Wesp5.... some thoughts

[Servile_Misanthrope]

First, you're awesome and I love your patches. This is my 5th or 6th playthrough. The first time I played the game was without your patch, but every playthrough since has been with. I love it. I can't thank you enough for what you've done. I have the utmost respect for your work.

The following are, first, potential problems, or oddities, that I encountered, and second, a wishlist of what I would personally like to see implemented. This was all notes I took in a playthrough as a Tremere. I apologize for the formatting.

--I was not able to sell stake & blood to coward thin-blood on beach, or give money to fortune teller.

--I only had TWO interactions with Heather. The first was she brought a guy to the haven and the second was she claimed she was being followed. This was early game. I know in previous games it took awhile before I sent her away.

--You get Imalia's mag for $500, but she only gives $200 (maybe give an XP reward here too?). She also says she's been looking for it for years, but in other dialog it's said to be the previous year's edition.

--Revisiting Jeanette after saving her AND her sister finds her still holding her gun and looking the same as you left her. Maybe make them randomly appear (one sister or the other), which would also make sex with the one possible.

--I was unable to send club chic to "party" at the clinic.

--Guard at Skyline apartments was face down dead on an area load - I didn't kill him.

--I had issues with the water shaders displaying properly (not previously experienced), especially in the sewers and Nosferatu warrens. Most other areas were fine.

--Cash register in library is invisble from beneath (crouch position).

--Flourescent lights in library do not "turn off" when they flicker. Flourescents in Lacroix building turn on/off late game.

--Lighting issue with a bookcase in library.

--Marble around lobby doors (to the outside) in Lacroix's building are not solid; others are.

--I was not given Tremere chantry haven after handling Plague & Gargoyle. In fact, I never got a haven other than the first pawn-shop haven, despite being a brown-noser and appeasing everyone.

--TV in 6th floor suite of Empire Arms Hotel: turning it off doesn't turn off "glow" from TV.

--Various TVs and Radios can't be turned on and off. Would be nice if they could be.

--Grandfather clock ticks but pendulum doesn't swing.

--I noticed some items disappeared without interaction, nor were they picked up (watches and such).

--Had a bug where the crossbow kept auto-firing in the museum basement.

--Elevator in parking garage is not interactive. Maybe it could be (either after showdown, or on the way down - maybe make it problematic to use)?

--Giant dancing easter egg at Luckee Star motel should disappear when you leave. It's stupid to find it still there late game.

--After buying Spaz - I ask about Nines - Mercurio has two "I had questions about somebody else" dialog options.

--Door in Hallowbrook hotel (near restrooms) broke open, but door looks fine (still in place), but can pass through it.

--Repeating brown mark on texture in Lacroix penthouse is distracting.

--Transition between dialog and fade to load in cab toward end of game resulted in strange view of wheel well and exterior of taxi. I also saw car imbedded in front-end of truck while passenger in taxi.

--I failed the Dirty Dishes quest, even though I spoke to all the Giovanni candidates??

--I jotted down that I couldn't (or didn't) get Scholarship, Investigation, or Humanity bonuses via dialog, but not sure now what I was referring to.
.

**Be able to hack into payphones, ATMs, arcade machines, etc..

**Model/animation for talking on payphones - weird because there is no phone or cord...

**Be able to play arcade games like in SHENMUE. Bloodlines reminds me of SHENMUE in alot of ways. Being able to walk into the arcade on the pier (or elsewhere) and play some other game would be awesome. I know this would require serious programing into the game , but it's just an idea. Oh, System Shock 2 also has games within the game you can play.

**Lightswitches to turn local light sources on/off. I just find it strange there are no lightswitches to turn lights on and off. Also, for stealth characters, this should be key. Late game you can turn off lights in cubicles. Puzzling that, but I assume they were heading in the stealth gameplay directions, but didn't have time to finish. This could come in handy on hard to stealth missions like the museum.

**Replace mirrors with actual mirrors.

**Bodies that can be picked up, carried, and hid, so as not to alarm others. This would require making bodies permanent until area transition (at least).

**Be able to turn faucets, fountains, showers on/off. 4 no raisin!

**Be able to use vending machines to buy drinks/food (bump to stamina? or some other bonus?).

**Move mini-dozer into another part of building (or city) - room it's in has doors too small to fit it through (Lacroix building, late game).

**Make sarcophagus a little smaller - it seems awfully big.

**Add cops around scene of Sabbat attack, both inside and outside of Lacroix's building following Society of Leopold.

**Add live band to clubs and concert halls, instead of having empyty or near empty stages with wild music blasting.

**An option to make melee combat first or third-person, instead of always third-person.

**I'm in favor of forcing the player to choose fewer weapons to carry on mission. I have no idea how you'd implement this, but I think it ridiculous the amount of heavy firepower you can carry. I would recommend adding items like silencers (completely stealth - even after hitting target), or weapon mods (bigger ammo clips, more powerful ammo, etc) to replace the larger weaponry. Wouldn't it make more sense for me to run around town with a colt that fires (expensive) hollowpoint bullets than to cart around an Aug, a Shotgun, a Flamethrower, some handguns, and a bunch of blade weapons?? Also, I would suggest making extraneous weapons stackable as sellable items. If I have a weapon of a type already, then maybe I can pick up dropped #s of them to sell for cash.

[Magic Tofu Cat]

well you better get coding then.

[Wesp5]

I'm starting with your bug reports, except for when I think it were random bugs.

Originally posted by Osama_Bin_Layin_Your_Mom:

--I was not able to sell stake & blood to coward thin-blood on beach, or give money to fortune teller.

You need Persuasion > 2 for Copper and $20 for Rosa.

--I only had TWO interactions with Heather. The first was she brought a guy to the haven and the second was she claimed she was being followed.

You need to come back to her between each big main story events for interactions.

--You get Imalia's mag for $500, but she only gives $200 (maybe give an XP reward here too?).

You get XP if you do the quest voluntary. If you pissed her off, that's the penalty!

She also says she's been looking for it for years, but in other dialog it's said to be the previous year's edition.

I guess this is just a figure of speech...

--Revisiting Jeanette after saving her AND her sister finds her still holding her gun and looking the same as you left her.

The gun should be gone, but her only dialogue then is from both personalities.

--I was unable to send club chic to "party" at the clinic.

Can you be more specific?

--Guard at Skyline apartments was face down dead on an area load - I didn't kill him.

LOL! I have no idea how that could happen. Outside on the street yes, but inside, no.

--I had issues with the water shaders displaying properly (not previously experienced),

I never touched those.

--Cash register in library is invisble from beneath (crouch position).

That has already been fixed for 9.3!

--Flourescent lights in library do not "turn off" when they flicker. Flourescents in Lacroix building turn on/off late game.

I can't find the lights you refer to in Venture Tower, where are there? Everwhere else I looked it is handled like in the library.

--Lighting issue with a bookcase in library.

Known but unfixable as the model was created from scratch.

--Marble around lobby doors (to the outside) in Lacroix's building are not solid; others are.

I'll see what I can do...

--I was not given Tremere chantry haven after handling Plague & Gargoyle.

What is the value of G.Regent_Family?

--TV in 6th floor suite of Empire Arms Hotel: turning it off doesn't turn off "glow" from TV.

Same issue as with the lights, a lot of the lighting is static and can't be changed.

--Various TVs and Radios can't be turned on and off. Would be nice if they could be.

I'm rather thinking to do the same to the Empire Hotel TV to hide the issue above :)!

--Grandfather clock ticks but pendulum doesn't swing.

Nothing I can do, the model doesn't support it.

--Elevator in parking garage is not interactive. Maybe it could be (either after showdown, or on the way down - maybe make it problematic to use)?

Not possible without modifying and recompiling the whole map which I won't do.

--Giant dancing easter egg at Luckee Star motel should disappear when you leave. It's stupid to find it still there late game.

Done!

--After buying Spaz - I ask about Nines - Mercurio has two "I had questions about somebody else" dialog options.

No, you can ask about "somebody" else or "something" else!

--Repeating brown mark on texture in Lacroix penthouse is distracting.

I don't know what you mean by this, but I noticed another walk-through door frame.

--Transition between dialog and fade to load in cab toward end of game resulted in strange view of wheel well and exterior of taxi.

Known random bug, that I already tried to fix in vain.

--I failed the Dirty Dishes quest, even though I spoke to all the Giovanni candidates??

You need very high Persuasion for that, I think 8 or 9!

--I jotted down that I couldn't (or didn't) get Scholarship, Investigation, or Humanity bonuses via dialog, but not sure now what I was referring to.

You need to have the right stats and choose the correct answers for that.

[Wesp5]

Now for your suggestions. Most of them just can't be done with what we can do to Bloodlines. I'll still comment on some of them!

Originally posted by Osama_Bin_Layin_Your_Mom:

**Be able to hack into payphones, ATMs, arcade machines, etc..

There are no monitor version models of these, so no way.

**Model/animation for talking on payphones - weird because there is no phone or cord...

Sadly we can't change model animations at all!

**Be able to play arcade games like in SHENMUE.

Troika actually planned something like did, but didn't have the time to do it. No way for me to do it either!

**Lightswitches to turn local light sources on/off.

Not possible because a lot of the lighting is static and calculated while compiling the map.

**Replace mirrors with actual mirrors.

That could be done using cameras and similar like in the cab, but again not without decompiling whole levels which I am not going to do, because most don'r recompile.

**Bodies that can be picked up, carried, and hid, so as not to alarm others.

Another feature indeed planned by Troika and discarded. I don't know how I should make this possible with my limited resources.

**Be able to turn faucets, fountains, showers on/off. 4 no raisin!

No work for no raisin :)!

**Be able to use vending machines to buy drinks/food (bump to stamina? or some other bonus?).

Vampires don't eat and drink. Only some clans can emulate it which costs blood!

**Move mini-dozer into another part of building (or city) - room it's in has doors too small to fit it through (Lacroix building, late game).

I guess it was moved there via crane through the windows.

**Make sarcophagus a little smaller - it seems awfully big.

Never ;)!

**Add cops around scene of Sabbat attack, both inside and outside of Lacroix's building following Society of Leopold.

I guess they have already left at the time or are inside the building.

**Add live band to clubs and concert halls, instead of having empyty or near empty stages with wild music blasting.

No models that could be used for this.

**An option to make melee combat first or third-person, instead of always third-person.

See above. I would do this if I could!

**I'm in favor of forcing the player to choose fewer weapons to carry on mission.

Nothing I can do about this, in fact the whole inventory system is hard coded.

[-3xA'Lu©κy the disappearing act]

The water shader bug you mentioned OP, can be fixed by doing the following:

go to "C:\\Program Files\Steam\steammaps\common\Vampire the Masquerade - Bloodlines\Vampire\cfg\" AND create a new file called: autoexec.cfg. Then add this in it:
mat_drawwater "0"

Not only will this disable the buggy water-reflection animation that is caused by the alpha Source engine this game uses... but it will also give you a huge performance increase across the game because the shader is no longer being used. It seems not to work well on newer PCs and has nothing to do with Wesp's patch whatsoever.


* This is typically encountered in the Sewer section of the game.



Wesp - maybe you could include this as an optional fix somehow in your patch?!

[Servile_Misanthrope]

Thanks for taking the time to respond, Wesp5.

I fired up my earliest save and went to the beach. First time speaking to Copper, my Persuasion is 2, and no dialog options to sell him the stake (even though it was in my possession). Which, ya know, when I think of it, shouldn't the stake be findable BEFORE getting to the beach? You could totally blow through conversations with all of the peeps there without venturing down to the pier and finding the stake. Or the gum, which I can't even remember where I found that, but even once I had it the dialog option never materialized.

I would also mention that I bumped persuasion throughout the game. By the time I made it to Downtown it was 5, Hollywood it was 7, end of game it was 9.

I honestly thought Rosa needed alot more than $20.

The Heather thing happened early game. She left before I had tackled Hollywood, which was not my experience in previous playthroughs.

There is a quest you can get, though I didn't - so it's probably my fault for choosing the wrong responses, where after you save the vampire held by Randall in the clinic - you can find a girl at one of the clubs who is looking for a "real" party and you can send her to the clinic and Randall will turn her into the new blood doll. I know I've done it in at least one of my previous playthroughs.

Finding the guard in the Skyline apartment lobby face down dead was hysterical. I was like "WTF..." ...I assume he partied too hard.

It's possible I did get 1 xp from the magazine quest. I was nice to Imalia. Though, it's possible i didn't - I may have suggested exfoliating to her once. I was otherwise nice to her.

What about lockpicking atms, vending machines, arcade machines, and payphones for cash?

Loading up and putting G.Regent_Family in console returns with a value of 0. I would like to reiterate that when I played I was NICE to everybody and I did ALL known quests. I was never upgraded a haven.

Is it possible to reskin the face of the grandfather clock so you cannot see the pendulum stuck to one side?

Regarding the Lacroix texture/brown mark: When in dialog with Beckett, for instance, you see the wall behind him which has a repeating texture that wraps the room. There is an anomolous brown mark on the lower right (as you face it) side that is distracting. Replacing it with the predominant surrounding color would eliminate it. I can provide a screenshot, if you like.

There are cubicles in the Ventrue building when you have to make your way up the tower late game that have flourescent lights. You can turn those lights on and off. They look the same as the flourescent lights in the library.

I know there are conversions of models from Bloodlines to Redemption; is it possible someone on Planetvampire could provide the skill to make/convert models for bands, etc.??

What about replacing heavy weapon guns in-game to be handgun variants (silenced? hallow points? etc.) ???

Thanks again.

[Servile_Misanthrope]

Thanks, 3xA'Lu©κy. Though I prefer the issue I have to not having water. My water issue is worst in the Nosferatu warrens. I've looked online and found some have experienced other oddities with the water.

[-3xA'Lu©κy the disappearing act]

Originally posted by Osama_Bin_Layin_Your_Mom:

Thanks, 3xA'Lu©κy. Though I prefer the issue I have to not having water. My water issue is worst in the Nosferatu warrens. I've looked online and found some have experienced other oddities with the water.

No no... you still have water :) The sound effects and splashing are still there :>

Just the animation/reflection of water is disabled with the process I showed you. And yeah -- it gets really bad in the Nosferatu warrens from what I remember.

[Wesp5]

Originally posted by -3xA'Lu©κy:

Wesp - maybe you could include this as an optional fix somehow in your patch?!

Doesn't this remove the water completely? I won't do this. Rather bad water than no water ;)!

[Wesp5]

Originally posted by Osama_Bin_Layin_Your_Mom:

First time speaking to Copper, my Persuasion is 2, and no dialog options to sell him the stake (even though it was in my possession).

That is correct, you need at least Persuasion 3.

You could totally blow through conversations with all of the peeps there without venturing down to the pier and finding the stake.

You can always talk about the items later too.

What about lockpicking atms, vending machines, arcade machines, and payphones for cash?

Some of this would work, you can already open the ATM machine in the Sin Bin. But I still don't know why I should do this. There is cash enough in the game already...

Loading up and putting G.Regent_Family in console returns with a value of 0.

Then you must have done or said something wrong. Are you of clan Tremere?

Is it possible to reskin the face of the grandfather clock so you cannot see the pendulum stuck to one side?

Done! The pendulum and everything inside was just off-center.

I can provide a screenshot, if you like.

Please do, I don't know what you mean.

There are cubicles in the Ventrue building when you have to make your way up the tower late game that have flourescent lights. You can turn those lights on and off.

I know, but this is different and not synched to the light flickering. Also I don't have flickering lights in the library anyway, except for when you enter it from the sewer.

I know there are conversions of models from Bloodlines to Redemption; is it possible someone on Planetvampire could provide the skill to make/convert models for bands, etc.??

Sadly model editing is the one thing that is very limited in Bloodlines...

What about replacing heavy weapon guns in-game to be handgun variants (silenced?)

...and while new weapon models can be done, old weapons need to be replaced!

[Servile_Misanthrope]

I found a way to fix the water issue in the Nosferatu warrens without altering the quality by adding this to the autoexec.cfg: r_waterenableculling "1"

...maybe that could be added to the next patch? The water in the sewers still has issues in first-person, but in third-person it looks fine.

The (flourescent) lights above the bookshelves in the library flicker - at least the bookshelves do. There are flickering flourescent lights in the Nosferatu warrens, but the model themselves don't change as they flicker either. I guess a modeler would be needed to change them to do so.

I was playing as Tremere, yes. I think I rushed to deal with the gargoyle without first consulting Strauss. If so, my bad.

I know there is enough cash in the game, but I was thinking - you don't pay for the cab driver to drive you around, and you don't pay a cover charge to go into the clubs, but maybe you should. That would add a bit of realism, more concern for cash, and even a reason to want to break into atms and such. Just a thought.

Speaking of cash... I think you should have to pay to make a criminal violation go away. When the cops go hunting for you for a ciminal violation, I think even after they call off the hunt there should be a danger that cops will be looking for you. So, for instance, you have a criminal violation - you run and hide, the cops call off the hunt. You creep out of your hiding spot and go strolling down the street only to run into a cop who begins another hunt for you because the violation stands. The only way to make it go away would be to pay someone, like Mercurio, to make it go away. Just a thought.

I'm probably alone on the heavy-weapons thing anyway, but it's the one thing that really bugs me about the game. That and the fact there are no stealth weapons (no tranquilizer dart guns or silenced weapons). There is the crossbow, but even that sends AI on alert when fired, which I don't understand.

I know there are no animations for carrying bodies, or probably even AI alerts for finding bodies, but if a body could be made permanent and interactable then it could be picked up and set in down in the manner that other inventory items are. While carrying the body you could suffer a penalty to movement. If a body is discovered the AI goes nuts - calls for backup (maybe calls the cops). Just ideas. I like the concept alot.

Anyway, thanks for "listening", Wesp5.

[Wesp5]

Originally posted by Osama_Bin_Layin_Your_Mom:

I found a way to fix the water issue in the Nosferatu warrens without altering the quality by adding this to the autoexec.cfg: r_waterenableculling "1"

Thanks, I'll add that in the next patch update. The sewers look fine for me right now!

The (flourescent) lights above the bookshelves in the library flicker - at least the bookshelves do.

Ah, they flicker because of the custom made shelf model itself.

The only way to make it go away would be to pay someone, like Mercurio, to make it go away.

Hm, I like it better as it is right now. Also you would need a contact on each hub then...

There is the crossbow, but even that sends AI on alert when fired, which I don't understand.

It shouldn't if you are far enough away. Unless you mean others seeing the body falling.

I know there are no animations for carrying bodies, or probably even AI alerts for finding bodies, but if a body could be made permanent and interactable then it could be picked up and set in down in the manner that other inventory items are. While carrying the body you could suffer a penalty to movement. If a body is discovered the AI goes nuts - calls for backup (maybe calls the cops). Just ideas. I like the concept alot.

I like the idea too, but I can find no way to pull this off :(!

[Servile_Misanthrope]

Hey, Wesp5, I'm playing a new game as a Malkavian. I was thinking... would it be possible to add visual hallucinations to Malkavians? I don't know... maybe occasionally, or when you start to hear voices, the screen also gets wobbly or sprites of twisted faces could float about or the FOV changes wildly or something. Or maybe normal people occasionally look like zombies or ghosts or something.

What do you think about having to pay for taxi rides and cover fees for the clubs?

I also think humanity loss should be greater. I can run around killing everyone in downtown and after a few kills, humanity loss just stops - no matter how many I kill. Honestly, I think a kine kill should cost two humanity points. If I do a quest that causes me to suffer humanity loss - maybe it could cost two points, as well. I can't recall ever frenzying because of my humanity level.

Masquerade violations are another thing that bugs me. I've never had more than 2, possibly 3, Masquerade violations, and because you get redemptions, I've never had to be concerned with Hunters.

I've been thinking about the Fu Syndicate when they have you in the UV lamp room - I think the UV light should do something; maybe drain your blood or stamina a little bit.

The Sabbat are supposed to be pissed at the player, but except for that one scene after the warehouse, they never come looking for the player. I think it'd be cool to have Sabbat assassins try to corner you in places. For instance, a great place for the Sabbat to come en force at the player would be the parking garage mission. After the mission is over - all the gang members are dead... what if as you head back up you find packs of Sabbat? ...or maybe you could randomly run into them in alleyways and sewers?

[-3xA'Lu©κy the disappearing act]

Originally posted by Osama_Bin_Layin_Your_Mom:

Hey, Wesp5, I'm playing a new game as a Malkavian. I was thinking... would it be possible to add visual hallucinations to Malkavians? I don't know... maybe occasionally, or when you start to hear voices, the screen also gets wobbly or sprites of twisted faces could float about or the FOV changes wildly or something. Or maybe normal people occasionally look like zombies or ghosts or something.

What do you think about having to pay for taxi rides and cover fees for the clubs?

I also think humanity loss should be greater. I can run around killing everyone in downtown and after a few kills, humanity loss just stops - no matter how many I kill. Honestly, I think a kine kill should cost two humanity points. If I do a quest that causes me to suffer humanity loss - maybe it could cost two points, as well. I can't recall ever frenzying because of my humanity level.

Masquerade violations are another thing that bugs me. I've never had more than 2, possibly 3, Masquerade violations, and because you get redemptions, I've never had to be concerned with Hunters.

I've been thinking about the Fu Syndicate when they have you in the UV lamp room - I think the UV light should do something; maybe drain your blood or stamina a little bit.

The Sabbat are supposed to be pissed at the player, but except for that one scene after the warehouse, they never come looking for the player. I think it'd be cool to have Sabbat assassins try to corner you in places. For instance, a great place for the Sabbat to come en force at the player would be the parking garage mission. After the mission is over - all the gang members are dead... what if as you head back up you find packs of Sabbat? ...or maybe you could randomly run into them in alleyways and sewers?

All of those are great ideas but would be more suited for a mod other than Wesp's patch.

Then again, I'm not entirely sure what Wesp's policy is on adding things that the game originally didn't have (the only thing he added that was not in the game or can't be found in the game files was the Sabbat ending AFAIK).

[Wesp5]

Originally posted by Osama_Bin_Layin_Your_Mom:

I was thinking... would it be possible to add visual hallucinations to Malkavians?

While this would be possible on principle, as 3x4Lu@ky already wrote, there are no hints for that in the game files so this would mean leaving patch territory even for the plus patch. Besides that there are no effects or graphics for that and it would need a lot of work too...

What do you think about having to pay for taxi rides and cover fees for the clubs?

Again, there are no dialogues for this and the cabbie driver is surely driving you for free :)'!

I can run around killing everyone in downtown and after a few kills, humanity loss just stops - no matter how many I kill.

This is a condition of th PnP game on which Bloodlines is based. Normal killing can't get your Humanity down completely, also when it gets down to zero, you loose all control.

I've never had to be concerned with Hunters.

I never tested this out but at high masquerade violations hunter should appear in the hubs!

I've been thinking about the Fu Syndicate when they have you in the UV lamp room - I think the UV light should do something; maybe drain your blood or stamina a little bit.

I think this too is a rule from the PnP game.

I think it'd be cool to have Sabbat assassins try to corner you in places.

Why should the Sabbat kill the player? I already added some more encounters which show that they observe you and finally you can even join them in the plus patch :)!

[Meteor]

Jesus christ man, that ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥ name, my sides are in orbit. lol