Lets discuss plot holes

[Bloodartist]

So, anyone noticed plot holes that grind their nerves? How would you fix them?

I'll start off with Mr. Mercurio: he is beaten badly at the start of the game, why wouldn't the player give his blood to Mercurio? Mercurio is even kind person and explains how it works. Giving him a little would have nothing but advantages. It would heal him, and make him like you, possibly give a discount. He can't even be bloodbound since he is already a ghoul..

[Touch of Oblivion]

And your last sentence provides the reason you can't give him blood. Ghouls are the property(literally) of the vampire who bound them. Another vampire giving him blood is a violation of said property. Vampire blood is addictive. Think of it like this...Mercurio is a heroin addict and LaCroix is his dealer. If another dealer steps in to provide Mercurio with drugs, LaCroix is going to feel his territory is being infringed upon. Plus from an older vamp like LaCroix's standpoint, if Mercurio got his ass beat he failed at his task and was justly punished for it with lasting pain.

[Bloodartist]

a.) the player doesnt know these things since he is "straight off the bus"
b.) as per VtM rules Mercurio cannot become addicted to players blood since there can be only one blood bond in effect at a time. And since he says "I am almost 60", I can hypothesize he is at the highest level blood bond already. So the only thing that remains is the healing factor.

[Touch of Oblivion]

Początkowo opublikowane przez Bloodartist:

a.) the player doesnt know these things since he is "straight off the bus"
b.) as per VtM rules Mercurio cannot become addicted to players blood since there can be only one blood bond in effect at a time. And since he says "I am almost 60", I can hypothesize he is at the highest level blood bond already. So the only thing that remains is the healing factor.

In regards to A: There's a lot of things you shouldn't know fresh off the bus that you somehow do without any tutorials or anything beyonds the few things Jack helps you learn early. Like no one explains in depth how to make a ghoul, yet you just magically do it to Heather.

In regards to B) It's not a matter of overruling the Prince's blood bond. It's a matter of giving an addict who is a slave his drug without the permission of his owner. And even if your character doesn't know that particular piece of etiquette...would you really mess around with anyone or anything belonging to a Prince? I sure wouldn't.

[Bloodartist]

Actually Knox tells you about ghouls in front of the hospital. Mercurio as well, at least enough to make you realize what you can do to Heather.

[Nyrreah]

AFAIK you can have more than one bloodbound. just you only can have one of level 3, but level 1 and 2, any number of them.

[Oberon]

Początkowo opublikowane przez Touch Of Oblivion:

Początkowo opublikowane przez Bloodartist:

a.) the player doesnt know these things since he is "straight off the bus"
b.) as per VtM rules Mercurio cannot become addicted to players blood since there can be only one blood bond in effect at a time. And since he says "I am almost 60", I can hypothesize he is at the highest level blood bond already. So the only thing that remains is the healing factor.

In regards to A: There's a lot of things you shouldn't know fresh off the bus that you somehow do without any tutorials or anything beyonds the few things Jack helps you learn early. Like no one explains in depth how to make a ghoul, yet you just magically do it to Heather.

No character properly explains Disciplines, either.

As for why you can't give Mercurio blood...he never asked for any. It's not like he needs it, anyway. Plus, Vampire blood wouldn't have fixed him up on the spot anyway, it takes time to work, whether you'd been fed some or if you're full of the stuff.

[wewak]

There are lots of things I don't understand about this game (sorry if I'm going a bit off topic):

They say (in one of those loading screen info boxes) that you can't feed on other vampires' blood, but do vampires have blood in them? I thought they were pale not only because they are undead and don't like sunlight, but also due to lack of blood. At least non-clogged blood.

When they feed on other people's blood I assume they retain some sort of vital essence from it (a "spiritual digestion"), right? But then what happens to the actual physical blood? Do they piss or ♥♥♥♥ it out of their bodies? If so, how if they don't have body functions? Or the blood they feed on just magically find its way to their non-functional circulatory system?

If a vampire gets beat up to death or is shot down what is exactly the causa mortis?

[Touch of Oblivion]

Początkowo opublikowane przez arabesque:

There are lots of things I don't understand about this game (sorry if I'm going a bit off topic):

They say (in one of those loading screen info boxes) that you can't feed on other vampires' blood, but do vampires have blood in them? I thought they were pale not only because they are undead and don't like sunlight, but also due to lack of blood. At least non-clogged blood.

When they feed on other people's blood I assume they retain some sort of vital essence from it (a "spiritual digestion"), right? But then what happens to the actual physical blood? Do they piss or ♥♥♥♥ it out of their bodies? If so, how if they don't have body functions? Or the blood they feed on just magically find its way to their non-functional circulatory system?

If a vampire gets beat up to death or is shot down what is exactly the causa mortis?

As far as I can recall, the vamps do have blood in them. It's not coagulated like you'd find in a corpse or a zombie, but it doesn't flow like ours does. If they get cut the blood would flow very, very slowly, like molasses. This means they don't lose too much from something like a small cut as it would heal rapidly. Vampires can feed on each other's blood(some elders iirc have to, or at least prefer to, but that might be a Vampire the Requiem thing I'm thinking of) but as the stuff is addictive and they can blood bind each other it's generally a bad idea.

In regards to what happens to the human blood they feed on, I believe it's stored in the stomach or the heart(don't ask me how it gets there if that's correct, idk) and basically using their Disciplines and things like Blush of LIfe, Blood Buff, and enhanced healing(Blood Heal) "consumes" the power/life essence of some fo the blood. A mechanic from the pen and paper game that VtMB does not have is waking up every night used up one blood point, so over time their body converts the human blood into vampire Vitae(what they call their blood), hence their eternal need to feed at least every couple or three nights.

[Bloodartist]

Początkowo opublikowane przez Big Chief Devil Hawk Fireball:

As for why you can't give Mercurio blood...he never asked for any. It's not like he needs it, anyway. Plus, Vampire blood wouldn't have fixed him up on the spot anyway, it takes time to work, whether you'd been fed some or if you're full of the stuff.

It takes time to work.. just like with Heather... about 10 seconds, tops. I am not convinced with the counterarguments really.

Początkowo opublikowane przez Touch Of Oblivion:

They say (in one of those loading screen info boxes) that you can't feed on other vampires' blood, but do vampires have blood in them? I thought they were pale not only because they are undead and don't like sunlight, but also due to lack of blood. At least non-clogged blood.

Yes, vampires DO have blood. In fact, one could argue that they are nothing BUT blood (Andrei provides a great example later in the game when he uses the vicissitude ability Bloodform and essentially turns into a moving pool of blood and reforms later). Vampires are essentially corpses that are animated by the vampiric blood.

As for feeding on other vampires, the issue is twofold. One, if you drink another vampires blood but do not kill them, you will be under blood bond to the vampire you fed from (certain exceptions exist) . The other possibility that you continue feeding until you commit diablerie which is a heinous crime punishable by blood hunt in Camarilla (essentially drinking not only all their blood but also their soul). Diablerie causes final death of the vampire it is performed on. (It is what LaCroix was going to do with the "sleeping ancient"). Both of these options have their (rather large) disadvantages.

[Nyrreah]

Where it says Heather heals on 10 seconds? I understood she even loses consciousnes (and you take the chance to dissapear) while she assimiles the blood...

[Oberon]

Początkowo opublikowane przez Nyrreah:

Where it says Heather heals on 10 seconds? I understood she even loses consciousnes (and you take the chance to dissapear) while she assimiles the blood...

Yeah, we see her pass out, but they never actually say how long it took for her to get back up.

[Meteor]

Isn't the quest for Mercurio just getting him painkillers? If I remember correctly he tells you that him being a ghoul will make him heal, he just needs medicine for the pain, which makes it useless for the player to give him blood since it won't do anything for him.

[Nyrreah]

Początkowo opublikowane przez Big Chief Devil Hawk Fireball:

Początkowo opublikowane przez Nyrreah:

Where it says Heather heals on 10 seconds? I understood she even loses consciousnes (and you take the chance to dissapear) while she assimiles the blood...

Yeah, we see her pass out, but they never actually say how long it took for her to get back up.

Exactly, can be 10 seconds or a day.

[Touch of Oblivion]

Początkowo opublikowane przez ScrubZlayer:

Isn't the quest for Mercurio just getting him painkillers? If I remember correctly he tells you that him being a ghoul will make him heal, he just needs medicine for the pain, which makes it useless for the player to give him blood since it won't do anything for him.

Giving him more Vitae would've helped speed his healing. In the pen and paper game ghouls can only hold so much vampire blood inside them like how in VtMB we have a blood pool. A ghoul's is just much, much smaller so they have to be careful how they choose to use it.

[wewak]

Początkowo opublikowane przez Touch Of Oblivion:

As far as I can recall, the vamps do have blood in them. It's not coagulated like you'd find in a corpse or a zombie, but it doesn't flow like ours does. If they get cut the blood would flow very, very slowly, like molasses. This means they don't lose too much from something like a small cut as it would heal rapidly. Vampires can feed on each other's blood(some elders iirc have to, or at least prefer to, but that might be a Vampire the Requiem thing I'm thinking of) but as the stuff is addictive and they can blood bind each other it's generally a bad idea.

In regards to what happens to the human blood they feed on, I believe it's stored in the stomach or the heart(don't ask me how it gets there if that's correct, idk) and basically using their Disciplines and things like Blush of LIfe, Blood Buff, and enhanced healing(Blood Heal) "consumes" the power/life essence of some fo the blood. A mechanic from the pen and paper game that VtMB does not have is waking up every night used up one blood point, so over time their body converts the human blood into vampire Vitae(what they call their blood), hence their eternal need to feed at least every couple or three nights.

Początkowo opublikowane przez Bloodartist:

Yes, vampires DO have blood. In fact, one could argue that they are nothing BUT blood (Andrei provides a great example later in the game when he uses the vicissitude ability Bloodform and essentially turns into a moving pool of blood and reforms later). Vampires are essentially corpses that are animated by the vampiric blood.

As for feeding on other vampires, the issue is twofold. One, if you drink another vampires blood but do not kill them, you will be under blood bond to the vampire you fed from (certain exceptions exist) . The other possibility that you continue feeding until you commit diablerie which is a heinous crime punishable by blood hunt in Camarilla (essentially drinking not only all their blood but also their soul). Diablerie causes final death of the vampire it is performed on. (It is what LaCroix was going to do with the "sleeping ancient"). Both of these options have their (rather large) disadvantages.

Thanks for the replies even though they raised even more questions in my mind.

On a side note: Wow! Lots of people breaking the masquerade in this thread. Way to go, Guys!

Anyone in need of a sexy female ghoul please hit me up (Not taking Malks or Nosferatus).