Card Counting

[mjs^]

Will i be banned if i do it

[Monarch]

I guess if you can do that brain wise, no one can prove it. By using a 3rd party script, it can and probably will lead up to a ban.

[PlasticIcon]

If there's a third party script, I'd like to know about it. Because using a balanced count with no discard tray = instant migraine. I can do it, but I drop the count constantly as people show up and drop out of the game, and the multiple of cards dealt out with each round keeps changing. And I have a hard time trusting unbalanced counts - say I'm two decks in, and the count is -5, is that a heavy deck? A light deck? There are a ton of borderline plays that you're going to be in the dark about.

But as far as I know there's no ban on card counting. Where did this all come from?

[mjs^]

Originally posted by PlasticIcon:

If there's a third party script, I'd like to know about it. Because using a balanced count with no discard tray = instant migraine. I can do it, but I drop the count constantly as people show up and drop out of the game, and the multiple of cards dealt out with each round keeps changing. And I have a hard time trusting unbalanced counts - say I'm two decks in, and the count is -5, is that a heavy deck? A light deck? There are a ton of borderline plays that you're going to be in the dark about.

But as far as I know there's no ban on card counting. Where did this all come from?

i was just wondering because i like to card count so i was just wondering but -5 i had trouble with that too

[g27_dude]

Originally posted by mmaglutac:

All blackjack tables (except for the single-deck table in VIP) play with 6 decks. If you're counting you can see when the deck is reshuffled when the yellow cut-card comes out.

You will not get banned for counting. As you can see, one of the developers even suggested it.

[76561198088183771]

While we cant stop you from counting cards, any third party or scripting tools will result in a ban.

[76561198088146082]

As long as you are not using a script to hook into our game to do the counting for you, you will not be banned. I actually find card counting facinating, and encourage people to have a look at how it works. It's very difficult to actually do and takes a lot of practice, but the general idea is that at times the deck is favorable to the player so you should bet more.

If you have sucess, let us know, I'm curious to see how effective it really is.

[PlasticIcon]

I've had success, although to make it mathematically solid I would need to demonstrate way more trials, but my time spent using unbalanced counts has definitely definitely been +EV, given the number of times I'll be in a count and stand on a 12 against a 2 knowing how 10 heavy the deck is and watch the person next to me hit their 12 and bust, or the number of blackjacks that come out when I raise my bet.

But my success with balanced counts has been rather mixed - especially since I decided to use the Mentor count because I like the fact that it trues at two decks instead of one - because you're never going to get to one deck left in a shoe game - and it makes the playing indexes much more accurate, since it's so inflated. And I do drop the count a lot - recently when raising my bets, low cards continue to fly out in a way that would be extremely unlikely if my count was accurate. Plus it pivots weirdly; +5 (or possibly 6?) is even money according to the author (given Four Kings rules), but it recommends you start ramping up your betting at +7, which is at most a quarter of a percent advantage. And you will get true counts in the 30s, using Mentor. I may switch back to the Halves - the entire point of which is to get 3-level accuracy with 1-level indices and 1-level pivots, so +1 is even money and every point after that is half a percent. Gives you a much better sense of where you're at.

I'm being detailed because someone said they were interested. Yeah, I'm fascinated with it the same way - in a casino I play poker, and my original reason for playing here - to play poker with no stakes - is moot, being a charter member of "The Blinds are Insane" club, so I play blackjack, and have fun with the numbers.

(Seriously though, the blinds? wtf).

[mjs^]

Ok thank you i was just wondering because i can card count so i was wondering but ill respond in this forum for an update on hows it going

[Cosplaygirl]

It's especially challenging when the table is full and the dealer gets a blackjack. When i do it then this is the point where i lose the count most of the time. Definitely needs some practice.

[Mental Bitcoin Disorder]

good luck

[FreakyTea]

Originally posted by PlasticIcon:

If there's a third party script, I'd like to know about it. Because using a balanced count with no discard tray = instant migraine. I can do it, but I drop the count constantly as people show up and drop out of the game, and the multiple of cards dealt out with each round keeps changing. And I have a hard time trusting unbalanced counts - say I'm two decks in, and the count is -5, is that a heavy deck? A light deck? There are a ton of borderline plays that you're going to be in the dark about.

But as far as I know there's no ban on card counting. Where did this all come from?

That's my issue. I'll get going with a count and someone always gets up or joins, and it reshuffles. Argh. Nonetheless, I still think it's a great practice tool.

[FreakyTea]

Originally posted by PlasticIcon:

I've had success, although to make it mathematically solid I would need to demonstrate way more trials, but my time spent using unbalanced counts has definitely definitely been +EV, given the number of times I'll be in a count and stand on a 12 against a 2 knowing how 10 heavy the deck is and watch the person next to me hit their 12 and bust, or the number of blackjacks that come out when I raise my bet.

But my success with balanced counts has been rather mixed - especially since I decided to use the Mentor count because I like the fact that it trues at two decks instead of one - because you're never going to get to one deck left in a shoe game - and it makes the playing indexes much more accurate, since it's so inflated. And I do drop the count a lot - recently when raising my bets, low cards continue to fly out in a way that would be extremely unlikely if my count was accurate. Plus it pivots weirdly; +5 (or possibly 6?) is even money according to the author (given Four Kings rules), but it recommends you start ramping up your betting at +7, which is at most a quarter of a percent advantage. And you will get true counts in the 30s, using Mentor. I may switch back to the Halves - the entire point of which is to get 3-level accuracy with 1-level indices and 1-level pivots, so +1 is even money and every point after that is half a percent. Gives you a much better sense of where you're at.

What do you think typical penetration is? I can usually get one or two decks in max before someone joins or leaves, and it reshuffles. It seems like any count would be almost useless under those circumstances.

I'm curious as to why it reshuffles so often. To discourage counting?

[PlasticIcon]

It only seems to reshuffle - but it doesn't. Pen is a consistent deck-and-a-half, or 75%, or 78 cards, whichever unit you like.

I learned the hard way about the false reshuffles about the third time I restarted my count when a new player entered, only to see the cut card fly out 3 hands later, after dozens of hit 12s and 16s and 15s that should have been surrendered.

When everyone stands - that's an actual reshuffle, but it will never reshuffle until it hits the cut card no matter how many people show up and leave, as long as there is someone still sitting at the table.

*Edit* I should say it's 4 1/2 decks. 1 1/2 decks is the number of cards the are cut off.

[PlasticIcon]

And yeah, I've been curious about why it simulates reshuffling. My theory is that it's either a coding side-effect, or it's to discourage back-counting, that is watching people play and only getting in when the count is high. If you sit down and hear the shuffle sound you're likely to think you have to start from 0.

[76561198088146082]

You know what, its probably a bug. I'll post it. Not sure if its supposed to reshuffle (and not shuffling) or if its just playing the shuffling animation when it shouldn't.