Mod Recommendations

[ThorThundergod23]

Are there some good Mods out there?
I only found some older, abandoned ones.

[X-the Unknown]

Spartan did the same thing as I said. Full access means nothing when numbers are still involved.

Answer me this: Just one question. Did you not press any number buttons while modifying the game? If you say no then you're a liar.

At any rate I'm done here as there are NO mods that are good out there for this game. There are mods yes but none of them I have seen (and played and I've played the Improved AI one) are any good. Just a bunch of numbers thrown at you above the vanilla game.

[Icemania]

Publicado originalmente por Tropicalrain:

I've been modding games for 30+ years and I know what I'm talking about. How many years of experince do you have? lol

Really? This is juvenile. Since I have no intention of giving my entire CV to a public forum I'll only reveal what I've publicly revealed elsewhere.

https://steamcommunity.com/groups/explorminate/discussions/0/611696927929663516/

[Icemania]

Publicado originalmente por Tropicalrain:

Spartan did the same thing as I said. Full access means nothing when numbers are still involved.

Answer me this: Just one question. Did you not press any number buttons while modifying the game? If you say no then you're a liar.

Of course there are numbers! Numbers which change the strategy and tactics that the AI applies.

[Gregorovitch]

Publicado originalmente por Tropicalrain:

I don';t give a GD who the modder is. I modded Kohan and it was all about the numbers. You probably have never seen a template for a mod in your life. You just talk the talk but don't know how to walk the walk. lol IGMO.

I've modded games like Rome Total War, Spartan and many others and it's ALL about the numbers. It has nothing to do with 'improving the AI" Surely you know what an AI is? lol Every games mod "adjusts the numbers" they do not "improve" any AI intelligence.

Perhaps you should consider Mark Twain's very good advice to the effect that sometimes it is better to keep your mouth shut and be thought a fool than open it and remove all doubt.

Different games use different methods to implement AI. Some, GalCiv2 for example, implement it in straight C++. In this case it is very difficult to modify AI behaviour. However not that many games do that and indeed I understand GalCiv3 uses XML files exptensively to code AI behaviour, a fact that has already been taken advantage of to mod the game.

But one of the most common approaches to AI programming is to use Lua. You will see Lua all over the place in games - Paradox use it extensively, you will find screeds of Lua scripts in games like CK and EU. Lua scripts are text files that can easily be modded becasue they are not pre-compiled, they are interpreted, and the syntax is very similar to C++ or Java meaning they can do far more than define raw numerical data.

Distant Worlds Universe also uses Lua I beleive. So any aspect of AI behaviour that is coded in Lua can be changed. That is why it is coded in Lua.

[Rystar]

I'm going to preface this with the fact I've never tried to mod this game, but I am a developer. I've also skimmed through the modding guide so I have a pretty good idea of what is possible.

From what I can gather, DW does not allow you add any scripting modifications (lua, python or js)... everything is done by adjusting tolerances. Those tolerances are managed through many configurations. So technically speaking, I don't think Icemania's mod is affecting the AI, so to speak.

But... algorithms can be abstracted into well designed profiles, which it appears DW does. I could write an algorithm that handles how an empire mobilizes its forces with tons of conditional logic that's baked into the code build. Or, I could make a huge amount of the data in that algorithm dynamic and put it into a config file, which ultimately allows one to manipulate the logic paths. This essentially allows a "modder" to affect how the algorithms behave via configurations, ultimately changing the behavior of the game in very non-trivial ways.

One of the things I do very often in my work is take hundreds of lines of legacy code and refactor it into configurations like we are discussing here- very often the code is very simple, it's the configurations that have the substance. Behavior of my applications can be changed in very significant ways that do not require additional builds.

Tropicalrain, I really think you are making a "bad faith" argument here. You can toe the line that you are, but it doesn't change the fact that Icemania's mod makes some extremely welcome changes to how the game behaves so I have no problems with it being called an "AI Improvement".

[Icemania]

Yes, I can't change the code ... but I can change what the AI does ... within the limits provided by the developer.

The Modding Guide was developed at release and at the time I was skeptical that I could make much of a change to AI performance. What you won't find in the Modding guide is what the developer provided AFTER release particularly the ability to fully define AI research build orders. If you have a look at the Mod's race files and look for the "Research Project Order" fields, you'll see the exact research script I've defined for each race. An easier to read version is in the excel file "AI Improvement Mod" in the Mod download. Note that without this Modding capability I would not have bothered starting the Mod at all. But the result is that I can get the AI to do exactly what I would do in-game with research, albeit with no adaptive capability.

Now with the ability to totally control the AI's research orders, changing the ship and base designs via the design template files has much more substance, because I could ensure there was a common focus with the AI's approach to both research and design. This was later enhanced by the ability to set the AI ship tactics (also not in the Modding Guide), the importance of this was emphasised by testing in various "Battle Arena" type scenarios using the Game Editor.

http://www.matrixgames.com/forums/tm.asp?m=3650767

Weapons balancing was important, because some weapons are underpowered, and the AI that uses those weapons are at a massive disadvantage, those AI become easy pickings in the Vanilla game.

I was most surprised when I started testing each parameter in the Policy files. There is no doubt this game was a massive labour of love from the developer Elliott Gibbs because there are a very wide range of changes that can be made. For example, I can give the AI improved Wonder priorities, and back that up with the right research order to get the technologies needed to build those wonders much earlier. And so on. This is the main reason why there are so many changes listed on the Mod page below.

http://www.matrixgames.com/forums/tm.asp?m=3647528

In parallel, the developer implemented various parts of my "wishlist", some of which also benefits the Vanilla game, but some were Mod specific e.g. shrinkage algorithm, enabling me to Mod the Shakturi and give them an update because the Vanilla Shakturi were being pawned by the Modded races and so on.

Would I have liked to have more access? Absolutely.

At the end of the day it's about results. I've had 100's of messages publicly and privately from players that have found the AI more difficult to play against. The majority of my own testing involved pitting modded and non-modded races against each other for long games (early game obviously factors like population growth of the race often dominate) and the improvements were clear. I never lost a game on Extreme difficulty with the Vanilla game, indeed in some games I didn't lose a single military ship, but I have lost with the AI Improvement Mod.

[Rystar]

Icemania, I hope you didn't feel you needed to explain yourself to me. I was just trying to make the point that you don't necessisarily need scripting changes to make considerable improvements to how this game performs. Your work speaks for itself.

[Icemania]

Thanks Bob. I just felt it was worth noting the Modding guide was never updated with some significant Modding capabilities that came after release ... and then took the opportunity to provide more detail for others. It should be clear to all that what Tropicalrain has been saying is totally baseless and misleading.

[Eric Cartman]

I just bought this game and I'm about to try it. However, I'm wondering, what is the best graphics mod out there? I tried to download GEM by Martian, but it downloads unbelievably slow. Like a couple of k's a second lol. Not sure if the servers are busy or what. Anyway, might aswell ask if there's an even better mod out there while I try the vanilla game.

[Siddha]

Man that Tropicalrain really is a troll
You are very patient to bother with him at all Icemania

[Rystar]

Publicado originalmente por Siddha:

Man that Tropicalrain really is an ignoramus troll
You are very patient to bother with him at all Icemania

I honestly don't know why he picked a fight with icemania here. He's been much more civil in other threads.

[Baron Bierserker]

Mathematics is the language in which God Allmighty created everything, so please accept the fact, that you yourself, are consisting of a complex system of numbers.

PS: I dont want to take anyones side, I just keep an eye on the development of the rightous conciousness, Deus Vult!

[Dakkon]

I came here to get suggestions for mods to explore. Instead I found another thread made pointless with useless bickering about nothing.

[Rystar]

Publicado originalmente por Dakkon:

I came here to get suggestions for mods to explore. Instead I found another thread made pointless with useless bickering about nothing.

Your contribution to this thread is invaluable, Dakkon. Thanks for all the good times.

[Icemania]

The question of what Mods to recommend really depends on what you what from a Mod as there are a wide variety. Granted, some Mods look old, Universe was released more than 18 months ago, but a lot of those older Mods (for Universe) are fully functional.

The Mod that is traditionally considered essential by adding races and so on is the Extended Mod, while Beyond Extended takes it to a whole other level:

http://www.matrixgames.com/forums/tm.asp?m=3141149

http://www.matrixgames.com/forums/tm.asp?m=3657646

Obviously I'll recommend the AI Improvement Mod (albeit biased as the author) specifically the version based on Extended. Beyonf Extended uses most of the AI Improvement Mod improvements.

http://www.matrixgames.com/forums/tm.asp?m=3647528

In terms of theme overhauls, personally I've enjoyed the Star Trek and Warhammer Mods:

http://www.matrixgames.com/forums/tm.asp?m=3794736

http://www.matrixgames.com/forums/tm.asp?m=3640729

In terms of research tree overhauls, there is some impressive work with the Starfall and Research Unleashed Mods:

http://www.matrixgames.com/forums/tm.asp?m=3663923

http://www.matrixgames.com/forums/tm.asp?m=3807911

Two cautions. Firstly I downloaded these some time ago so can't confirm current ability to download. And secondly there are plenty of other Mods that I've probably missed.