fighting a skirmisher army on a open flat terrain if you have you deserve to be a practice dummy full of arrows

2nd forest and hills are your friend

3rd bring archers and a bow of your own you would suprised how bad horse archers are when they dont have a horse, place archers on rough terrain

4 accept reality there is a reason why cavalry units are expensive and require more resources then other units its because in this era they were that deadly, not sure if you have tried building up a cav army you need to provide a horse to each unit you upgrade into Cav!!

Everything you described in your post is exactly why Horse archers from the sycthians to the Huns to the Mongols were so feared again " IN OPEN FIELD BATTLES "

I will admit armour mechanics need to be adjusted but that will only help you so much against the khuzaits

+100..WELL SAID
whiners would rather ruin others experience because of their own lack of skill or knowledge to beat them.
Horse archers were dominant for a reason, dont you crybabies dare take that away from us. lol