Since this will be a roguelike/lite...

[DJDiceZ]

Great! There is serious potential for an amazing game, i have no doubts about that. That being said, when i look at the screenshots (early screenshots, i know), i'm reminded instantly of the "generic stat upgrade" syndrome of roguelikes.

I just want to say, if you are gonna make a roguelike, make sure you make the progression, the passives/upgrades and the guns actually fun/varied/synergistic. Not just "this is the same element" but actually "these two combinations have an unexpected chain reaction".

Deep Rock Galactic Survivor is held back severely by it aswell so i really hope to not see it there. I really don't want to see another roguelike with great core gameplay being brought down by boring numerical upgrades like +10% damage, +10 HP, +10% movement speed, +10% recharge rate, +10 fire damage, etc...

It would be far preferable to make it like risk of rain, crab champion, isaac, noita, gungeon, hades, nova drift, etc... where each item and weapon has its own identity, its own stats and special effects.

There's a lot of ways you could make the game more interesting with "artifacts/items" that are in-line with the universe rather than just plain upgrade cards survivor game style. It's far more interesting to find "kursite gem: enemies explode on death, transmitting any status effect over" rather than a glorified lootbox with 4 cards that have +10 damage (common upgrade) +20 max health (rare upgrade) + 50 damage (LEGENDARY UPGRADE, WOW)! +10 pick up radius (common upgrade).

It's one of the things that will make the difference between DRG:Rogue Core, just another roguelike with 70-80% ratings vs DRG:Rogue Core, the new revolutionary roguelike that gets overwhelmingly positive reviews.

[jrswarrior10]

Originally posted by DJDiceZ:

Great! There is serious potential for an amazing game, i have no doubts about that. That being said, when i look at the screenshots (early screenshots, i know), i'm reminded instantly of the "generic stat upgrade" syndrome of roguelikes.

I just want to say, if you are gonna make a roguelike, make sure you make the progression, the passives/upgrades and the guns actually fun/varied/synergistic. Not just "this is the same element" but actually "these two combinations have an unexpected chain reaction".

Deep Rock Galactic Survivor is held back severely by it aswell so i really hope to not see it there. I really don't want to see another roguelike with great core gameplay being brought down by boring numerical upgrades like +10% damage, +10 HP, +10% movement speed, +10% recharge rate, +10 fire damage, etc...

It would be far preferable to make it like risk of rain, crab champion, isaac, noita, gungeon, hades, nova drift, etc... where each item and weapon has its own identity, its own stats and special effects.

There's a lot of ways you could make the game more interesting with "artifacts/items" that are in-line with the universe rather than just plain upgrade cards survivor game style. It's far more interesting to find "kursite gem: enemies explode on death, transmitting any status effect over" rather than a glorified lootbox with 4 cards that have +10 damage (common upgrade) +20 max health (rare upgrade) + 50 damage (LEGENDARY UPGRADE, WOW)! +10 pick up radius (common upgrade).

It's one of the things that will make the difference between DRG:Rogue Core, just another roguelike with 70-80% ratings vs DRG:Rogue Core, the new revolutionary roguelike that gets overwhelmingly positive reviews.

Not sure if you've seen the livestream or not, but based of what was said I think that more unique and specific upgrades would be challenging based of what the devs showed in the stream which was a pool of 4 upgrades and one health or ammo boost. However, I agree 100 percent, the unique and game changing upgrades are one of the best parts of DRG, and I really hope they in rogue core as well.

[DJDiceZ]

Originally posted by jrswarrior10:

based of what was said I think that more unique and specific upgrades would be challenging based of what the devs showed in the stream which was a pool of 4 upgrades and one health or ammo boost.

Which sadly means it will probably just be uninspired bandwagoning on the roguelike train. I really don't get that, if the devs don't want to actually design a roguelike, don't design a roguelike, you know. Just make it a DLC or a sequel to DRG as another arcade FPS, or campaign based, or something. If it's challenging then don't do it, or do it anyway and take on the challenge, you don't make good games by playing it safe.

It's just fundamentally misunderstanding what roguelikes are about, they are not about generic and straightforward RPG style progression condensed into short rounds, but the exact opposite. It's all about interesting strategical choices, diversity, unpredictability, progress through player skill and knowledge instead of gameplay and numerical elements.

The reason games like Isaac or Slay the Spire (and all of the other that have managed to reach the same kind of caliber) made people see what roguelikes can be is because the interactions between passive effects have incredible depth, and the procedurally generated elements and obstacles are designed intricately to give the players interesting problems to solve, and a wide selection of creative solutions to solve them, aswell as making every round feel unique, replayable and different.

Any time you'd encounter a new combination of items, weapons or such, you wouldn't be able to predict what wild thing might happen as a result, and trying to find out what crazy thing you can pull off is one of the best minigames in and of itself within roguelikes.

Same issue with roguelites, the meta progression has to serve a greater purpose than just "making the game easier/beatable". So many roguelikes and roguelites just... miss the point entirely, and i can tell caution is strongly advised for Rogue Core aswell lol.

Plus, with the arrival of Vampire Survivor and the subgenres it spawned, game devs and game designers even more so missed the point of its very clevely and tightly designed formula, where the passive boosts are acquired in a specific way and choosing them isn't as mindless as it appears, rather than just choosing the obviously numerically superior upgrade every level which has been a plague on the genre.

Nothing is set in stone and only time will tell.