Looters and "Realistic"

[cailean_556]

I've come to the conclusion that, at least with everything set to "Realistic", Looters in particular are overpowered for what they are meant to represent. I don't find this to be as prevalent with Sea Raiders, whom I fight regularly (my "home" is Sturgia) or the Forest Bandits, or even the Steppe Bandits that cleaned the floor with me in a game I ended up rage-quitting and started again (I was also bankrupt and didn't feel like slumming it so it was easier to start again anyway)...

Looters are (supposed to be) poor, dishevelled criminal peasantry roaming the countryside robbing passersby wearing little more than rags made of woven cloth carrying a bag of rocks (big ones that are easy to throw, apparently) carrying basic weapons (sickles, pitchforks, clubs, etc). They are not meant to provide an established force with much of a threat or challenge - they're essentially walking loot bags for any established warband.

Looters aren't overpowered in that they're impossible to defeat, but considering they represent the lowest tier of enemy in Bannerlord, they can still best better, higher tier units. Not to mention even in 1v1 against the player, they seemingly have a significant advantage - especially if the player doesn't have a shield.

I don't feel as though a peasant with a pitchfork in whatever rags pass for clothing should be much of a threat to a trained warrior, especially a trained warrior, in armour, on horseback. Pitchforks do not equate to lances, spears and recurve bows. Cloth rags do not equate to padded leather or chain mail. I've lost a more than a few Raiders to Looters, surprisingly. Khuzait Raiders seemingly stand up to Sea Raiders better than they do Looters. Khuzait might not be the best armoured, but at least they're wearing actual armour, not what appears to be rags with an armour value. Looters in Warband were never this much of an issue.

The damage model seems to be hit and miss. It seems to be overpowered for the player, and seemingly underpowered - but not always - for the AI. Rocks, in particular, seemingly do tremendous amounts of damage. Far more than they ever did in Warband - and in Warband they had slings. With my current character (granted his armour is not great at the moment), as I've been taking more notice, a single rock will put me down to 3/4 to 2/3 health, and do around 15% damage per rock to my Steppe Horse with a standard saddle yet a Looter (wearing rags) will absorb two or three arrows (even shrug off a headshot on occasion), or survive being hit with a sword from horseback. On the other hand, I've also seen headshots drop Looters first hit and Looters drop to a swing of my saber - even when I think I've missed. So I'm not sure what the damage mechanic is doing...

The AI can seemingly engage with rocks, before a mounted archer has even readied their bow (i.e. the archer's targets are not yet in range - this is also true of Sea Raiders throwing javelins from ridiculous distances that appears to exceed that of a bow - again, archers aren't shooting yet) but they don't seem to be as accurate as rocks do. I've also, on several occasions, lost a Tier 3 unit (in my case, Khuzait Raider) in 1v1 and 1v2 (as in 1 Raider v 2 Looters) during the initial charge (so the Raider hasn't already received damage and the Looter just got lucky).

What I think needs to occur is the armour, damage and accuracy values for Looters, in particular, and their equipment needs to be lowered to reflect what they are supposed to represent - rebellious peasants that present a threat only to low tier units or when numerically superior.

[Lamiosa]

Looters are only strong, if you just begin game and have not many men. I always send troops and only about 1-4 of my men got knocked out, so do not even lose troops when sending my guys in.

[Kashra Fall]

Looters have rocks. Rocks have blunt damage. Blunt damage counters armor. You riding your horse+rock= lots of pain.

They have basic wweapons, but their rocks are their strongest point.

[The Former]

I dunno. I don't find them overly powerful. I went 4v1 against them with javelins recently, and I rarely loose many men to them unless my army's full of raw recruits with little to no armor, who should by rights die when a 2-pound rock cracks their skull.

[Menace]

I've always had an easy time with them.

[madracc00n]

Looters=sent troops and get free exp.Looks like u are not rdy for realistic battles if u have trouble with looters,even after last change u still can solo 10-12 looters on lvl 1 with a basic bow.

[Technech]

Ai got heat seeking missile tech in patch 1.02. And I want those rocks too! could take on an empire with those!

[dr46onfusion]

Originally posted by cailean_556:

I've come to the conclusion that, at least with everything set to "Realistic", Looters in particular are overpowered for what they are meant to represent. I don't find this to be as prevalent with Sea Raiders, whom I fight regularly (my "home" is Sturgia) or the Forest Bandits, or even the Steppe Bandits that cleaned the floor with me in a game I ended up rage-quitting and started again (I was also bankrupt and didn't feel like slumming it so it was easier to start again anyway)...

Looters are (supposed to be) poor, dishevelled criminal peasantry roaming the countryside robbing passersby wearing little more than rags made of woven cloth carrying a bag of rocks (big ones that are easy to throw, apparently) carrying basic weapons (sickles, pitchforks, clubs, etc). They are not meant to provide an established force with much of a threat or challenge - they're essentially walking loot bags for any established warband.

Looters aren't overpowered in that they're impossible to defeat, but considering they represent the lowest tier of enemy in Bannerlord, they can still best better, higher tier units. Not to mention even in 1v1 against the player, they seemingly have a significant advantage - especially if the player doesn't have a shield.

I don't feel as though a peasant with a pitchfork in whatever rags pass for clothing should be much of a threat to a trained warrior, especially a trained warrior, in armour, on horseback. Pitchforks do not equate to lances, spears and recurve bows. Cloth rags do not equate to padded leather or chain mail. I've lost a more than a few Raiders to Looters, surprisingly. Khuzait Raiders seemingly stand up to Sea Raiders better than they do Looters. Khuzait might not be the best armoured, but at least they're wearing actual armour, not what appears to be rags with an armour value. Looters in Warband were never this much of an issue.

The damage model seems to be hit and miss. It seems to be overpowered for the player, and seemingly underpowered - but not always - for the AI. Rocks, in particular, seemingly do tremendous amounts of damage. Far more than they ever did in Warband - and in Warband they had slings. With my current character (granted his armour is not great at the moment), as I've been taking more notice, a single rock will put me down to 3/4 to 2/3 health, and do around 15% damage per rock to my Steppe Horse with a standard saddle yet a Looter (wearing rags) will absorb two or three arrows (even shrug off a headshot on occasion), or survive being hit with a sword from horseback. On the other hand, I've also seen headshots drop Looters first hit and Looters drop to a swing of my saber - even when I think I've missed. So I'm not sure what the damage mechanic is doing...

The AI can seemingly engage with rocks, before a mounted archer has even readied their bow (i.e. the archer's targets are not yet in range - this is also true of Sea Raiders throwing javelins from ridiculous distances that appears to exceed that of a bow - again, archers aren't shooting yet) but they don't seem to be as accurate as rocks do. I've also, on several occasions, lost a Tier 3 unit (in my case, Khuzait Raider) in 1v1 and 1v2 (as in 1 Raider v 2 Looters) during the initial charge (so the Raider hasn't already received damage and the Looter just got lucky).

What I think needs to occur is the armour, damage and accuracy values for Looters, in particular, and their equipment needs to be lowered to reflect what they are supposed to represent - rebellious peasants that present a threat only to low tier units or when numerically superior.

There seems to be 2 version of looters, at random some looter go into 'archer mode' and will do nothing but pelt you with infinite rocks, the other ones often go into melee mode and give chase constantly.

Btw, while you do have friendly fire damage to your own units and allied units, it doesn't seem like the enemy team cares and do no damage to each other.

[Technech]

Originally posted by Michael Bolton:

I dunno. I don't find them overly powerful. I went 4v1 against them with javelins recently, and I rarely loose many men to them unless my army's full of raw recruits with little to no armor, who should by rights die when a 2-pound rock cracks their skull.

Who can trow a 2-pound (1 kg) rock 20-30 meters with pin point accuracy?

[Alesch]

I just wish they didn't have quite so many rocks. With most throwing weapons you just ride circles around them until they run out of ammo. Looters take ages to run out of ammo.

Also I'm pretty sure I've seen them bend over and pick thrown rocks back up. Too many rocks.

[Lamiosa]

Originally posted by I kill hackers. with a spoon.:

Originally posted by Michael Bolton:

I dunno. I don't find them overly powerful. I went 4v1 against them with javelins recently, and I rarely loose many men to them unless my army's full of raw recruits with little to no armor, who should by rights die when a 2-pound rock cracks their skull.

Who can trow a 2-pound (1 kg) rock 20-30 meters with pin point accuracy?

Chuck Norris.

[Sklendath]

horse + bow = dead looters

[Technech]

Originally posted by madrac00n:

Looters=sent troops and get free exp.Looks like u are not rdy for realistic battles if u have trouble with looters,even after last change u still can solo 10-12 looters on lvl 1 with a basic bow.

I too solo lots of looters. that dont mean they are not broken. They have insane range and accuracy on those rocks! Ofc you can cheese the system and make it easy, but its not the point. One on one in a "fair" fight, looters is op as ****

[Gustavus Octopus]

I'd say they are fine. The only problem with enemy AI that I have is, especially in tournaments, they are dumb as hell. I can easily kill anyone, at the start if the game, with everything on realistic, just by circling them.

[Sun of Socialism]

They are most definitely not 2-pound rocks. Probably 1 pound or less. You ever been hit by a rock? What about a whole rain of rocks? I find looters reasonable, minus their exaggerated aim. I think they should also have to pick up new rocks from the ground instead of having 10 or more of them in their pocketless pants.

[cailean_556]

Originally posted by Michael Bolton:

I dunno. I don't find them overly powerful. I went 4v1 against them with javelins recently, and I rarely loose many men to them unless my army's full of raw recruits with little to no armor, who should by rights die when a 2-pound rock cracks their skull.

My warband is predominantly made up of mounted archers. You try throwing a 2 pound rock at a galloping horse, moving obliquely, from 50 metres away, to hit its armoured rider in the head with enough force to knock them out. While you're at it, you try walking away after being cut across your back or chest with a saber while wearing your favourite jumper.