Permadeath in Bannerlord

[Deadpixel]

Dose anybody know how that works ? Is it you get knocked out 3 time and your dead ?
And they said you can't turn it off.

[I got 1984'd]

引用自 VapeDruidOfUnicornWeedMtn：

引用自 Fireandsteel：

Problem with perma death. Is you cannot reload, as the save is deleted.

And they're saying this is gonna be a standard mechanic that can't be turned off? Sounds fun, but frustrating. If that's the case you actually gotta use the retreat mechanic..

I'm pretty sure these people are just trolling.

[Nikita]

引用自 Fireandsteel：

引用自 VapeDruidOfUnicornWeedMtn：

It's not like you have ever died anyways, you always reload the save if anything goes wrong ;)

Problem with perma death. Is you cannot reload, as the save is deleted.

That is only 1 version of perma death, that's the issue with most people against it they think there is only 1 mechanic, while it has multiple versions on how it exactly works when you die. On how it in M&B works we would have to see, but they aren't going to delete your save file on death. If they implement it as a feature they will probs have it as a feature that it continues the game, as many already said probs a family mechanic etc. You know like CK2, you die so your children take over etc. If they would implement it as "your save file will be deleted" then guaranteed would be a different extra mode.

[Fireandsteel]

引用自 Athena：

If you want an example of perma death games were it is a big selling point to a degree: every 4x and strategy game ?

Wouldn't say every rts. Actually don't really know of any. Except for total war.
Edit, just realised, total war is not even rts, it is RTT.



4x games, well, I don't really play 4x. I have played some. Like civ 5 and Endless space. But you can just reload.

引用自 Athena：

Or loads of hardcode modes in games where your save gets deleted if you die ?

like?

引用自 Athena：

Or you know roguelike games ? It's basically build around perma death.

I only play rts/rtt, sandbox and coop fps like DL.
Can't comment on them.

引用自 Athena：

The ones you are mentioning are different kind of games where co-op actually works, neither do they sell well because they have co-op but because they are both just great games.

Well as far as I an aware the game genres you mentioned are not known for selling based on Permadeath.
I sure as hell didn't get aoe2 cos it has perma death. Well it really doesn't. Because a 30 min multiplayer match doesn't compare to a 30 hour campaign.

引用自 Athena：

You will be limited on how M&B works

first you have to have a goal. That goal is to get a coop game mode working no matter the cost. If it is limited compared to singleplayer. But still offers multiple players. Has it not achieved its goal?

引用自 Athena：

you have to start syncing with each other in real time, because it isn't turn based for example like TW series.

That is not a problem. You should be syncing anyway otherwise you will get oos error.

引用自 Athena：

So then you have to start looking if you going to have both in the same army or both in different ones while you aren't doing the same and then syncing all that together and how would battles work ?

Good questions, I am glad you asked.
I have answered them before in a previous post. I will do it again.
There are multiple different ways it can work.

First there is the way the devs said they could do it. All players would be part of a single warband. And would really have no freedom. It would be like the freelancer mod. Fun at first. But would get old and boring real fast.
Of course you can also subset the idle time any secondary player has while the lead player is doing stuff, by making mini games and the like.

I am personally not a fan of this coop mode.
Doesn't really offer much in freedom for more than one player.

Another way it can be done is by allowing multiple players to roam the map independently of each other in their own Warbands. Of course, now you ask, “But what of map speed?”, “And what if a player begins a battle, what happens to the other players?”
Well lets say you want to speed the game up. You would press and hold ctrl + space, as normal. And all it will do is initiate a trigger that notifies all parties that fast travel is requested. The last person to press and hold the button combo will trigger the game to speed up for everyone. If player 2 decides that he/she is in danger. They can let go of the button combo and the fast travel will cease to work until pressed again by all parties. And a notification will let other players know that player 2 has stopped the process.

Now if a player begins a battle by getting attacked or attacking. You can have one of two features. Either the game is now in real time so if a player initiates an attack, the other coop players can roam the map along with the AI and potentially join or reinforce the battle. As the battle would be in real-time with the campaign, you could potentially just ignore the battle and go as your own business.
Nope you ask “But if battles were in real-time, reinforcements could keep coming until the entire empire is fighting my 12 man army.” Well no, the radius of the battle reinforcement range could be dependent on certain factors like game difficulty, honour, dread and money you have. And certainly could have many other determining factors to make it impossible for an entire empire to rush to battle you.
Or
If a player initiates an attack, the other coop players will get a pop up asking them to either spectate, join battle as a sergeant, play as the enemy or auto resolve(would need popular vote).

引用自 Athena：

The you would be forced to pause when you friend is in a battle or you always have to be together at that point.

Right, but we are talking about making coop work no?
If it works, I don't see the introduction of this mechanic as a large set back. It is the price you pay to have a working coop with as much freedoms as possible.

引用自 Athena：

There is a reason why most co-op games are else story driven and you both are doing the same for the most part or survival. At least start to think about how co-op would actually work in a game like M&B and if you can think of other games like M&B that has co-op, before you start going to say it's a selling point etc lol. There are more games with a perma death feature than a co-op feature you know xD.

So because Permadeath works in ck2, it will automatically work in M&B?
And on top of that you don't actually have numbers on the amount of ck2 players who only play iron man mode.
Idk, I have a lot of games, and most of my games don't have permadeath. Only exception being Terraria and some of the crappy indie games. None of my Uplay games have perma death, and that includes all assassin creeds, all splinter cells, all far cry's and some other non important games.
None of my Ea origin games have perma death and that includes dragon age 1 and cnc first decade.

引用自 Athena：

I do have to add if they will add a perma death feature in this game, it should be an option in the menu to turn it off or implemented as a hardcore mode. People who say that it is a bad feature are just selfish, just because they don't want a certain feature, the devs shouldn't implement it if they want to ?

I actually don't have anything against perma death as long as it is optional and off by default. But I do feel coop is a more important business choice. What do you think will look more appealing on the frontpage?

引用自 Athena：

引用自 Fireandsteel：

Problem with perma death. Is you cannot reload, as the save is deleted.

That is only 1 version of perma death, that's the issue with most people against it they think there is only 1 mechanic, while it has multiple versions on how it exactly works when you die. On how it in M&B works we would have to see, but they aren't going to delete your save file on death. If they implement it as a feature they will probs have it as a feature that it continues the game, as many already said probs a family mechanic etc. You know like CK2, you die so your children take over etc. If they would implement it as "your save file will be deleted" then guaranteed would be a different extra mode.

There is only one version of perma death.
permadeath
ˈpə:mədɛθ/Submit
noun
(in a video game) a situation in which a character cannot reappear after having been killed.
https://en.oxforddictionaries.com/definition/permadeath

If it does not meet the dicionary description, it is something else.
How you apply permadeath is the issue here. I am not really a fan of family lines ingame either. Sure people can use it if they want, but I won't. I don't have the time for that in my busy schedule. This particular suggestion should remain in the realms of optional gameplay settings or mods.

Edit out of curiosity, If you have permadeath enabled and family lines enabled. lets say you manage to create a kingdom and have a couple kids. what happens when all your fammily dies before they can reproduce, do you gain control of some other lord. Or does your save get deleted?

[Nikita]

Why did you even decide to answer on something that pretty much was already done. Stop trying to "win" while you just repeating yourself over and over again defo still hammering on that selling point thing which is completely useless in this argument at this point. Permadeath is when a character permanently dies, what happens after that mechanic is completely up to the devs which means you have different versions on how permadeath works in a game. I'm even amazed how you are trying to argue against that. With some your save file is deleted, with others your children take over, with others it might work in a generation thing where when your character dies all the gear and money you have goes to the next character so that one is stronger etc.

引用自 Fireandsteel：

Well as far as I an aware the game genres you mentioned are not known for selling based on Permadeath.
I sure as hell didn't get aoe2 cos it has perma death. Well it really doesn't. Because a 30 min multiplayer match doesn't compare to a 30 hour campaign.

"Roguelike is a term used to describe a subgenre of role-playing video games that are characterized by a dungeon crawl through procedurally generated game levels, turn-based gameplay, tile-based graphics, and permanent death of the player-character. Most roguelikes are based on a high fantasy narrative, reflecting their influence from tabletop role playing games such as Dungeons & Dragons."
What has hours and multiplayer even to do with a perma death discussion ?

They are both on equal selling point level, just accept that. Will be easier for everyone both have a market around it, most people don't care if it would be in the game or not. When I will call upon people like you is when they make permadeath a default feature unable to be turned off by an ingame option or a mod.

[Fireandsteel]

引用自 Athena：

Why did you even decide to answer on something that pretty much was already done. Stop trying to "win" while you just repeating yourself over and over again defo still hammering on that selling point thing which is completely useless in this argument at this point. Permadeath is when a character permanently dies, what happens after that mechanic is completely up to the devs which means you have different versions on how permadeath works in a game. I'm even amazed how you are trying to argue against that. With some your save file is deleted, with others your children take over, with others it might work in a generation thing where when your character dies all the gear and money you have goes to the next character so that one is stronger etc.

引用自 Fireandsteel：

Well as far as I an aware the game genres you mentioned are not known for selling based on Permadeath.
I sure as hell didn't get aoe2 cos it has perma death. Well it really doesn't. Because a 30 min multiplayer match doesn't compare to a 30 hour campaign.

"Roguelike is a term used to describe a subgenre of role-playing video games that are characterized by a dungeon crawl through procedurally generated game levels, turn-based gameplay, tile-based graphics, and permanent death of the player-character. Most roguelikes are based on a high fantasy narrative, reflecting their influence from tabletop role playing games such as Dungeons & Dragons."
What has hours and multiplayer even to do with a perma death discussion ?

They are both on equal selling point level, just accept that. Will be easier for everyone both have a market around it, most people don't care if it would be in the game or not. When I will call upon people like you is when they make permadeath a default feature unable to be turned off by an ingame option or a mod.

Go on ignore what I said some more, perhaps it shall go both ways.
"What has hours and multiplayer even to do with a perma death discussion ?"
what do you even mean? You on crack son?
It is the core principle of the idea. Skrew up and you lost ur 40hour campaign.
or as our friend says it best easiler in the thread.

引用自 Waclaw83：

引用自 Fireandsteel：

Give me a game where perma death is the selling feature.

Crusader Kings II - screw up and that little empire you were building for the last 10 hours falls apart in under 5 minutes.

Edit please this was such a good descussion. Why ruin it now?

[Nikita]

Just like the other guy you now attack me personally xD. No one says your 40 hours campaign can be lost, I keep saying that perma death has loads of ways to be implemented in games. You have to play CK2 to understand how it works basically any Paradox game. You play as a dynasty so if your ruler dies, the next in line takes over but it's basically a massive medieval simulator. You have for example 3 sons and your ruler dies the next one takes over but the other 2 don't like it so your empire can get destroyed from within, but doesn't mean your campaign is over. You pretty much still play the same campaign and can work your way up again to the amount of power you once had. Or you fight to keep your empire you have been building for the last 10 hours by making strategic decisions. You basically give the best example possible when pema death works amazing.

Can you imagine what kind of mechanics this could bring into M&B stuff like civil wars etc. Imagine a big kingdom the king dies the sons start to fight for power everyone takes sides and you get a massive civil war on the campaign map. Not to speak on how dynamic the game would become when you see rulers keep changing over the years when you have played hundreds of hours etc. This is some extreme level of medieval simulation into a pretty great sandbox rpg game.

[Fireandsteel]

引用自 Athena：

Just like the other guy you now attack me personally xD. No one says your 40 hours campaign can be lost, I keep saying that perma death has loads of ways to be implemented in games. You have to play CK2 to understand how it works basically any Paradox game. You play as a dynasty so if your ruler dies, the next in line takes over but it's basically a massive medieval simulator. You have for example 3 sons and your ruler dies the next one takes over but the other 2 don't like it so your empire can get destroyed from within, but doesn't mean your campaign is over. You pretty much still play the same campaign and can work your way up again to the amount of power you once had. Or you fight to keep your empire you have been building for the last 10 hours by making strategic decisions. You basically give the best example possible when pema death works amazing. Can you imagine what kind of mechanics this could bring into M&B stuff like civil wars etc. Imagine a big kingdom the king dies the sons start to fight for power everyone takes sides and you get a massive civil war on the campaign map. Not to speak on how dynamic the game would become when you see rulers keep changing over the years when you have played hundreds of hours etc. This is some extreme level of medieval simulation into a pretty great sandbox rpg game.

It is more of a "hang on a sec moment" than a personal insult. Of course that is just part of the culture I am from.

All of this sounds great in theory. But in practice I will never have the time for this. And I doubt you will have the time either.

[Nikita]

Time for what ? Play the game ? xD

[Fireandsteel]

引用自 Athena：

Time for what ? Play the game ? xD

Well I have so many hours in skyrim. Yet I have only done the dawnguard questline.
Than I uninstalled the game bcause it was boring.

What I am trying to say is. You will probably not have the time to play the game to 100% completion or you might get bored fast. So You might not even complete all of those goals.

[Nikita]

Which goals ? M&B is a sandbox medieval rpg it has no goals ?

[Fireandsteel]

引用自 Athena：

Which goals ? M&B is a sandbox medieval rpg it has no goals ?

If it has no goals, than what is the point of family linage and passing the kingdom over to other family members? That sounds like a goal to me.

[Nikita]

引用自 Fireandsteel：

引用自 Athena：

Which goals ? M&B is a sandbox medieval rpg it has no goals ?

If it has no goals, than what is the point of family linage and passing the kingdom over to other family members? That sounds like a goal to me.

You set your own goals that's basically what a sandbox is all about ? Not to mention that marriage was basically already in M&B so ? You choose what you want to do, that's the point of a sandbox game. What's the point of co-op if some people aren't going to use it right ?

[Fireandsteel]

引用自 Athena：

引用自 Fireandsteel：

If it has no goals, than what is the point of family linage and passing the kingdom over to other family members? That sounds like a goal to me.

You set your own goals that's basically what a sandbox is all about ? Not to mention that marriage was basically already in M&B so ? You choose what you want to do, that's the point of a sandbox game. What's the point of co-op if some people aren't going to use it right ?

You just said it had no goals?
Creating a goal is still a goal.
What your goal is; is up to you.

What is the point of perma death if most people aren't going to use it?
In any imaginary form it is in.

Anyway yoy haven't said anything about my explanation of how coop can work.

[Nikita]

引用自 Fireandsteel：

引用自 Athena：

You set your own goals that's basically what a sandbox is all about ? Not to mention that marriage was basically already in M&B so ? You choose what you want to do, that's the point of a sandbox game. What's the point of co-op if some people aren't going to use it right ?

You just said it had no goals?
Creating a goal is still a goal.
What your goal is; is up to you.

The game doesn't have any, you have to set them yourself to 'plan" what you want to do in game. I don't even understand what you are trying to argue at this point.

引用自 Fireandsteel：

What I am trying to say is. You will probably not have the time to play the game to 100% completion or you might get bored fast. So You might not even complete all of those goals.

Also I don't even understand this, if you can't be bothered to finish a game (not that M&B actually has a real ending) then that's something personal to you.

I already explained to you what type of co-op they can have and that it in any form would start to limit the gameplay. You basically just repeated what I said.
It's extremely simple else you have a co-op mechanic which allows you to be in different warbands and start to limit the gameplay around that or else you limit the game from the start and force you to be together at all times there is literally not a 3rd option atm. If there is then I would love you to link me any game like M&B that has co-op and that does it any other way than the 2 mentioned ? I also don't understand why you even spoke about map speed that's like something least of their worries for co-op or MP. CK2 has different type of speed settings which can be changed at any time, up to 4 different speeds and a pause button and that game is from 2012. Oh and remember that game is with more than just 2 players, so trust me speed isn't an issue for co-op xD.

[Skrutky]

引用自 Waclaw83：

引用自 Qwerthas：

How can you except so many people talking about it in this very thread when this very thread is all about permadeath? Are you okay?

Real question is: are you ok? :)

First you make claims, in a necroed thread which was dead since March, and for good reasons. When someone asked you nicely to backup your claims with data, as in showing hard facts proving you are not just another bs filled idiot like I am, you decided to go with "Why would I bother with giving you links when I am sure you would still tell me the same thing?". So you're either lying or trolling and that's that.

Gave you a nice link to an article where dev reps admitted that adding meaningfull coop would result in cutting certain (from their perspective) important mechanics as some would not work as intended. You know, from the top of my head, the fact time stops when you fight in a battle, which means your lands get raided while you run around those horse bandits till you own piles of dirt? Or better yet, your coop friend getting stranded and (for instance) being forced to stare at the map or spectate at your battle? Or would you prefer a coop where one of the people is the real lord and the rest are spectators and get into action just during battles where they control companions?

Oh my, the options sound soooooo much fun, I can't wait for you to have one of the, or better yet ALL available for amusement and sheer joy of coop. But hey, since I did notice that majority of people grumbling about no coop seem to not give a damn if it will be good or not, I don't really care what pile of goo you end up with, as long as it won't mess my singleplayer. So whatever...

引用自 Qwerthas：

I don't claim coop is easy or that it will be implemented, I just said that if you check some Bannerlord videos you can see a lot of people talking nicely about coop and those comments are usually among the top rated comments.

You mean the videos from the multiplayer community oriented people, making videos mostly for the online community, where the main focus is... multiplayer? Ok. Well, videos promoting racism have a lot of comments like "kill all them white ♥♥♥♥♥" or "♥♥♥♥♥♥s back onto the cotton fields" and they are all liked as well... so I guess your claim is valid and let's leave it like that, shall we? :)

Done, and unsubscribing as I should have back in March when this thread died.

引用自 Qwerthas：

And how exactly did I attack you personally? I didn't insult you at all. I just think that you struggle with understanding my point even though I think that I explained it clearly enough.

Hint: start by not insulting someones intelligence - when engaged in a debate back your claims instead of insinuating your talk buddies are idiots with fixed views on everything hence they are not worth your time for an answer. Don't thank me, that tip is on the house. And just to refresh your memory in case you've no idea what I'm talking about:

引用自 Qwerthas：

Why would I bother with giving you links when I am sure you would still tell me the same thing?

@AllmightMODCallum Please lock this thread, or point our coop fan club to the coop thread as there is one and all one needs to do is use the search function.

I am okay and the question should stay: Are you okay? What's wrong with making claims in a thread that died in March but was revived by someone (not me by the way)? I've admitted that coop is harder to make but a bigger selling point than permadeath, which is definitely not the point of game and wasn't even implemented in previous M&Bs, whereas coop was added to Warband and it fits well. Permadeath simply does not. Why can't you just play as a normal huscarl if you want your hero character die in a battle? That is the thing, your character should be special, not like everyone else. I didn't give you links because when you just watch videos that are somewhat linked to Bannerlord (not only multiplayer, the game in general), you can see that coop is still popular. I hope you won't come up with another long yet meaningful argument. You unsubscribed to this thread after all. Hint: Try to actually understand what people tell you, because if you consider that an insult, you are a very touchy person. Don't thank me, that tip is on the house.