Lethal League

Lethal League

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K9999 Jan 5, 2016 @ 1:31pm
A small plea from a Dice picker
@Team Reptile

Please delete up to superjump from the game. It is enough that you can instantly superjump by pressing down, the up option adds little or nothing. It doesn't appear to affect keyboard players at all, but many controller players hold up while jumping to guarantee a neutral swing in the air. This input now causes dice to superjump without swinging at all because the swing input gets eaten by crouch frames. Not only is it redundant with the down to superjump change, but also it ONLY makes more trouble for controller players (as far as I can tell).

I'm sure that some will come in and say 'get better' or 'get used to it,' but I've talked to a lot of people that regularly pick dice and they either never use this up option anyway or they are having more troubles from this feature than any boost to quality of Dice life. If there are any real defenses for this input remaining in the game, I'd love to hear them.
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Showing 1-15 of 15 comments
Bitnix (Banned) Jan 5, 2016 @ 1:53pm 
Get Good Get Keyboard -_-
Real talk the upjump change hasnt really benefited how anyone plays (the opposite for controller players seems to be the case), either way older players were well used to downjump input, whilst new players were either unaware, or not actively thinking of how to use it anyway.

If you were going to change dice, at least find some way around his deadframes on SJ~, but thats for another thread #serchiot
aTastyT0ast Jan 5, 2016 @ 1:56pm 
I can't play dice anymore since the new patch, because my UP and JUMP key is the same and it keeps eating my bunt inputs when im (super)jumping every time.
Last edited by aTastyT0ast; Jan 5, 2016 @ 1:56pm
Serchiot Jan 6, 2016 @ 8:15am 
Sorry to tell you K9, but I personally love this change. It finally enabled Up-Angle -> Instant Super Jumps and continous superjumping without accidentally dropping it. I do not have the problems that you are talking about at ALL though.
apple pie Jan 6, 2016 @ 3:23pm 
After the update dice is nearly unplayable for me. I always accidentally super jump which messes up my swing/bunt follow up. I also never use this feature on purpose, it is an accident every time.
Last edited by apple pie; Jan 6, 2016 @ 3:24pm
Thanks to this update, I can play Dice now. Thanks, Reptile!
K9999 Jan 6, 2016 @ 6:12pm 
@Serchiot

Continuous SJ works by holding down when you touch the ground just the same as up after the patch. I've done a bit of experimentation in training mode and it doesnt seem that up-sj is really faster than down-sj for the upangle follow up. This is because if you press down and then a before any crouchframes come out, Dice will do an instant crouchjump same as if you press up and jump - the timing window here is about as tight as lowspeed parrys, so if you can parry at lower speeds you can do this input. The upangle bounces the same number of times by the time Dice is airborne in either case. Since the down change and the additional up input are symmetrical, everything you can do with up to SJ is easily doable with down.

I did notice that it was just slightly easier to bunt balls low to the stage with up-SJ. I'm not sure if that really makes a difference though. I'm glad that at least some Dice pickers like the change, but most I've talked to either ignore the new feature or don't like it.

I've been testing various things out and practicing with it and while I'm sure I will get used to it in time, I don't really think I'll ever use it, since down to SJ is already muscle memory and it accomplishes everything I see that needs to happen for Dice, especially with the patch changes to the down-to-SJ input to make it user-friendly enough to be at least equal to up SJ.
Last edited by K9999; Jan 6, 2016 @ 6:18pm
Mordtziel Jan 6, 2016 @ 9:09pm 
Most people will need time to adjust. When you've been set in your ways for months, a simple change like this can be jarring to get used to.
Last edited by Mordtziel; Jan 6, 2016 @ 9:09pm
TR_Dion  [developer] Jan 7, 2016 @ 6:03am 
Thanks for the feedback everybody. I'm happy to hear that at least the down-SJ change works a bit better. It seems most like the change because that was included, instead of the fact that up-SJ was added (correct me if I'm wrong). In that case, and with it being annoying, I'm considering to drop it.
Prom3 Jan 7, 2016 @ 7:09am 
I like the up super jump for dice if it were easier to buffer attacks while pressing up kind of like how the new down SJ is.
Serchiot Jan 7, 2016 @ 7:34am 
So I just went into training and I have to say that I legit did not know that you can hold down-SJ as well. I actually like holding the down-SJ a lot more as well... :letsroll:
Also, a weird part about up-SJ is that you don't SJ at all if you don't hold Jump... which made me drop SJs from time to time and is just weird to me, might actually as well just remove it.
there are lots of dice b&b options with less input barrier through this change
empty tap sj is a very short jump and your total potential options are higher (especially with (tap)charge neutral)
normal jump to neutral is just as easy as it always was because the input is entirely stick neutral
sj rising bunt is worlds better for less practiced dice players, which is almost as core to the character's kit as not winning sets
all in all this is almost entirely good, the only negatives are 'get used to it' changes for bad habits, which are totally overshadowed by immediate benefits anyway.
it's nice to argue over dice quality of life changes again though, definitely one of my favs.
Mordtziel Jan 8, 2016 @ 11:18am 
You know what...after spending more time with it, I'm'a join the side that says this change should burn in hell. It's become a total pain in the ass to just do a short hop up angle >.>
K9999 Jan 8, 2016 @ 11:25am 
@Ugraum

I can see how using up is slightly more intuitive, but I don't think the inputs are any easier. The instant down-to-superjump has a tighter timing window but offers just the same flexibility.

Normal jump to neutral stops being stick neutral when you jump forwards or backwards, in which case holding up would (absent up-to-sj) guarantee a neutral over a smash, otherwise you need to reset your stick to neutral before swinging. Every other character has the option to hold up to guarantee a neutral while airborne, so this is hardly a bad habit as it is an input otherwise portable throughout the rest of the cast.
Last edited by K9999; Jan 8, 2016 @ 11:32am
ALL CAPS Jan 8, 2016 @ 11:38am 
Not that it matters, but I'm digging the new superjump. I find myself usually just using either one, but I do like the ease of access that the Up+Jump command gives. However, I can see arguements for both sides.
Pull Jan 8, 2016 @ 1:11pm 
https://youtu.be/nWbj-N46SpI I don't even know what the arguments are anymore but ♥♥♥♥ man
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Date Posted: Jan 5, 2016 @ 1:31pm
Posts: 15