My main problems with Season 2. (Spoilers)

[brasch]

A couple years after these games came out, I'm now finally playing them.

I consider TWD Season 1 to be a masterpiece of storytelling and character development, and I'd probably give it a 9/10 at least. Season 2, however, I'd probably either give a solid 7.5/10 or 8/10.

The reason being is because there are a bunch of flaws in this Season. Most people reading this probably know this, but I thought I'd share my opinions on why this Season suffered more than Season 1.
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#1 : The characters.
Ok, so, let's just get this out of the way : the only characters I really, really cared about this Season, as in the new ones, were Luke, Alvin, and Rebecca. I felt they had some pretty decent development, especially Luke. Luke was probably my favourite, because he was really likeable, was a pretty solid leader, and knew how to help in several ways. Very resourceful.

Now, onto the rest. Nick, while I did like, was only relevant in Episodes 1 & 2. After that, he barely appears in Episode 3 (if you convinced Walter to forgive Nick), and he dies offscreen in Episode 4, and you have to put him down as a walker. I actually forgot he was in the Season after Episode 3, really.

Sarah, well, was really annoying. I mean, I did save her in Episode 4 because I felt it was right, even if it was the minority choice. But after saving her, I felt I should've left her, because she became nearly useless to the group, because, when they were on the observation deck, she just stood there, doing nothing. Then she died.

I heard someone talk about how Telltale said Sarah was seeing the world though "rose-coloured glasses", and then after her father died, she realized how bad the world really was, and she couldn't handle it. I found that to be really interesting.

For Carlos, I liked him. Other than that, there isn't much to say about him.

The rest of the characters, like Bonnie, Mike, Pete, Walter, Sarita, etc. were either bareable, bad, or just really, really unlikeable. I did like Carver as a villain, however. He was pretty interesting.

Season 1, however, had some great characters. Lee, Clementine, Kenny, Lilly, Omid, Christa, Ben, Carley, etc. They all felt relatable and were developed really, really well.
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#2 : The choices.
I'll keep this one brief. The choices are all over the place. Some minor-seeming choices, like holding AJ in Episode 4 after he's born, are actually major choices in the episode. And some major seeming choices, like cutting off Sarita's arm at the end of Episode 3, felt minor to me, because she dies anyways. With a situation like that, chopping off her arm wasn't going to make a difference, because, like I said, she dies anyways.

Season 1 had some legitimately tough and meaningful choices. Carley or Doug? Who will take care of Duck? Will you kill both of the St. John brothers? Will you shoot or leave Lee? Save or drop Ben? You also know when you're making a tough choice right off the bat, unlike in Season 2. Who you give food to in Episode 2 of Season 1 is also a big choice, even if it is more subtle.
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#3 : No matter what you choose to do, some characters will always die.
First off, Nick. He shoots Matthew (Walter's partner) on the bridge, and you can either convince Walter to forgive or not to forgive Nick. If you do, he lives until Episode 4, and if you don't, he dies in the walker attack a bit later. If you convince Walter to forgive him, it doesn't really matter, because after an Episode where it feels like he doesn't even exist (Episode 3), he dies offscreen in Episode 4.

Next up, Alvin. Alvin can either be shot by Carver in Episode 2 after he kills Walter, or live until Episode 3, and die a somewhat heroic death, buying time for Clementine to get out of Carver's office. While this one is much more important than Nick's fate imo, his death will still happen, regardless of what you do.

Lastly, Luke. I already covered Sarita in my second point, but this one...this one just sucks. It feels like a punch to the gut. I tried to save Luke on the ice, but, as most know, he drowns. Even if you cover him, he stills drowns. It feels like a no-win situation.

The same argument could be made for Ben in Season 1. While it is true he dies either way, either from falling to his death in the bell tower in Episode 4, or falling off a balcony and impaling himself in Episode 5, that choice feels like you just saved him, and he'll be ok, even if you know what will happen to him priot to playing Episode 5. Also, if you save him, you get, imo, one of the best character development moments in the entire game, when he stands up to Kenny.
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#4 : Kenny vs. Jane.
Ok, this is probably my biggest problem with the Season. First off, I let Jane die, as she hid AJ from Kenny to prove a point. That point being that Kenny was dangerous.

Now, the reason why I didn't shoot Kenny was this : I've known Kenny since Episode 1 of Season 1. He's always been a guy I could rely on, and he's probably one of, if not the best character in Season 1.

Even though Lee is awesome, Kenny represents how flawed we all are, and how broken and how dark people can become after something traumatic happens to them. Kenny lost Katjaa and Duck, and that messed him up. Just like Lee represents the good in all of us, even if we all do terrible things, there's good in all of us, Clementine represents the innocence that we're born with, but we lose eventually, no matter what way, etc.

Yes, Kenny was a ♥♥♥♥ to Arvo, and scared a lot of the group, and was leaning towards eventually becoming unstable, and could be considered the unintentional antagonist for the rest of the Season for his actions, but, deep inside his mind, there was a good man. We saw that in Season 1 until he lost Katjaa and Duck. While he was still looking out for mostly everyone, he became brash and impulsive. That really shows in Season 2. But he could be forgiven for that, considering it was Jane's fault the fight even happened.

And Jane? While she taught Clem some actually really important tips to survive, she was manipulative and a liar, and the best example of that? She hid AJ, pretended she had to kill him, and started a major fight with Kenny.

But what is my main problem with this whole situation? Well, it felt like fake tension.

What I mean by that is this : Kenny and Jane didn't really fight as much as Luke and Kenny did. When all that was left of the group was Clem, Kenny, and Jane, after Bonnie, Mike, and Arvo hightailed it out of there, they suddenly just started fighting constantly. Meanwhile, Luke and Kenny had beef between them since Episode 2, where they first met. That showed in Episodes 2, 3, and 4, and a bit of 5, until Luke's death. Especially Episode 4.

The original fight was supposed to be Kenny and Luke. Which would've made a lot more sense, and would've been an actually tough choice, but Telltale changed it at the last minute, and, even after watching Episode 5 for the first time back when it came out, I still don't know why they did that.

So my overall main flaws with the fight are that it felt like fake tension, it was too easy to decide who was going to die (imo), and that it just didn't feel right. I should've felt scared and uncertain at what was going to happen, but in reality, I just blankly stared at the screen, doing what I had to do, waiting for the "Look Away" option.

Also, I chose to stay at Wellington, and yeah, I know most of the endings don't matter in Season 3, because Kenny dies if you stay with him, Jane kills herself, Wellington gets overrun, etc.
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So, there you have it. My main flaws with Season 2. Now, if you're still wondering why I would give it a 7.5/10 or 8/10 even after all of this, it's because, well, I felt there was enough to make up for it. The soundtrack was also pretty good imo, especially the Kenny/Jane fight one.

If I get Season 3 (which will probably happen eventually), I might make a follow-up to this.

[fushigi friend]

2 of my BIGGEST gripes with Season 2 is:

1) Luke dies no matter what. One of the only likable characters in that game and they killed him
2) Kenny. He was barable in Season 1, but he was a total jerk in season 2. He shoots carver if you tell him not to, he tries to break out of his bonds while in the truck if you tell him not to, he gets angry if you kill his about-to-turn wife, and he is one thing I can never forgive someone for.
A racist.

[Toothpaste 800]

Yes, I enjoyed season 2, But not as much as season 1. Season 1, your choices actually mattered. The story was actually tailored how you play. Season 2 just did not do that. Everyone dies in the end. And in season 1, they did that too, but in a different way. Like the Carley or Doug choice. They both die, but one or the other stick around longer, making your choice matter. Like you said, Where you cut off or not cut of Saritas hand, She dies in the end. And in this game, Kenny is just a jerk. Sure, His wife and son died, But NO ONE yells at my clementine! And then there is the Jane or Kenny choice. That was just un-fair. I would have enjoyed it much more if it was like Luke and Kenny. Making it more Dramatic. Do not get me wrong, I love both games! Just the second season wasnt as good as season one.

[Neopatra]

1. Argee Carver what made the game a little more interesting to the game

2. I kind of regret saving Sarah I thought she wasn't actually not going to died and I be yay someone at clementine age would be able to grow up with hopefully toughen up but nope xD

3. Luke should have more of a better death then just falling through the ice that was very depressing because he was my fav thought out season 2. Do not worry I know why he fell through but to be honest I thought he would be in season 3. Unlike everyone walking dead game you like that character So much they wind up dying so not fair xD. Am starting to like the baby but worried that he get bit and become a zombie in season 3 x3.

4. Jane was Jane I find Jane to be more jerky then Kenny xD. I know what she was trying prove but still poor AJ xD

5. yea I did some research on what happens if you choose the Varity of options I have to say they are kind of weak death to the both of them :/.

[Heshynver]

Originally posted by A Person (s p o o k):

2 of my BIGGEST gripes with Season 2 is:

1) Luke dies no matter what. One of the only likable characters in that game and they killed him
2) Kenny. He was barable in Season 1, but he was a total jerk in season 2. He shoots carver if you tell him not to, he tries to break out of his bonds while in the truck if you tell him not to, he gets angry if you kill his about-to-turn wife, and he is one thing I can never forgive someone for.
A racist.

For me Kenny was probably the best written character, he also might be one of smartest and he was well suited for being leader.
On the flip side I'd expect most people to just kill themselves after their family being killed and than friends and girlfriend... He managed well, in season two it took him two days to get back on track... If only moron Jane could stop poking him.

[Heshynver]

Originally posted by A Person (s p o o k):

2 of my BIGGEST gripes with Season 2 is:

1) Luke dies no matter what. One of the only likable characters in that game and they killed him
2) Kenny. He was barable in Season 1, but he was a total jerk in season 2. He shoots carver if you tell him not to, he tries to break out of his bonds while in the truck if you tell him not to, he gets angry if you kill his about-to-turn wife, and he is one thing I can never forgive someone for.
A racist.

1. Luke was mostly useless through the game, he was just a nice guy number.2456#, he helped you at begining alnogside Pete but later on he ♥♥♥♥♥♥ up big time twice. He failed his own plan with walkie talkie and get beaten, and leter bangs with Jane while he should check area for walkers and we get ambushed (if he did what he supossed to do we could know about walkers coming and just hide in the watch tower), in the end he could't even watch his steps.

2. Kenny in both S1 and S2 has good qualities for a leader, he makes plans that actualy work (as we know from wiki he was a formal leader or co-leader of group) he wasn't afraid to take actions and had many usefull abbilities (one of most viable are mechanic skills, fixing cars), we also can ausme that he became leader of the lodge group. If people could listen to him few times we could end up better in season2.

Dunno about what situation you're talking about with Carver, while he attacked, you could convince him to not shoot by telling "think about Sarita". But if you mean him finishing carver... cmon you can't take away mans revange, nplus leaving Carver alive would be just stupid.

Breaking out of the bonds I can give you, he could wait with that.

Killing Sarita is preety simple to understand if you have something under scull, he was in deep shock as his love just get attacked by zombies and you've just smacked her with axe in front of his face, depression aint easy. Later on he apologized and admited you did the good thing.

Racist?

[fushigi friend]

Originally posted by Mr. Wood:

Originally posted by A Person (s p o o k):

2 of my BIGGEST gripes with Season 2 is:

1) Luke dies no matter what. One of the only likable characters in that game and they killed him
2) Kenny. He was barable in Season 1, but he was a total jerk in season 2. He shoots carver if you tell him not to, he tries to break out of his bonds while in the truck if you tell him not to, he gets angry if you kill his about-to-turn wife, and he is one thing I can never forgive someone for.
A racist.

1. Luke was mostly useless through the game, he was just a nice guy number.2456#, he helped you at begining alnogside Pete but later on he ♥♥♥♥♥♥ up big time twice. He failed his own plan with walkie talkie and get beaten, and leter bangs with Jane while he should check area for walkers and we get ambushed (if he did what he supossed to do we could know about walkers coming and just hide in the watch tower), in the end he could't even watch his steps.

2. Kenny in both S1 and S2 has good qualities for a leader, he makes plans that actualy work (as we know from wiki he was a formal leader or co-leader of group) he wasn't afraid to take actions and had many usefull abbilities (one of most viable are mechanic skills, fixing cars), we also can ausme that he became leader of the lodge group. If people could listen to him few times we could end up better in season2.

Dunno about what situation you're talking about with Carver, while he attacked, you could convince him to not shoot by telling "think about Sarita". But if you mean him finishing carver... cmon you can't take away mans revange, nplus leaving Carver alive would be just stupid.

Breaking out of the bonds I can give you, he could wait with that.

Killing Sarita is preety simple to understand if you have something under scull, he was in deep shock as his love just get attacked by zombies and you've just smacked her with axe in front of his face, depression aint easy. Later on he apologized and admited you did the good thing.

Racist? :unclog:

He was outside of the lodge pointing a gun at carver and I told him not to shoot but he did it anyways.

And yes, racist. What, are you implying it isn't racist to call a russian kid a "commie" multiple times?

[Heshynver]

Originally posted by A Person (s p o o k):

Originally posted by Mr. Wood:

1. Luke was mostly useless through the game, he was just a nice guy number.2456#, he helped you at begining alnogside Pete but later on he ♥♥♥♥♥♥ up big time twice. He failed his own plan with walkie talkie and get beaten, and leter bangs with Jane while he should check area for walkers and we get ambushed (if he did what he supossed to do we could know about walkers coming and just hide in the watch tower), in the end he could't even watch his steps.

2. Kenny in both S1 and S2 has good qualities for a leader, he makes plans that actualy work (as we know from wiki he was a formal leader or co-leader of group) he wasn't afraid to take actions and had many usefull abbilities (one of most viable are mechanic skills, fixing cars), we also can ausme that he became leader of the lodge group. If people could listen to him few times we could end up better in season2.

Dunno about what situation you're talking about with Carver, while he attacked, you could convince him to not shoot by telling "think about Sarita". But if you mean him finishing carver... cmon you can't take away mans revange, nplus leaving Carver alive would be just stupid.

Breaking out of the bonds I can give you, he could wait with that.

Killing Sarita is preety simple to understand if you have something under scull, he was in deep shock as his love just get attacked by zombies and you've just smacked her with axe in front of his face, depression aint easy. Later on he apologized and admited you did the good thing.

Racist?

He was outside of the lodge pointing a gun at carver and I told him not to shoot but he did it anyways.

And yes, racist. What, are you implying it isn't racist to call a russian kid a "commie" multiple times?

As I said you can stop him from doing that by telling him "think about Sarita", he looks at his gun and surrenders without shooting.

Excuse me but from when, ethnicity = race? Ethnicity = ethnicity, race = race... He was a white guy so if you really want to make it racist he should say something like cracker, whity or something along the lines, but again to say that Kenny would have to be black.
And calling him commie, well russians were communists, and it seems like they still have something from it in them, plus cmon he just brought his gang to take all of our staff (something that commies tend to, to make it "common").
Any adjustments to my other points?

[fushigi friend]

Originally posted by Mr. Wood:

Originally posted by A Person (s p o o k):

He was outside of the lodge pointing a gun at carver and I told him not to shoot but he did it anyways.

And yes, racist. What, are you implying it isn't racist to call a russian kid a "commie" multiple times?

As I said you can stop him from doing that by telling him "think about Sarita", he looks at his gun and surrenders without shooting.

Excuse me but from when, ethnicity = race? Ethnicity = ethnicity, race = race... He was a white guy so if you really want to make it racist he should say something like cracker, whity or something along the lines, but again to say that Kenny would have to be black.
And calling him commie, well russians were communists, and it seems like they still have something from it in them, plus cmon he just brought his gang to take all of our staff (something that commies tend to, to make it "common").
Any adjustments to my other points?

who cares if it """"""""""""""""""""technically isn't racism""""""""""""""""", it's enexcusable.

[Heshynver]

Originally posted by A Person (s p o o k):

Originally posted by Mr. Wood:

As I said you can stop him from doing that by telling him "think about Sarita", he looks at his gun and surrenders without shooting.

Excuse me but from when, ethnicity = race? Ethnicity = ethnicity, race = race... He was a white guy so if you really want to make it racist he should say something like cracker, whity or something along the lines, but again to say that Kenny would have to be black.
And calling him commie, well russians were communists, and it seems like they still have something from it in them, plus cmon he just brought his gang to take all of our staff (something that commies tend to, to make it "common").
Any adjustments to my other points?

who cares if it """"""""""""""""""""technically isn't racism""""""""""""""""", it's enexcusable.

If it isn't then why even bring it up? Same as trying to steal from us, and almost killing our group is inexcusable.
I gave few other points for the matter, more important than some dumb insults.

[Heshynver]

Originally posted by a person #KeepRandomCrits:

Originally posted by Mr. Wood:

As I said you can stop him from doing that by telling him "think about Sarita", he looks at his gun and surrenders without shooting.

Excuse me but from when, ethnicity = race? Ethnicity = ethnicity, race = race... He was a white guy so if you really want to make it racist he should say something like cracker, whity or something along the lines, but again to say that Kenny would have to be black.
And calling him commie, well russians were communists, and it seems like they still have something from it in them, plus cmon he just brought his gang to take all of our staff (something that commies tend to, to make it "common").
Any adjustments to my other points?

who cares if it """"""""""""""""""""technically isn't racism""""""""""""""""", it's enexcusable.

Just came her to correct myself after all this time, political views doesn't = race, if it was so, then calling someone liberal would be racist as well since it's baisicaly the same thing as a commie.

[St. Haborym]

My main problem with s2 of this is how the adults are so gd incompetent that they need Clementine to spoonfeed them and change their diapers. She's like Solid Snake and everyone else are those bumbling goons from the first MGS who're so dumb that you can hide from them underneath a cardboard box.

[Heshynver]

Originally posted by Hobo St.:

My main problem with s2 of this is how the adults are so gd incompetent that they need Clementine to spoonfeed them and change their diapers. She's like Solid Snake and everyone else are those bumbling goons from the first game who're so dumb that you can hide from them underneath a cardboard box.

That's because TT forgot that they changed Lee to Clementine and didn't know how to make game interestig from perspective of child, so they just made her act as adult in hope noone would see it.

[Vile]

Originally posted by Rip Rick Mays:

2 of my BIGGEST gripes with Season 2 is:

1) Luke dies no matter what. One of the only likable characters in that game and they killed him
2) Kenny. He was barable in Season 1, but he was a total jerk in season 2. He shoots carver if you tell him not to, he tries to break out of his bonds while in the truck if you tell him not to, he gets angry if you kill his about-to-turn wife, and he is one thing I can never forgive someone for.
A racist.

Yep because racists befriend Black people, risk their lives for them and stand up for them (Season 1, episode 1), care about half Black kids (AJ and Clementine), and will marry a woman from India. Yeah Kenny was totally racist, lmao

Season 2 was absolute ♥♥♥♥ and was pointless. The main group should have been the 400 Days group. I absolutely didn't care about the Cabin group. Mike was ok until he became a shill in the end.

Too many inconsistencies here with this season, it was just bad. Everyone was hate Kenny no matter how illogical it was. They berated him for treating Arvo bad and tried to make him out to be Carver, but Arvo was the real scum. He got his group to open fire with guns on Clem's group and everyone forgets that 5 seconds later.

The ending with Jane was laughable. Of course being in charge of a baby, putting it in danger in the cold around walkers, then lying about it being dead and mocking a person would provoke them. Kenny even notes that he would have stopped the fight had she said that AJ was ok, that's logical.

New Frontier had many missteps, yet it had a lot of great moments that rivaled Season 1 at times. Season 2 was a complete waste in every way. I would have preferred to start with Kenny's group even. The cabin group were useless mouths to feed as Molly says about Crawford's motto in Season 1. Jane was an off brand Molly without any of her likable and good traits.

I'd say that leaving with Kenny to go to Wellington and then Kenny forcing Clementine and AJ to stay there was as emotional to me as when Lee said goodbye to Clementine in Season 1. Though I wished that Wellington saw how good Kenny was to beg for them to take the kids and tell him they have room for one more also

[󠀡󠀡]

Sorry buddy but you're way off on some stuff... Here it comes.

Nick is literally the worst character in the whole series, Larry or Sarah are light years less trash.
Unlike Ben, he's just a blank bland troll with no character to even develop or personality worth even pissing on while he's on fire.
Not only does he shoot you the first second you see him, have him ♥♥♥♥♥ and moan constantly, happens to ignore Pete resulting in xyz, puts you in danger by getting drunk and throwing glass around 50 zombies, "saves you" by distracting the 50 zombies even tho he didn't need to, doesn't die, makes you think he died, doesn't die, whines more, but also he kills Mathew for no reason "Did I hit him? Where is he?" excuse "He drew first" NO HE ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥ DID NOT, do I have to continue?

Kenny is almost as bad and unlikeable (it will take ages to point out all his ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥ from S1) he gets Walter killed, whines and treats literally everyone like ♥♥♥♥ through out the whole game (S1 is not an excuse), the whole russian kid clown fiesta, the whole Jane situation.
The only differences with Nick is he stays in the series longer, which tricks you to think he's supposed to be a "good character", and he at least has a personality (a ♥♥♥♥♥♥ one, but better than nothing)

Great characters: Clem, Jane, Luke, Pete? Carver, and Bonnie.

For S1 here: Lee, Clem, Molly, Carley, Katcha, Charles? Ben? and Christa.

[john doe]

yes season 2 had some nasty flaws but i think we can all agree that its still WAY much better then a new frontier.