What are the most useful stats/skills and most useless?

[Lūna Sanguināria]

I want to somewhat maximize my xp expenditure in this game. I have played tabletop for years but I know abilities, etc in a comp game can be different. So what are good things to level up and what is a total waste?

[Touch of Oblivion]

Well I'd say depending on Clan Brawl is essential. It's worth getting up to at least 3 regardless of Clan since that does make feeding on enemies easier(like doing a grapple roll in tabletop). If you're not playing a Clan like Gangrel where Brawl is the primary form of melee, I'd also max out Melee. Get it to 3 asap and level it to 4 when you have some XP to spare. There's a training manual somewhere in the game(idr where) that gives you +1 to Melee skill in the game so paying for Melee 5 is pointless.

The Persuasion and Seduction feats are both useful skills but having them at a 2-4 in early game is fine. When you start doing stuff in Downtown I'd get Pers to 4-5 and when you're in Hollywood raise it more. This is all if you're doing a socially apt character.

THe skills I find most useful overall are Haggle(Finance), Research feat, Brawl, Melee, Firearms if you're PC isn't a tanky type, Persuasion feat, Seduction feat...and...I think that's it for the super vital skills. Not counting Disciplines of course.

[VioletShadow]

I'd concentrate on only one, either seduction, persuasion or intimidation. I agree on the brawl/melee because, unfortunately, this game is bait n switch type meaning stealth is very useful for the first half of the game but after that it's useless.

[Vinz]

Yeah as above, Persuasion>Seduction>Initimidation.
You also get special dialogues sometimes with Dominate/Dementate [up it to level 2 when you are in downtown, and 3 when in hollywood]

As for disciplines: Potence is godlike for Melee

[Bloodartist]

high security and hacking feats are insanely useful for doing all the sidequests and getting shortcuts on the main storyline. Also keep in mind that you can temporarily increase your lockpick ability by using bloodbuff and/or swapping heavy clothing to a lighter one (if youre using the higher tier clothes that give you +armor and -dexterity). Also activating auspex gives you bonus for hacking.

Stealth helps too. I wouldnt say that stealth is completely useless in the endgame, but it IS useless in bossfights. And there are some really difficult bossfights in the endgame, that basically force you to have at least mediocre skills in combat (you cannot go thru the game just by talking). Haggling is ok if you rely on your guns, as you get cheaper ammo/guns/blood.

For combat, I agree on brawl being useful whenever you fight in a way where you want to feed during combat. This is very useful in all NON-boss fights. Boss fights generally dont have any humans around to feed from, but in all the other fights brawl can become useful. If youre gangrel, you will probably fight with the claws so brawl helps there.

Which combat-related stats you want to maximize generally depends on whether you want to fight with melee or with ranged (guns). The benefit of melee is that your sword never runs out of ammo. Guns however let you kite and stay out of melee, and some enemies hit pretty hard, particularly in boss fights. On the other hand, if you rely on guns and run out of ammo during a boss fight, youre kinda screwed. Not likely to happen but still.

I would recommend concentrating on either melee, or ranged. You will only have so many points and you may want to put points in some high-level disciplines too. Some of them are pretty useful. If youre melee, you will want higher strength. Ranged will want higher perception. Both want to put points in stamina, wits and whatever the third defense-related stat was. If you are not planning to rely on guns, perception comes kinda pointless.

As for seduction/persuasion/intimidation, you dont need all 3 ever. Persuasion is probably the most useful out of these. Intimidation is probably useless since I dont remember a single case where you could achieve something with it that you couldnt with persuasion/seduction. Seduction lets you win some convos and lets you seduce blood dolls at nightclubs. There is at least one in every area(Santa Monica has technically 2. The chinatown one is nearly impossible to seduce unless you go all out on seduction). Having at least one blood doll around is useful for stealthy refills after big fights.

Also keep in mind that some disciplines let you win conversations where you might otherwise need persuasion/seduction/intimidation. Namely presence, dominate and iirc dementation.

Research is some kind of min-maxers thing, since reading skillbooks never gets you anything that wouldnt be available just by putting points in those skills, and there is a fixed number of skillbooks. But Im not sure whats the most efficient way of combining research+books with just putting xp points to the skills yourself.

Oh and the flat-out best combat discipline is imo celerity. Not only can you bloody dodge bullets if youre good, hitting opponent 3 times when he has chance to hit you once, is VERY strong. Particularly in bossfights.

[Vinz]

True! Also the Defense feat at high level [let's say 7+] is really awesome.
Wits and Dodge to increase Defense!
You dodge almost everything, from bullets to melee attacks.

[Touch of Oblivion]

Research isn't for the books. The books are based off the skill they teach. A Melee book might say you need Melee 3 to read it. Research is for the occult powerup items you find in the game. Most of them have some minimum level of Research you need to have to be able to get benefits from them.

[n1x0r]

Offense:
- Unarmed 1-2 points + 1-2 points in strength for all = Better chance to feed on enemies midcombat, very usefull if you do not have any "trance" spell. If you do have such, you can 'trance'->Feed and not take as many points in unarmed (brawl + strength). Max it if you have protean.
- Melee vs ranged 5/5 if main. Melee is strong early-mid game. Ranged is strong mid-game late. I would consider ranged if you have auspex. As a value on 11 makes the crosshair always centered, even when jumping... and increases your damage to max. Melee if you have potence, as that makes melee strong.
- (Consider strength vs brawl cost or similar perception vs ...)
- Pick only 1 of the 3 offensive methods. Even if you have thaumaturgy.
- Even if you have auspex and no potence, melee is still fine. Ranged is just extra strong if you have auspex, melee is still strong without potence. Just do not max all of them. Doing so will leave you without protection later in the game when feeding will not be enough.

Protection:
- Defense: Avoid taking damage from any souce. Defense is what you should dump your points into once you feel like you have what you need, but not before that. It is your primary form of protection mid-late game. (consider wits vs defense cost)
- Soak bashing: From stamina or armor. This is decent. A early point in stamina is very worthwhile. A third when you feel like it. Do not go much further, defense should be the primary or you will have a bad time versus supernatural beings. Keep your armor up to date.

Miscellaneous:
- Lockpicking. Pretty good! Do not go overkill through. 2 in dexterity and 2-3 in lockpicking is the magic number, there shouldn't be many doors you need it for after this.
- Research. First playthrough... hard to say. If you find a book it is worth getting 2 research. But I would not sweat it. If you get high research and find a book for something you arleady have, you are going to get slightly annoyed. So research if the points spent in research is less than what the points spent purchasing the stats otherwise would have cost. Otherwise leave research alone.
Research is also needed for certain items you may find around the game (after plus+ patch 8.7). I do not know the magic number here, however, if you do not find these then research will not have helped you much. If you do want research, then 6 is plenty for most books + most occult items.
- Persuasion. Persuasion is nice if you do not have presence, dementation or domination. Which most classes will have. Get one of these 4 solutions and leave it at that. If you get persuasion, 5-6 is the magic number.

Stats I consider less important:
- Intimidation: 2-3 is alright for the beginning of the game to get a few hundred bucks. But really, not worth it.
- Seduction. If you play as a woman it is alright, but even then persuasion is just better.
- Hacking. Passwords are always the same. If you want to, you can check out a password-only guide and save the points. Otherwise, this is needed as much as lockpoicking (6~)
- Haggle. It's FINE. But really, nothing I would spent points on. You will have enough money to buy armor, weapons, ammunition, etc. especially if you are melee. Haggle if you always want the newest weapons without finding them and in that case, 3-4 is plenty.
- Inspection. Many say it is not as important, well... It is hard to say. "Explore more" will not always allow you to find that "1x1 pixel ring". But then again... leave it. You get inspection on your malkavian playthrough later and after that you will know the locations :)
- Stealth. It will be good for 2~ quests, but it is really not worth it. Obsfucate 'overrides' it and other classes should just brute force these quests.

Disciplines:
Animalism 1/5: Level 1 is what you need. Level 2 if you play standard patch (non+) as beetles are amazing if you can spam them.
Auspex 5/5: Good if you are going ranged. Level 5 is pretty nice for +3 defense & ranged. But do not rush it. (consider auspex cost vs stat cost)
Celerity 5/5: High blood upkeep, but it gives good offense and defense. Althrough celerity is nothing if you still have 1 unarmed, 1 melee and 1 ranged. You need offense to take advantage of speed boost. Get celerity towards the endgame instead of your defense, if you go this route.
Dementation 1/5, 3/5 or 5/5. I would leave it at 1/5, hysteria > Feed is what you want from this, but not taking this would mean you miss out on some really funny abilities. And, it can easily substitute persuasion. (3/5 in non+ patch)
Dominate 2/5. Brainwipe and Trance are both quite good. Maybe 3 or 4/5 if you want the abilities and do not have persuasion.
Fortitude 5/5. This gives soaking to aggrevated as well as bash. If you have fortitude, consider maxing it before you get defense, after your offense.
Obfuscate: 2/5. level 2 is what you need for quests. 5/5 will make any kind of humanoid battles really fun. Fun like a cake party where you eat yourself fat with no parents around to say anything to you. (5/5 is overkill)
Potence 5/5. Max potence after getting a few points in melee and strength.
Presence 1/5. Less important. While it can be used for conversations and battles. The 'worth' per point is not as much as other abilities. Consider this if you really have nothing else (after defense) or if you do not want persuasion and do not have dominate/dementation.
Protean. 5/5. Gangrel is good! Unarmed, fortitude, protean, defense and you will be a immortal machine. The best part of protean is, you will be doing aggrevated damage. Which means other supernatural beings will be sliced like butter. At least 2/5!
Thaumaturgy 3/5. Bloodshield is pretty good and so is purge. A shame plus+ patch added the hand animations, but I guess this was overpowered before.

Example build:
Gangrel:
2 dexterity, 1 security.
Consider if you want persuasion or not. A few points if you want
Increase strength together with brawl for cheapest (to 3 each)
2 protean
3 security
Max protean
Strength and brawl to 4
Max fortitude
Increase wits and defense to 3-4 each
Max strength and brawl
Max defense

... and use a guide for passwords^^ (otherwise just get wits a little earlier and 1 point in hacking)

To be honest... There are many 'free points' AND books which one could take use of and many hidden 'occult' items. But any such... well... I would only be spoiling the game. Just leave them for now and do not cry over spilled milk :) As long as you have 5-6 lockpicking, there will not be a 'main quest' area you can't get through with proper combat abilities.

[Bloodartist]

Originally posted by Touch Of Oblivion:

Research is for the occult powerup items you find in the game. Most of them have some minimum level of Research you need to have to be able to get benefits from them.

I believe this was put in the unofficial patches though? So in the original game the occult powerups always work.

I guess it makes sense since usefulness of research was questionable without.

[Touch of Oblivion]

Originally posted by Bloodartist:

Originally posted by Touch Of Oblivion:

Research is for the occult powerup items you find in the game. Most of them have some minimum level of Research you need to have to be able to get benefits from them.

I believe this was put in the unofficial patches though? So in the original game the occult powerups always work.

I guess it makes sense since usefulness of research was questionable without.

If that is an addition of the UPs, I like it since as you said without that there was literally no reason to get Research points. I don't think anything else in the game besides the Occult Items needs it.

[Anvos]

Fairly sure most books do have a minium research skill level along with thier specific skill requirements.

[Bloodartist]

There WAS a reason, since you couldn't read the skill books without necessary research level, but I just found it questionable.

The problem was that there wasn't that many books and they only influenced certain skills and at certain skill level. You could get "this book is below your skill level and has no use". This meant that you had to put points in research basically in certain order and at specific points in the game. Putting several points in research (so you could use one of the very few higher level skillbooks) was even more questionable when compared to putting points in the original skill itself. There is probably a min-maxing way of putting points in both research and normal skills so you come ahead a little bit, but quite frankly, I just couldn't be bothered.

[Wesp5]

You always needed Research for books and the UP added it for the occult items, because we can't restore the Occult stat originally planned for this. And I liked the funny answers if you check an item and your Research stat is not high enough :)!

[Touch of Oblivion]

Originally posted by wesp5:

You always needed Research for books and the UP added it for the occult items, because we can't restore the Occult stat originally planned for this. And I liked the funny answers if you check an item and your Research stat is not high enough :)!

I guess I just got lucky in my two times playing the game then. I usually put dots in Research slowly over time so I've always either been able to use the books right after finding them or been told the skill the book is for isn't high enough yet lol. My bad!

[__-__-__]

Stealth can get you a few extra points in the early game, many early quests grant you extra XP if you can get to your objective undetected, and later there are a few quests where getting seen results in outright failure (at least I think so, I've never been caught so I don't actually know). The game seems to give enough XP that, as long as you have the basics covered, you can learn whatever else you wish.

[__-__-__]

Main thing I forgot to mention in my earlier post, never purchase ranks in humanity, there is plenty to be had that it's a waste of xp.